Why is the snooker stance different?
- Thread starter Bambu
- Start date
A very good question. I can shoot better using a snooker stance but my back hurts like hell after 5 minuteds of playing this way.
Personally, I will venture out and say that the follow through has a much better chance of being straight as this stance restricts where the arm goes.
It places dominant eye over cue with less neck twisting, and allows you to use standard stance when up against table.
The stance is different because of the difference in table sizes. When one foot is behind the other less reach is available. Anyone who plays all the time on a 12 foot table will adopt the open stance.
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I think that with the chin in actual contact with the cue, it serves as a part of the bridge. Also, the long view down an unobstructed shaft seems to serve as an aiming device. There is no doubt IMHO that the top 16 snooker players have near identical stances, strokes and table mechanics. (Ronnie O'Sullivan excepted.) Also not in question is their uncanny ability to pocket balls. Other valid reasons have been mentioned in previous posts, sorry if I duplicated anything.
When done properly (a critical element to this discussion) the snooker stance is the finest way to maintain a positive & consistent alingment over the CB. Your arm will "lock in" & your follow-thru is constrained to a straight line. Once you feel that sensation, no other stance is needed. Sighting of the CB is unparalleled. Also, your cue will now have 4 points of contact with your body: grip hand, side of chest, chin, & bridge hand.
None of this is true of the pool stance(s) I've employed over the years. I always felt like my shooting arm was just dangling out there (sometimes tucked behind my back) & subject to wobbling around on the follow-through. Consistency was poor. Every day I played I was hoping against hope that I "caught a stroke". My cue only had 2-3 points of contact with the cue: grip hand, (sometimes my chin) & bridge hand.
Also, if your back hurts after 5 minutes, you are doing it wrong. Experiment until the pain is relieved.
None of this is true of the pool stance(s) I've employed over the years. I always felt like my shooting arm was just dangling out there (sometimes tucked behind my back) & subject to wobbling around on the follow-through. Consistency was poor. Every day I played I was hoping against hope that I "caught a stroke". My cue only had 2-3 points of contact with the cue: grip hand, (sometimes my chin) & bridge hand.
Also, if your back hurts after 5 minutes, you are doing it wrong. Experiment until the pain is relieved.
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As an open stance guy I like this post. I've converted over to the snooker stance as best as I can. What I have a hard time with is getting the cue to contact my chest. I've chalked that up to over 30 years of poor posture, the table being a little bit shorter, and being thin.
The one thing that I think I realized on my own about the snooker stance, or to be more accurate - an open stance in general, is the way that your grip hand is positioned when you are just standing idle and facing the table. With the open stance your grip hand is in the perfect state for stroking a cue. If you don't believe me stand that way for a second and look down at your hand. Now with the closed stance, there are several different things that you must do to get your grip hand into the proper stroking position (turn hips and even shoulder a bit).
The one thing that I was always tinkering around with was the position of the wrist on my grip hand. I would turn it in....and out.....and shake it all about, whatever it took to attempt to stroke straighter. I don't do any of that anymore. I just observed the natural state of my wrist while standing and tried my best to keep it in that state while shooting. The open stance helped me tremendously with this and I am no longer curling or pronating my wrist at all.
Maybe I'm crazy but I've found the open stance to be sooo much better when it comes to getting your body into the proper line.
Correct answer.
I think if you study the great Joe Davis
(and Walter Lindrum who played on the same size equipment for English Billiards) and you'll have a piece of the answer.
Freddie <~~~ loves to actually pay attention
One thing to note, the feet may be more square to the table in the snooker stance, but the hips & shoulders are still turned. It's a bit of a misnomer to call the snooker stance "open" (to imply hips & shoulders are open to the table). This hip/shoulder rotation locks the upper body in place & makes for a very solid feeling. This is why you often see Alison sort of step out of her stance after the shot...she's locked in!
These photos will tell you a lot.
I'm not picking on these people, they are just random photos found on pool sites that tout them as "propoer stance" for pool.
These photos will tell you a lot.
I'm not picking on these people, they are just random photos found on pool sites that tout them as "propoer stance" for pool.
FYI, here is some info from my snooker stance resource page:
A classical snooker stance is described and demonstrated here: snooker stance. A pool stance is described and demonstrated here: pool stance (see more info on the stance "best practices" resource page).
A snooker stance is more "open" than a pool stance, and more weight is placed on the planted foot closest to the grip hand (e.g., the right foot for a right-handed player). An open stance can allow your head to be more square to the shot with less neck twisting. This can make it easier to get the head lower with the chin directly over the cue, which can make aiming and sighting more consistent and accurate (for more info, see the the low stance resource page). This is especially important on a snooker table, which is large with small pockets. The open stance also allows you to use your standard stance when your body is up against the table, which can happen a lot on large snooker tables. The open stance also allows one to use the chest and chin to help constrain and guide the cue, possibly helping to keep the cue straight during the stroke.
The more-closed stance of pool can create more clearance between the stroking arm and the hip and chest. This allows more stroke freedom, especially with power shots where the elbow might drop during the follow through (for more info, see the pendulum stroke vs. piston stroke resource page). A closed stance also allows a more-even weight distribution between the two feet. A closed bridge can also be more natural and comfortable for some people.
Snooker players also prefer an open bridge. For more info, see the open vs. close bridge resource page.
A snooker stance is more "open" than a pool stance, and more weight is placed on the planted foot closest to the grip hand (e.g., the right foot for a right-handed player). An open stance can allow your head to be more square to the shot with less neck twisting. This can make it easier to get the head lower with the chin directly over the cue, which can make aiming and sighting more consistent and accurate (for more info, see the the low stance resource page). This is especially important on a snooker table, which is large with small pockets. The open stance also allows you to use your standard stance when your body is up against the table, which can happen a lot on large snooker tables. The open stance also allows one to use the chest and chin to help constrain and guide the cue, possibly helping to keep the cue straight during the stroke.
The more-closed stance of pool can create more clearance between the stroking arm and the hip and chest. This allows more stroke freedom, especially with power shots where the elbow might drop during the follow through (for more info, see the pendulum stroke vs. piston stroke resource page). A closed stance also allows a more-even weight distribution between the two feet. A closed bridge can also be more natural and comfortable for some people.
Snooker players also prefer an open bridge. For more info, see the open vs. close bridge resource page.
Regards,
Dave
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Stance
Of course this is irrelevant to most players under 5'8" in height.
Top snooker players have very good spatial abilities to adapt for depth of field in their surroundings and to concentrate on the table surface as a whole. This is partly due to the green cloth, the table size and also the lit surface with usually dark surroundings.
The stance itself allows the upper body to position itself so that the shoulders and torso have little chance of moving while moving the rear striking arm. The striking arm also has the best chance of falling into a 'perfect swing'. Upper arm perpendicular to the torso and forearm vertical between elbow and wrist. This position creates a piston-like movement and leaves less chance for any deviation while moving the cue from backswing and through the striking of the cueball.
The follow through to strike the chest is not necessary but can make the finish of the stroke pronounced and therefore guarantee a follow through. Assisting in making a positive shot.
A number of coaches urge beginners to use a mirror to see the action of their arm while in the correct stance. It can actually be quite obvious to see the positive arm action as the stance is corrected to a locked back leg and forward facing torso.
This is mainly due to a lower table surface height. Most snooker players have to adapt their stance by either bending their back leg which is normally locked, or shifting their body forward and placing more weight on the table so that the back leg can remain locked.
Of course this is irrelevant to most players under 5'8" in height.
It is actually more likely that the cue will be central under the eyes. Most snooker players do not rely on dominant eye or are unaware of it without seeking extra input into their game. As long as the cue does not lay outside the eyes then the brain will automatically adjust. The human eye(while still having a dominant side) can be easily trained to sight centrally at distances that are further away. Again there are exceptions like Jamie Jones.
Top snooker players have very good spatial abilities to adapt for depth of field in their surroundings and to concentrate on the table surface as a whole. This is partly due to the green cloth, the table size and also the lit surface with usually dark surroundings.
Surpised you didn't say right side and wrong side. Most other countries are aware that in the USA right can actually be wrong...lolIt could be the same reason that some of the world drives on the right side of the road and others on the left. Snooker is popular in England and the rest of the world wants to be different.
This can play a part but again it is easier to 'address' the table with a snooker stance due to the height rather than the length.
As Ghosst mentioned this is closest to the mark.
The stance itself allows the upper body to position itself so that the shoulders and torso have little chance of moving while moving the rear striking arm. The striking arm also has the best chance of falling into a 'perfect swing'. Upper arm perpendicular to the torso and forearm vertical between elbow and wrist. This position creates a piston-like movement and leaves less chance for any deviation while moving the cue from backswing and through the striking of the cueball.
The follow through to strike the chest is not necessary but can make the finish of the stroke pronounced and therefore guarantee a follow through. Assisting in making a positive shot.
A number of coaches urge beginners to use a mirror to see the action of their arm while in the correct stance. It can actually be quite obvious to see the positive arm action as the stance is corrected to a locked back leg and forward facing torso.
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As one with (some) back problems, I find the Snooker stance easier on my back than the (open) pool stance. And when using the snooker stance at the break, I find that my hip is not hurting as much at the end of the night (compared with the open pool stance).
But, overall, I suspect that raising the tables up to 32" off the floor would help aleviate both.
But, overall, I suspect that raising the tables up to 32" off the floor would help aleviate both.
Thanks to everybody for this thread. Very interesting and useful.
My question: When I try an open stance I need to have my grip hand inside my elbow ("chicken wing") in order to get the cue comfortably under my chin, and my hip then seems to be in the way of my stroke. Am I making the mistake of trying to keep my hips and shoulders too parallel with my feet?
pj
chgo
My question: When I try an open stance I need to have my grip hand inside my elbow ("chicken wing") in order to get the cue comfortably under my chin, and my hip then seems to be in the way of my stroke. Am I making the mistake of trying to keep my hips and shoulders too parallel with my feet?
pj
chgo
There's a twisting of the hips in the open stance that alleviates this...look at how most snooker players lock the right leg but bend the left leg...there's a torque that pulls the hip out of the stroke hand's way. Also, a lot of players use their right breast as a contact point to lock the stroke in. A snooker stance in pool can be a bit constrained, especially when you need to let your stroke out to move the heavier cue ball...
The biggest reason is as stated by others...a 12 foot table has you leaned up against it more often. I go to a somewhat open stance when I'm jacked up leaning way across the table for a shot...sometimes twist around quite a bit. Not something I choose to adopt as my normal stance...
Lots of snooker players have a dominant eye, and cue accordingly - Liang Wenbo , for example.
Check this out - much heavier balls than pool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbw5cvdWob4
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