Why isn't there a bar table hall of fame

As far as I'm concerned, this thread isn't about the best bar-player,
but who belongs in the Bar Box Hall of Fame.

So far I haven't seen a name that doesn't belong in this Hall-to-be.

But I have a unique situation here...I got a player who I think belongs
in this thread, but I don't have his name.
Maybe we could have a spot like the 'Tomb of the Unknown Soldier'.

This is something that Jimmy Moore and John Forakers told me when I
was a kid.

They went to Pontiac MI, looking for action.
The best player in the bar would only play for $2 a game....
....well, Jimmy always liked to play....

The guy won the flip and ran 22 racks on him, with what Jimmy said
was 'a bumpy old stroke'.
He broke dry on the 23rd rack and Jimmy took his $44 loss and shook
his hand.
Back out in the car, Jimmy couldn't stop laughing...John asked "What are
you laughing about?"
Jimmy said "That's the best thing that ever happened to me!"

So for that session, this unknown player was the best in the world.

The player that is known as the best isn't the best 365 days a year...
...he just owns more of those days than anybody else.
 
Rusty C said:
There were alot of great players back in the 70's through the mid 90's,that primarily was forced to play on bar tables,because that was the best way to make a living.It would be a shame to see these players forgotten in time.And if so who would be your first inductee.
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This thread has really jogged my memory. It seemed like all we played on was bar tables for like a decade. Some players not mentioned are
Ed Giger I may have his name spelled wrong, I think he was also a pilot.
Another is "One eyed" Tony Howard
as well as Charlie "Left handed Charlie" Jones.
 
watchez said:
JAM - I am not trying to upset you or Keith and I understand Keith and David are friends. And they both are/were great players, if not the greatest players on the bar box. I did however, ask David about this very subject one time. David is a very quiet person and you don't hear him talk about things too often. And I am in no way speaking for him. If you ever talk to David about his gambling sessions, he has a great memory for the scores of matches, shots he made, amount that was wagered, etc. etc. David told me that when he played Larry H. and lost, he doesn't remember one thing about that night. He was obviously jarred by someone, thus the reason he lost. I believe he played Larry a short while later and it was no contest.

I have said this before - David has been in Olathe for who knows how long - (the early 90's?) and not one time has anyone ever walked in the door and said I want to play David Matlock some, rack them up. Believe me, there would have been no hesitation, they would have gotten played.
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Thank you for the reply. It's funny you mention being jarred, because Keith claims that he played Matlock on a gaffe table in Texas one time. I know when Keith has lost matches with me, there have been times when he said his pants were too long, and he wsa tripping on them, which resulted in a loss, or his opponent was giving him slug racks, or it wasn't noon yet, so he couldn't drink a beer and get comfortable.:grin-square:

Last night, after I wrote that post, we went out and I told Keith about this, yet again, Matlock vs. McCready thread. Like Matlock, Keith would NEVER diss or talk bad about a fellow player, especially Dave. They truly do have the utmost respect for each other's game. :)

It seems like folks in the Midwest rank Matlock the best, and folks on the West Coast may rank McCready the best. The truth of the matter is they both peaked in different eras.

Keith then reminded me of the time at the Maverick Club in Lexington, subject to check on the names, when he was getting staked to play Dave Matlock a 10-ahead set. Keith was getting backed by a well-known mobster-like guy from Georgia for 10 dimes for the 10-ahead set. Well, it was over in 50 minutes, with Keith coming out on top. The mobster-like guy handed Keith 2 dimes for winning. Keith was a little perturbed about that.

Later, however, the two of them went to the casino, and the mobster-like guy let Keith roll the dice. They ended up winning $15,000, and then the mobster guy gave Keith 3 dimes for that little run.

These "who's the best" threads often contain remarks written by those who have not seen all contenders. They always claim their choice is someone from their region who they have seen up front and close. It is difficult to rank any player if you haven't seen them play in their prime.

Everyone, of course, is entitled to root for the player they think is best, but to demean another player in the process really sucks a big weenie.

Long live Dave Matlock. May his fan club in the Midwest continue to sing his praises. He is very deserving to have his name on the top shelf when it comes to great barbox players. :)
 
clint3612 said:
I agree with that list Watchez but you have to have Buddy Hall in there as well. He and Parica also get the nod over Keith
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Parica's best game is not on the bar box. You really are misinformed.

Buddy Hall peaked at a different time than Keith, but ask Buddy about Keith barbox game someday. You may be surprised at his reply. ;)
 
From the "Bar Table Diary" - CJ Wiley

The Stage Was Set - The tournament was in Anniston, Alabama. and it was a huge bar table tournament. All the greatest players were there, and I was with Weldon Rogers, "Billy Johnson", Berle, "White Oscar", and a group from Kentucky. Reid Pierce and I had recently played in Atlanta and I ended up giving him the "Call" 8 on a bar table and managed to win - it took straight 3 straight days.

Weldon told me he wanted me to play David Matlock (the world's greatest bar table player) and have Billy Johnson break for me, so we matched up a 10 ahead for $10,000. "Billy" (Wade Crane) had only been playing on big tables the last few months and couldn't get the break working. I played flawlessly and got 8 ahead, then Matlock put an "8 Pack" together and we were even, then 1 down.....down 2....and counting.

I was sitting next to "Billy," he leaned in close to my ear and whispered "I just figured the break out....we're going to beat him 30 ahead if he doesn't quit!" I looked up at him and could instantly see, he was calm, his eyes were blazing - he was DEADLY SERIOUS!

Sure enough, all of a sudden I won a game and BILLY BROKE>BAMMMM!!! The cue ball hit the one and went straight up in the air while 4 balls fought to get in the pockets - the cue ball came down {still bouncing} PARKED at the center of the table. Billy said in that "low tone" as he walked back to the chair "I over amped on that one," glanced at me with a smirk on his face, and winked. I knew what was fixin to happen.

We put on a devastating "One/Two Punch Clinic" from there on out and won the 10 ahead in the next hour. He was right, we would have put "30 Ahead" on anyone from that point on. Weldon got up and offered anyone at the tournament the "Last 2" if they wanted to play us, everyone politely declined. 'The Game was the Teacher'
 
pt109 said:
As far as I'm concerned, this thread isn't about the best bar-player,
but who belongs in the Bar Box Hall of Fame.


The player that is known as the best isn't the best 365 days a year...
...he just owns more of those days than anybody else.
Click to expand...


I agreed pt109, this thread is about those head & shoulders above other bar table players during the 70's - 90's that made a living playing pool, and deserve being recognized as such in a Bar Table Hall of Fame!


David Harcrow
 
David Matlock, Wade Crane,"Country Calvin" and Keith McCready

catpool9 said:
I agreed pt109, this thread is about those head & shoulders above other bar table players during the 70's - 90's that made a living playing pool, and deserve being recognized as such in a Bar Table Hall of Fame!


David Harcrow
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So I would like to suggest David Matlock, Wade Crane, and Keith McCready as the first nominations. We can create the "Bar Box Hall of Fame" in Ft. Worth Texas (just my suggestion ;))

"Country Calvin" should also be on the ballet from my personal experience.
 
CJ Wiley said:
So I would like to suggest David Matlock, Wade Crane, and Keith McCready as the first nominations. We can create the "Bar Box Hall of Fame" in Ft. Worth Texas (just my suggestion ;))

"Country Calvin" should also be on the ballet from my personal experience.
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I think Ft. Worth would be a perfect place
 
Ft. Worth would be a perfect place

Rusty C said:
I think Ft. Worth would be a perfect place
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Ft. Worth had a lot of great bar table players from Coy Lee to Erman Bullard, "Fat Ralph" and several that play "jam up" (Joey Barns) that no one's ever heard of. Ft. Worth has more great unknown players than anywhere I've ever seen in the country.

When I get my new place open I'll have some BarBox Challenge matches between the "Best of the Best"......then we'll see who can hang and who can't....and the rules will be "two shot shoot out"....this will bring the cream to the top for sure.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Ft. Worth had a lot of great bar table players from Coy Lee to Erman Bullard, "Fat Ralph" and several that play "jam up" (Joey Barns) that no one's ever heard of. Ft. Worth has more great unknown players than anywhere I've ever seen in the country.

When I get my new place open I'll have some BarBox Challenge matches between the "Best of the Best"......then we'll see who can hang and who can't....and the rules will be "two shot shoot out"....this will bring the cream to the top for sure.
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That would be great to have some challenge matches.But the reason I started the thread was Tony Ferguson,was talking about all the great bar table players,that were bonifide champions,that will never be in the bca hall of fame.
 
Endurance became a deciding factor.

Rusty C said:
That would be great to have some challenge matches.But the reason I started the thread was Tony Ferguson,was talking about all the great bar table players,that were bonifide champions,that will never be in the bca hall of fame.
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Sometimes threads create a direction of their own. It's a interesting point of view, however, most of the really great bar table players also played top notch on the big table. Most of the really great bar table matches were played over a two day period....sometimes for over 24 hours straight. Endurance became a deciding factor.

Reid Pierce was a top bar table player and one of the weaker champion big table players and still WON the US OPEN. I tried to give him the 7 a couple time and he won, but he wouldn't take the 8 (on a big table).....he did on the bar table and it was extremely tough, I think overall we broke pretty even, but I won giving him the last two and "Call 8" a time or two.

Some people think my best game was the bar table, but that's not true, my best game was the 9 and 10' tables. The move was always to play the "home town player" on his weakest table first, then beat him on his favorite table when you had them "stuck" and ready to "sail".
 
Bar Table Hall of Fame

CJ Wiley said:
So I would like to suggest David Matlock, Wade Crane, and Keith McCready as the first nominations. We can create the "Bar Box Hall of Fame" in Ft. Worth Texas (just my suggestion ;))

"Country Calvin" should also be on the ballet from my personal experience.
Click to expand...



CJ, I nominate you to take on the challenge of setting up a "Bar Table Hall of Fame" for all those deserving players from the 70's -90's to be recognized for their play, if you can get the ball rolling and think you can make it happen , please do so.

I don't know all the channels that have to be made and gone through, but I think your the perfect person to help make it happen if it ever will.

Like Rusty C said most of these guy's will never be in the BCA Hall Of Fame but are just as deserving for their play all those years on the bar tables.


David Harcrow
 
macguy said:
As far as a Hall of fame, today it can be done with a website. All it takes is someone with the inclination to set it up.
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I hope it gets set up, a "Bar Table Hall of Fame" would be a nice addition for the pool world.


David Harcrow
 
pt109 said:
He used to own a bar in northern IL, IN, or OH (can't recall which one)

A road player challenged him, 8-ball....Bobby ran 14 racks on him....
...he came back the next day with another backer...Bobby ran 7 racks.
Nobody got to see if the guy could play or not.

I also heard that Mike Sigel offered him the 7 on a 9-foot...
...Bobby offered Mike the 7 on a 7-foot...
...neither would go to the other one's table.

Richie in Baltimore knows a lot more about him than I do.
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The late great Bobby Legg, that bar was in indiana, Bobby had came to Baltimorein the late 80s or earlie 90s. and Bobby stay here for just about the rest of his life.

Bobby had hooked up with a good pool player bar owner by the name of Don Gibson here in Baltimore, Bobby worked the bar and lived over top of it, of course when any good pool player would come to town they would go TO Gibsons bar (kin tin) and they would always get action, either with Don or Bobby, this went on up until Don had passed away in around 2008, then i believe Bobby had went back home to Indiana were he had pass on.

Like 109 said, MR.LEGG could play, Cigar Tom Vanover never had any one close to his speed here in Baltimore , that all changed when Bobby came to town, Tom and BObby probably play about 20 big money matches through the years, they always played even 9 ball 1 foul, i seen everyone of these matches and i will tell you they fought like cats and dogs, and i would say either one of them are up more then one set, thats how close they were in pool!

Cigar was always my favorite player and still is today, but MR,LEGG was right up there with Tom in my book (just a great man).

Bobby would gamble and he would bet high, but i notice over time the money didnt mean much to Bobby, he cared about playing pool perfect, which he did more times then he didnt!
 
catpool9 said:
CJ, I nominate you to take on the challenge of setting up a "Bar Table Hall of Fame" for all those deserving players from the 70's -90's to be recognized for their play, if you can get the ball rolling and think you can make it happen , please do so.

I don't know all the channels that have to be made and gone through, but I think your the perfect person to help make it happen if it ever will.

Like Rusty C said most of these guy's will never be in the BCA Hall Of Fame but are just as deserving for their play all those years on the bar tables.


David Harcrow
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I wonder if Mark Griffin would have any interest in this. An induction dinner as a pre-event at the US Bar Table Championships would be a natural.
 
Definitely an awesome idea, bar box is a different animal altogether. One pocket has its own HOF (and rightfully so) because it's a different game. AWSOME THREAD....AWSOME IDEA
 
Heard years back from some pretty solid guys that dave broke and ran 27 or 28 racks on the BB......and Fat Randy did it once, then missed and ran the same quantity again.
 
catpool9 said:
Off the top of my head these are the best bar table players I've ever seen play with my own "EYES" and make a living at it from the 70's through the 90's. If you liked your money you certainly steered clear of any of theses players for they all were bar table specialist of the day!

All these guy's made a living gambling at pool on a bar table!

David Matlock, Buddy Hall, Erman Bullard, " Billy Johnson" Wade Crane, Mike Sigel, Allan Hopkins, Sergio Vargas, Weldon Rogers, Louie Roberts, "Country Calvin" Harcrow, Danny Medina, Paul Turner, "EarthQuake" Keith McCready, Billy Weir,Terry Bell, Jack Hynes, Jack Cooney, C J Wiley, Bobby Leggs, " Hawaiian Brian" Hashimoto, Nick "The Greek" Valhos, " Tracy Joe" Joe Salazar, Earl " Wade" Kellum, Reed Pierce, John Shupet, Steve Gumphrey, " Atlanta Danny" Danny Greardon, Brian Atchley, "FlyBoy" Jimmy Spears, James Christopher, Denny Searcy, James Waldon, Eugene Browning, Scotty Townsend, Jerry Brock, Tony " Fargo" Ferguson, Gary "C" Seay," Fat Ralph" Cortez, "Little Al" Mason, Marco Marcus, Ted Copeland, "Jumpin" Joe Lawrence, "Fat Randy" Wallace and many others I can't think of right now.

I would add Earl Strickland and Johnny Archer but they mostly played tournaments for a living, Hall, Sigel and Hopkins did too but they gambled alot during this time.


David Harcrow
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Nice list.

I'd add Wendell Rogers, as CJ mentions below.
I'd also add a certain Mr. Varner who won national titles on bar boxes, Louie Lemke who I believe won four national bar box titles, Willy Munson, Dallas West, and Billy Steele who was just coming into his prime when he died in his early thirties. He would have held his own with half the players on your list.
 
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