https://youtu.be/EsGFc0puuBI?t=10
https://youtu.be/LnD0O3fw6Ls?t=18
Those should help.
Better camera setup
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Why Pivot?
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
https://youtu.be/LnD0O3fw6Ls?t=18
Those should help.
Better camera setup
No pivoting seen in these clips either. But he does have a slight wobble motion between his back stroke and forward stroke. His grip hand swings a touch out and back with the stroke. It's really noticeable in the second clip at 2:15....here: https://youtu.be/LnD0O3fw6Ls?t=133s
It looks like he lines the tip up straight to exactly where he intends to strike the cb, then he shoots.
Maybe something is wrong with your eyes.
Efren, Bustamante, Parica, SVB, Rodney Morris, Hohmann and Pagulayan use pivoting system.
And a few more late greats.
It’s just his PSR.
He switches hands to chalk and then swings the cue back to his grip hand as part of how he descends and gets into final shooting position. There is no pivot and even if there were, as with many players, it’s just a part of their PSR.
Some of you guys should take up reading tea leaves or lamb entrails, lol.
Lou Figueroa
Maybe it's my heart.
I'm just watching normal shooting techniques with my eyes, and deep in my heart I'm not trying to make anything more out of what my eyes are seeing. Judging by what I see, and having watched these players up close, I don't believe any of them use a pivot-style aiming method. A flamboyant stroke (like most Philippinos) is no indication of pivoting. A couple on the list have spoken up about aiming, and pivots are not part of their process. But if you want to believe they are secretly pivoting, then you have every right to believe it. That's the beauty of personal opinion. But the truth always resides in the other person -- we can pretend to know what they are doing or thinking, but only they truly know. I don't assume anything beyond what my eyes are telling me.
Maybe it's my heart.
A couple on the list have spoken up about aiming, and pivots are not part of their process. But if you want to believe they are secretly pivoting, then you have every right to believe it. That's the beauty of personal opinion. But the truth always resides in the other person -- we can pretend to know what they are doing or thinking, but only they truly know. I don't assume anything beyond what my eyes are telling me.
When both of them set up with the tip of the cue at the base of the CB on the cloth and then draw back for their stroke and strike the CB all over the entire face, sometimes at miscue boundaries, what do you call it?
Is pivot the correct word? Is swiping the correct word? Is redirecting the stroke the correct word?
Or could it be any one of the above? Is there actually a correct word?
Good point. I have a few friends that do this. They cue low to the base of the cb regardless of where they plan on striking the ball. We can call it whatever we want, but it's not pivot aiming. They are aiming with the tip at the base of the cb, then applying bhe or striking somewhere on the vertical center line.
However, when you strike the OB all over the place from extreme low, to extreme high and far left or right, it damn well better be coordinated with aiming somehow or another because that's going to end up being a wildly missed shot.
If it can be done as Efren, Busta, and your friends do it, what's the difference with doing it for aiming? We can also call it whatever we want besides "pivot". I guess the word "PIVOT" when coupled with "aiming" is now officially classified as PROFANITY or HERESY by the all knowing purists of angles and math.
Remember, there is NO PIVOT in Pro 1.
Here's another area the math and physics geeks don't do on their own when playing as well as knock. BHE which is another form of PIVOTING. If they aren't parallel then it's not right.
Another would be TUCK and ROLL. That is INSANITY according to them. Probably you also. Yet the greatest pro players have used and do use both BHE and TUCK and ROLL which is another way of altering the shaft angle and a PIVOT.
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It doesn't appear that you're willing to learn.
A true test of what I said would be if you shoot the spot shot from every possible cut angle using only 15-30-45 fractional cuts.
And, of course, we'd have to be sure you used only those three exact fractional cuts without any (conscious or subconscious) tweaking. Get back to me when you figure that small wrinkle out.
pj
chgo
Here, I'll get back to you now. I will BACK Low500 against you in a money match even though I've never seen him play.
I'll fly both of us out to your backyard in Chicago. $5,000 for starters and we'll go up from there if your little heart desires.
We'll see what works and what doesn't. Are you in or out?
I agree with all of this. But I think the OP was referring to a final pivot that brings the stroke into the aim line, not the aiming compensation that occurs when english is used.
And I realize the sweep is not a pivot. A manual 1/2 tip offset pivot might sometimes be closer to a 1/4 tip offset pivot. So the sweeps aren't exactly the same every time, depending on the shot, and that's where experience comes in. A CTE player determines what looks right, then places the bridge V into a position that feels right and sweeps into ccb. If something feels off, like your motions don't quite fit with what your eyes are seeing, you either have to make it feel right or stand back up and readdress the shot. It's the same with any aiming method.....pick an aim line, and then when you get down to shoot if you think "something isn't right", you stand back up and look at the shot again.
Yes, because it doesn't look right either.
What your beloved group talks about regarding "feel" aiming is you get down to the shot and "aim" in a general known direction. Then go back and forth, back and forth from left to right or right to left and try to home in on what "feels" right.
If you know EXACTLY where to aim with Joe Tucker's Contact point system, a fraction from yours, or CTE, that's what takes the doubt out of the shot and "feel". You get right on it from the start with the eyes leading and the body following.
Sure, we can all get sloppy or lazy with the stance and body alignment but even then the eyes tell us something is screwed up which calls for a redo.
Pete, I'm dead serious about what I posted to PJ. All you have to do is get on the plane and play. No nerves, no concern for anything. Just play.
So are you saying there is no "sub conscience adjustment"
I don't know if there is or not. The subconscious is always working. So if you're down on a shot and you realize something doesn't look right, or you feel your stroke or body is misaligned, it's your subconscious telling you there's a mismatch between current sensory input and stored information (acquired knowledge). The brain likes for things to match up, so it's highly probable that it fixes slight discrepancies subconsciously in order to get the body perfectly in tune with what the eyes are seeing. If it's too out of whack the subconscious passes the ball to the conscious working area where we have to reevaluate the situation.
Obviously you still don't understand anything I've said.
If either one of you knew how to make a bet about what I actually said I'd take it in a heartbeat (and your house, car and business if you didn't eventually come to your senses). But neither of you even understand it, and it's pretty obvious that you never will (and/or don't want to). I believe there are other readers here who aren't so resistant.
Yes, I think that's in your best interest.Low500 said:
pj
chgo
I could care less about one of your screwball bets. Bet STAN with whatever you want. He'd be MORE than happy to do it on a table, video it, and show whatever it is to the world. All you have to do is go to KENTUCKY. He or I might pay your airfare if you want to bet high enough.
As far as Low500 goes, THAT BET is still on with you big boy. I am NOT blowing smoke. $5K minimum on your home turf in any pool room in Chicago.
He uses CTE and you use whatever the hell one of your goofball diagrams works the best along with the lizard head going back and forth. I'll be taping the match.
He's an older man past his mid 70's and you're in your early 70's. He's been playing for close to 65 years and you for about 25. But you have the edge because of all the physics and math knowledge.
Lets go Patrick! One of these days your actions have to match your mouth. It's never happened yet. Now is the chance.