I didn't want to hijack Jay's thread, so I'll start my own.
First and foremost, I have nothing against women or anything like that, so don't bother flaming me - I'll just ignore you. On to the thread...
As a fan, I have mixed feelings over this. For starters, I do not believe that women play as well as men. I also don't think that anyone who really knows anything about pool would disagree. However, many choose not to state it openly. Whether it be for stating the obvious, or as to avoid being falsely viewed as chauvinistic or bigoted. If 30-40 women enter the U.S. Open, it will have effectively weakened this major tournament. Making it less of a test of greatness for whomever wins it. The counter argument to this is, that the greats will still play in it, and the creme always rises to the top. So you'll still have to beat the best to be champ. That's true, but the journey to the top may be a lot easier if you draw a couple of women players on the way. For some players, it will be almost like skipping a couple rounds. Greater chance of not getting knocked out early. On the other hand, being an open tournament, that means weaker male players can play in it. And there have been male players in the Open that were walk overs. This is where I'll probably offend someone. While some of the lesser known or unknown men have been walk overs, nearly all the women are walk overs.
The exception are the elite women players. The top 3 or so. These most elite women pros are at best about average male pros. I think at best they'll place middle of the road. Some people think even that is being generous. I'm careful not to underestimate too much.
The ultimate test would be an invitational that truly invites all the best male pros, and they all show and play. Such as a real tour. Unfortunately, we don't have that.
I do like that the Open has truly become an Open. To me, Open means anyone. The downside to invitationals is that they're never "undisputed" in that because these tournaments never include every world beater - anyone can always say "so and so beat that champ in a challenge match recently and they weren't in this tournament"...by being a truly open tournament, you can say that whomever is champion, really is champion because no one was denied entry. All were free to come to battle for it - including the women.
Now the women can come and play and see where they stand. One benefit of this is that I will be able to easily shut down the silly claims of the guys at the pool room during those "pool room debates" that think the women play just as well as the men. I've used the IPT as the perfect example. But that tour didn't last and few remember it or even know about it till this day. The women didn't do very well at in the two real tournaments held. It would have been worse if not for the round robin format and the fact that the IPT put some horrible players in there in order to generate mass interest in qualifiers. That led to a few more women's wins. The IPT also fixed matches for promotional reasons. The U.S. Open should put those claims to rest once and for all. I know, it's like telling a kid Santa isn't real.
I predict that women's participation in the Open will go down after the first couple. First one will be more about trying it out and having the experience. The ones that will continue to enter will be those top women players who stand a reasonable chance at going a few rounds in. Being great competitors that they are, they will enjoy the experience of playing the men in a tournament where the men are really playing their A game on a mission to make their dream come true.
Without a doubt, the women will get big support in the US Open. For one, they are vastly more marketable than the men. They also have better sportsmanship on average. Women at the Open will bring in more sponsored players. Should be good for the sport. Also, most people like to cheer for obvious underdogs. The women will ALL be underdogs.
Just like the IPT, women in the U.S. Open will bring many men pro's some extra stress. They won't sweat their skills, but rather the pressure of potentially losing to a woman. I know that's a terrible way to look at it, but it's a reality for some men. The men without such issues will breeze through. The ones with those hangups will find themselves distracted and sharked by it. Couple that with the fact that some women will get into the zone and play a good game by any standard - that can cause panic. Panic because they'll not take them seriously, then find themselves fighting to survive.
For me, that's good entertainment. I remember the IPT very well. The expression on the faces of some men that barely squeezed by a win against women players was priceless. The ones that lost, even better! I'd pay 10x the ticket price to watch that again. The spectators would mass because they are fans of the given woman pro, I was there to watch the guy suffer. I know, I'm a sadist. The pressure was immense against men, it was even greater against women. The sweat. The tension. They were truly miserable. Watching the lady run out on them. But they do it to themselves, that's why it's great entertainment. In their defense, they do have a reasonable basis. Take tennis for example, no woman pro has any chance against any man pro. None. Anyhow, The men who are more professional in their mindset and view all opponents equally and truly with respect play the table will have no such issues. I look forward to these situations at the U.S. Open.
The downside is, it won't make for good pool. I don't watch women's pool because I can't stand to watch two people take 20 minutes to complete an open rack of 9-ball. I can't watch them analyze the table for so long on what are fairly basic position plays or watch them take time "gear up" for a 'tough shot' when it's really a fairly routine stroke shot that the men make without hardly any thought or pause. Nor the pressure of sinking the cheese causing multiple misses by each player and other types of choking not seen in men's play. I also don't care for the over drama and theatrics. The emotional play. The playing to the crowd stuff. Hopefully, they'll leave that behind and get down to business.
I hope that I'm wrong in many areas. Like many others, I know the reality but hope for something else. I'd like to see Jasmin and Allison kick some ass. At least it's something different, something new. Something to talk about.
:smile:
First and foremost, I have nothing against women or anything like that, so don't bother flaming me - I'll just ignore you. On to the thread...
As a fan, I have mixed feelings over this. For starters, I do not believe that women play as well as men. I also don't think that anyone who really knows anything about pool would disagree. However, many choose not to state it openly. Whether it be for stating the obvious, or as to avoid being falsely viewed as chauvinistic or bigoted. If 30-40 women enter the U.S. Open, it will have effectively weakened this major tournament. Making it less of a test of greatness for whomever wins it. The counter argument to this is, that the greats will still play in it, and the creme always rises to the top. So you'll still have to beat the best to be champ. That's true, but the journey to the top may be a lot easier if you draw a couple of women players on the way. For some players, it will be almost like skipping a couple rounds. Greater chance of not getting knocked out early. On the other hand, being an open tournament, that means weaker male players can play in it. And there have been male players in the Open that were walk overs. This is where I'll probably offend someone. While some of the lesser known or unknown men have been walk overs, nearly all the women are walk overs.
The exception are the elite women players. The top 3 or so. These most elite women pros are at best about average male pros. I think at best they'll place middle of the road. Some people think even that is being generous. I'm careful not to underestimate too much.
The ultimate test would be an invitational that truly invites all the best male pros, and they all show and play. Such as a real tour. Unfortunately, we don't have that.
I do like that the Open has truly become an Open. To me, Open means anyone. The downside to invitationals is that they're never "undisputed" in that because these tournaments never include every world beater - anyone can always say "so and so beat that champ in a challenge match recently and they weren't in this tournament"...by being a truly open tournament, you can say that whomever is champion, really is champion because no one was denied entry. All were free to come to battle for it - including the women.
Now the women can come and play and see where they stand. One benefit of this is that I will be able to easily shut down the silly claims of the guys at the pool room during those "pool room debates" that think the women play just as well as the men. I've used the IPT as the perfect example. But that tour didn't last and few remember it or even know about it till this day. The women didn't do very well at in the two real tournaments held. It would have been worse if not for the round robin format and the fact that the IPT put some horrible players in there in order to generate mass interest in qualifiers. That led to a few more women's wins. The IPT also fixed matches for promotional reasons. The U.S. Open should put those claims to rest once and for all. I know, it's like telling a kid Santa isn't real.
I predict that women's participation in the Open will go down after the first couple. First one will be more about trying it out and having the experience. The ones that will continue to enter will be those top women players who stand a reasonable chance at going a few rounds in. Being great competitors that they are, they will enjoy the experience of playing the men in a tournament where the men are really playing their A game on a mission to make their dream come true.
Without a doubt, the women will get big support in the US Open. For one, they are vastly more marketable than the men. They also have better sportsmanship on average. Women at the Open will bring in more sponsored players. Should be good for the sport. Also, most people like to cheer for obvious underdogs. The women will ALL be underdogs.
Just like the IPT, women in the U.S. Open will bring many men pro's some extra stress. They won't sweat their skills, but rather the pressure of potentially losing to a woman. I know that's a terrible way to look at it, but it's a reality for some men. The men without such issues will breeze through. The ones with those hangups will find themselves distracted and sharked by it. Couple that with the fact that some women will get into the zone and play a good game by any standard - that can cause panic. Panic because they'll not take them seriously, then find themselves fighting to survive.
For me, that's good entertainment. I remember the IPT very well. The expression on the faces of some men that barely squeezed by a win against women players was priceless. The ones that lost, even better! I'd pay 10x the ticket price to watch that again. The spectators would mass because they are fans of the given woman pro, I was there to watch the guy suffer. I know, I'm a sadist. The pressure was immense against men, it was even greater against women. The sweat. The tension. They were truly miserable. Watching the lady run out on them. But they do it to themselves, that's why it's great entertainment. In their defense, they do have a reasonable basis. Take tennis for example, no woman pro has any chance against any man pro. None. Anyhow, The men who are more professional in their mindset and view all opponents equally and truly with respect play the table will have no such issues. I look forward to these situations at the U.S. Open.
The downside is, it won't make for good pool. I don't watch women's pool because I can't stand to watch two people take 20 minutes to complete an open rack of 9-ball. I can't watch them analyze the table for so long on what are fairly basic position plays or watch them take time "gear up" for a 'tough shot' when it's really a fairly routine stroke shot that the men make without hardly any thought or pause. Nor the pressure of sinking the cheese causing multiple misses by each player and other types of choking not seen in men's play. I also don't care for the over drama and theatrics. The emotional play. The playing to the crowd stuff. Hopefully, they'll leave that behind and get down to business.
I hope that I'm wrong in many areas. Like many others, I know the reality but hope for something else. I'd like to see Jasmin and Allison kick some ass. At least it's something different, something new. Something to talk about.
:smile:
