Women vs Men

[Celtic]

Chris, once again I have no idea if she gambles at pool. Probably not. That is not the only yardstick for greatness imo. I will add this. I think you are a better than average tournament player going by your most recent results. If you should ever have to play a match against this one particular woman I will gladly make a friendly wager on her. Say $250.

It is not gambling if you put her in the box in a challenge match. It is a 2 person tournament, Chris Bartrum vs Si Meng Chen, 1st place pays the combined entry fee to the tournament, 2nd gets nothing.

So if you want a tournament match to bet on there it is. One 2 player tournament with a nice long set to decide the winner. If Si Meng won't play you have a pick of any "other" female player in the world, or is it just Si Meng that you think can beat Chris and no other female player on the planet?

Chris is really good, but lets be honest, he is not asking you to bet on Si Meng vs SVB or Alex, or Wu... he is giving you the female you think is the best female player on the planet and as Chris said, all she has to do is beat an average level male pro who gets spotted by the top men like Rodney, Fransisco, ect...

Given what you "said" this should be a great offer, or do you just want to admit that what you "said" and the truth of what you "know to be true" are slightly different when it comes to a discussion on who the best players are. Which as I stated above is normally what happens in these threads on your side of the arguement, what people say is just words and noone ever backs them up. Instead we get "Oh, Oh, well if Si Meng plays Mike Davis, Ronnie Wiseman, and that Joe the Plumber guy from Kansas who shoots pretty sporty at times I will bet on her to beat them!!!". Will you take bets on Si Meng if I pick only the matches I want to bet on? Which seems fair if we are comparing her to the BEST male players, I will take Lee Van, Alex, Mika, Thorsten, Ralf, Appleton, and quite a slew of other players against her in any open tournament.

Put her in the US-Open 9-ball and if she does not get taken out by a couple shortstops early on we should have some matches to bet on. If she runs into Chris I will bet on that one. Who knows, she might win the tournament for ya and you can split the 50K+ with her, she is the best female player on the planet, she should certainly at least get you pretty deep in the money. If you had a chance to put Lee Van or Mika or Orcullo into the tourney and split the winnings it would be a no brainer, should be the same for a woman who is according to you at the same level of play.

 

[Celtic]

In the Philippines she would be a Tier 2 player, just under Dennis, Lee Van, Francisco and Ronnie.

Ermm....

So you DON'T think she plays as good as the top male players in the world?

That is all we were asking Jay. Thanks for finally admitting to reality.

 

[real bartram]

It is not gambling if you put her in the box in a challenge match. It is a 2 person tournament, Chris Bartrum vs Si Meng Chen, 1st place pays the combined entry fee to the tournament, 2nd gets nothing.

So if you want a tournament match to bet on there it is. One 2 player tournament with a nice long set to decide the winner. If Si Meng won't play you have a pick of any "other" female player in the world, or is it just Si Meng that you think can beat Chris and no other female player on the planet?

Chris is really good, but lets be honest, he is not asking you to bet on Si Meng vs SVB or Alex, or Wu... he is giving you the female you think is the best female player on the planet and as Chris said, all she has to do is beat an average level male pro who gets spotted by the top men like Rodney, Fransisco, ect...

Given what you "said" this should be a great offer, or do you just want to admit that what you "said" and the truth of what you "know to be true" are slightly different when it comes to a discussion on who the best players are. Which as I stated above is normally what happens in these threads on your side of the arguement, what people say is just words and noone ever backs them up. Instead we get "Oh, Oh, well if Si Meng plays Mike Davis, Ronnie Wiseman, and that Joe the Plumber guy from Kansas who shoots pretty sporty at times I will bet on her to beat them!!!". Will you take bets on Si Meng if I pick only the matches I want to bet on? Which seems fair if we are comparing her to the BEST male players, I will take Lee Van, Alex, Mika, Thorsten, Ralf, Appleton, and quite a slew of other players against her in any open tournament.

Put her in the US-Open 9-ball and if she does not get taken out by a couple shortstops early on we should have some matches to bet on. If she runs into Chris I will bet on that one. Who knows, she might win the tournament for ya and you can split the 50K+ with her, she is the best female player on the planet, she should certainly at least get you pretty deep in the money. If you had a chance to put Lee Van or Mika or Orcullo into the tourney and split the winnings it would be a no brainer, should be the same for a woman who is according to you at the same level of play.

great post

 

[poolplayer2093]

The Predator 10 tourny, Jasmin has been competing vs men..Okay either her or Gae Young Kim are the best female players in the world? Just my opinion.

Yet the "girls" don't seem to be able to compete with lower level pro "boys" in what ever sport you want to choose?

Pool is particularly a game of touch. Even the break, Corey Deuel has deftly displayed that.

Men seem to have no inherent physical advantage of women in this game???
I'm no anthropologist...

i think males are just more competitive. we start playing games where theres a clear winner and loser from the day we start playing anything.

 

[westcoast]

Ga Young and Ouschan are very good players. They will continue to improve- they are quite young- mid-20s? Not saying they are top 10 players in the world, but they could give any man a tough match in a tournament. Don't know if either of them gamble.

Jasmin did quite well in a 14.1 tourney a few years ago and won several rounds in the tourney going on this weekend- beatin See

 

[real bartram]

Ga Young and Ouschan are very good players. They will continue to improve- they are quite young- mid-20s? Not saying they are top 10 players in the world, but they could give any man a tough match in a tournament. Don't know if either of them gamble.

Jasmin did quite well in a 14.1 tourney a few years ago and won several rounds in the tourney going on this weekend- beatin See

for sure they can beat anyone in a tourney.
when i was 17 i beat archer in a tourney and i was not a good player.
for money there are over 100 guys who the top girl cant beat.
there is nothing wrong with the way the girls play i think they play
good.
but not close with the top men.

 

[C.Milian]

They don't play much one pocket. Jasmin plays 14.1 the baby one pocket. And Ga young can actually play billiards...baby billiards.

 

[jay helfert]

It is not gambling if you put her in the box in a challenge match. It is a 2 person tournament, Chris Bartrum vs Si Meng Chen, 1st place pays the combined entry fee to the tournament, 2nd gets nothing.

So if you want a tournament match to bet on there it is. One 2 player tournament with a nice long set to decide the winner. If Si Meng won't play you have a pick of any "other" female player in the world, or is it just Si Meng that you think can beat Chris and no other female player on the planet?

Chris is really good, but lets be honest, he is not asking you to bet on Si Meng vs SVB or Alex, or Wu... he is giving you the female you think is the best female player on the planet and as Chris said, all she has to do is beat an average level male pro who gets spotted by the top men like Rodney, Fransisco, ect...

Given what you "said" this should be a great offer, or do you just want to admit that what you "said" and the truth of what you "know to be true" are slightly different when it comes to a discussion on who the best players are. Which as I stated above is normally what happens in these threads on your side of the arguement, what people say is just words and noone ever backs them up. Instead we get "Oh, Oh, well if Si Meng plays Mike Davis, Ronnie Wiseman, and that Joe the Plumber guy from Kansas who shoots pretty sporty at times I will bet on her to beat them!!!". Will you take bets on Si Meng if I pick only the matches I want to bet on? Which seems fair if we are comparing her to the BEST male players, I will take Lee Van, Alex, Mika, Thorsten, Ralf, Appleton, and quite a slew of other players against her in any open tournament.

Put her in the US-Open 9-ball and if she does not get taken out by a couple shortstops early on we should have some matches to bet on. If she runs into Chris I will bet on that one. Who knows, she might win the tournament for ya and you can split the 50K+ with her, she is the best female player on the planet, she should certainly at least get you pretty deep in the money. If you had a chance to put Lee Van or Mika or Orcullo into the tourney and split the winnings it would be a no brainer, should be the same for a woman who is according to you at the same level of play.

What makes you think I have anything to do with guiding her career? I wouldn't even know how to get in touch with her. You might try reading my post again, I said I would bet on her in EVERY match she plays in an open tournament. I'm not picky about who she plays, whether it be Dennis or Shane. You must not know me very well celtic because I NEVER make statements that I'm not prepared to back up. Unlike some people I consider my words carefully before posting, and read all posts just as carefully before responding to them.

I stand by my earlier statement about this one woman and this one only! If she plays any match against any man I will bet on her, whether it be a tournament match or a challenge match. But that being the case, you must be willing to bet on her opponent, whoever he might be. I hope that's clear enough for you. Now do YOU want action or are you just talking to make noise? Someday and probably soon, we will see her competing against men. I doubt it will be too long. And she will be competing in Asia where the fields are strong and deep. So I offer you this golden opportunity to steal a little of Jay's money. Step up or shut up.

 

[Celtic]

What makes you think I have anything to do with guiding her career? I wouldn't even know how to get in touch with her. You might try reading my post again, I said I would bet on her in EVERY match she plays in an open tournament. I'm not picky about who she plays, whether it be Dennis or Shane. You must not know me very well celtic because I NEVER make statements that I'm not prepared to back up. Unlike some people I consider my words carefully before posting, and read all posts just as carefully before responding to them.

I stand by my earlier statement about this one woman and this one only! If she plays any match against any man I will bet on her, whether it be a tournament match or a challenge match. But that being the case, you must be willing to bet on her opponent, whoever he might be. I hope that's clear enough for you. Now do YOU want action or are you just talking to make noise? Someday and probably soon, we will see her competing against men. I doubt it will be too long. And she will be competing in Asia where the fields are strong and deep. So I offer you this golden opportunity to steal a little of Jay's money. Step up or shut up.

If she plays a tournament with the men you have action in any and every match where she is playing a top 40 or so male player.

 

[C.Milian]

numbers

I think France has more women than men. There should be a world champion in pareeeese---But there isn't. The argument should than be they have not competed in World tournaments with the men. Just a few. One-Jasmin. Then there was the US open a few years ago where one made it pass the cellular wall....out of 8 or 10. I'm not sure of the numbers. I guess it's time to seed more to even the ratio out a little.

Or, just come to a quick and simple conclusion that women aren't 4-5's yet. If you are to look at the pass champions, most of them are within that range. If not, they had to have caught fire during that brief time span when they had to reach deep into their soul's for it.

Sorry, but until we recognize pool as a sport, we will just have to accept that men and women do not differ in any of these sports criterias, when compared in the GAME of pool:

1. Strength: Let's just roll underhand to the one. I mean getting a shot on the one is probably the most important thing about rotation...it might help if your break is slightly bigger....wouldn't you think? Then playing the one....takes a ton of power.

I'm going to stop here before God put me as miss Piggy in my next life.

 

[westcoast]

I think there was a scheduling conflict last year- a major women's tourney was held the same week as the US Open. Therefore, the top female players didn't play in the US Open. I wonder if they are planning on playing this year?

 

[C.Milian]

I think there was a scheduling conflict last year- a major women's tourney was held the same week as the US Open. Therefore, the top female players didn't play in the US Open. I wonder if they are planning on playing this year?

Who did not play that could have done better?

 

[westcoast]

Who did not play that could have done better?

I don't recall off hand exactly, but I'm almost sure that Ouschan, Ga Young Kim, Cha, Pan weren't there. I don't recall if Allison Fisher, Monica Webb or Karen Corr played.

In terms of current ability, I think Ouschan and Kim are the two best female players in the world and I'm pretty sure neither of them played.

 

[jay helfert]

If she plays a tournament with the men you have action in any and every match where she is playing a top 40 or so male player.

Ha Ha, who's wobbling now? She's just a little teenage girl and now you say you want a top 40 player to bet on with her. Sounds like you're beginning to believe me now. IMO she is a top 100 player's speed right now, and that's pretty exclusive territory. Whether she can go beyond that remains to be seen, if and when the day comes that there are more open events and opportunities for her to compete against the top men. I will continue to say that I think there is something special about this particular woman, that could well make her a great player, not just a very good one. Let's see what the future brings. History suggests that we have little chance of seeing her compete over here, in the U.S. Open for instance.

I'd love to see her play more all over the world. I think she would be capable of winning a major tournament at some point if given the experience. All the excellent points you make in your post #35 do not apply to Si Meng. She has surpassed that level and has all the tools in her arsenal to play with anyone. I'm sure you know that Wu Cha Ching has been her coach for three years now. Her game somewhat resembles his, but I wouldn't say she is his equal yet. He is Tier One on the entire planet imo. :smile:

 

[C.Milian]

I don't recall off hand exactly, but I'm almost sure that Ouschan, Ga Young Kim, Cha, Pan weren't there. I don't recall if Allison Fisher, Monica Webb or Karen Corr played.

In terms of current ability, I think Ouschan and Kim are the two best female players in the world and I'm pretty sure neither of them played.

She turned down an opportunity to play the US open? I don't know the facts however, weren't there a few that played the BCA tourney? I'm sure they were quite a few notables in that one right? As I remember, only one did well...she beat the dude that now wears a glove.

 

[Celtic]

Ha Ha, who's wobbling now?

Maybe you should read post #41 again, here let me help you out.

Which as I stated above is normally what happens in these threads on your side of the arguement, what people say is just words and noone ever backs them up. Instead we get "Oh, Oh, well if Si Meng plays Mike Davis, Ronnie Wiseman, and that Joe the Plumber guy from Kansas who shoots pretty sporty at times I will bet on her to beat them!!!". Will you take bets on Si Meng if I pick only the matches I want to bet on? Which seems fair if we are comparing her to the BEST male players, I will take Lee Van, Alex, Mika, Thorsten, Ralf, Appleton, and quite a slew of other players against her in any open tournament.

You trying to hedge your bets by stating "EVERY" match (which I caught btw and which lead to what I stated above in post #41) is simply proving the point of this post, you need to get an edge somewhere, because the woman who you think is the best female player in the world is still not a 50/50 bet against the top men. Which is ALL I ever stated and THAT is what you tried to argue against in the beginning of the thread.

If you are over that delusion that is fine, if you admit that the best female player in the world is not as good as the top 40 men in the world then we are on the same page, if you want to argue against THAT then we can bet, but I am not giving you the chance of Si Meng drawing some nobody who went to the US-Open for a good time who is fodder for any of the 30 or 40 people in the event who actually have a legit chance of winning.

If you think she is just as good as the BEST men then you and me can bet. If you think you need to bet on every match then it is joke and you are just trying to get lucky on the draw and have her draw someone she is actually a favorite against because you know as well as I do that there are many men in the event she is a dog against.

 

[The Chinchilla]

The thing I have noticed, if you take any good female 9ball player, and take a look at her one pocket game, it is just a total joke or non-existent. Do the same for a strong male 9ball player, and odds are he can play some very sporty one hole. In fact, are there ANY strong female one hole players?

I don't know what that means, other than I hope these women focus on broadening as well as their games in the future. There is a whole nother world out there ladies -- one in which you'd be very welcomed to join.

I also wanted to note, one hole seems particularly suited to a woman if you ask me. No big breaks or big strokes needed, just precision and patience. It seems there is huge opportunity there for a woman to tune up and play very well if you ask me.

 

[C.Milian]

My hair did

I mean if you wanna play ball with the boys...you gotta have some skills. There has always been that girl that can throw a little faster than the rest and jump a little higher (I don't mean cueball jumping...palease...guys don't do that).

 

[jay helfert]

Maybe you should read post #41 again, here let me help you out.



You trying to hedge your bets by stating "EVERY" match (which I caught btw and which lead to what I stated above in post #41) is simply proving the point of this post, you need to get an edge somewhere, because the woman who you think is the best female player in the world is still not a 50/50 bet against the top men. Which is ALL I ever stated and THAT is what you tried to argue against in the beginning of the thread.

If you are over that delusion that is fine, if you admit that the best female player in the world is not as good as the top 40 men in the world then we are on the same page, if you want to argue against THAT then we can bet, but I am not giving you the chance of Si Meng drawing some nobody who went to the US-Open for a good time who is fodder for any of the 30 or 40 people in the event who actually have a legit chance of winning.

If you think she is just as good as the BEST men then you and me can bet. If you think you need to bet on every match then it is joke and you are just trying to get lucky on the draw and have her draw someone she is actually a favorite against because you know as well as I do that there are many men in the event she is a dog against.

Firs of all you are being demeaning of Mike Davis (and even Ronnie Wiseman), calling them the equivalent of "Joe the Plumber." Mike Davis IS a top player, fully capable of beating anyone in any match he plays.

Once again I must question your reading comprehension. In my post #18 I said "she is capable of competing against the best men players." I didn't say she was the favorite. That would be ridiculous, considering her lack of experience at this level of play. I said she could compete and hold her own against anybody right now. Would I gamble on her in a match with a player below the top level? Maybe, I don't know. That was not the point I was trying to make or the point of this thread.

The question raised once again is what are the possibilities of a woman winning in an open tournament, and what are the inherent advantages that a man has over them. My response is there is no reason why a woman can't play pool just as well as any man, and I have seen one (Si Meng) that already plays better than most. I WOULD PUT HER ABILITY LEVEL IN THE TOP 100 POOL PLAYERS ON THE PLANET RIGHT NOW! I made this bold so perhaps you can understand what I'm trying to say. I didn't ask for a bet, you did. And when I answered you, you didn't like it.

There is nothing for me to admit to other than being honest in my opinion. I absolutely believe that given the opportunity to compete, she could not only beat some top 40-50 players, but actually win a major tournament. She's that good imo. But she needs experience and the chance to compete. You know nothing about this woman other than whatever pre-conceived notions you have about a woman's ability to play pool at a high level. You certainly don't have to agree with me, but wanting to make a gambling situation of my statements was a little out of line imo.

I hope to God she does find a way to come over here and play in the U.S. Open (men's or women's). You're all in for a treat. This young gal is a real player!

 

[Oregonmeds]

I've heard about Jasmin playing in the mens tournaments in Europe, but haven't had a chance to see any of those tournaments or tour or whatever it is. Are there any of these European open matches posted online somewhere? (free though, not ppv) Maybe it's just that I don't know what search term to look for, what's it even called?