World 14.1 - Is this true???

[railfirst]

this is a complicated situation, men cannot compete in WPBA events, but women can play in any of the regional tours such as the Joss NE 9 Ball tour, and some fair well (see karen corr). why doesnt the WPA or who ever it is that gets to sanction stuff sanction some womens world championships or run them parallel to the mens and then have the winners play. The womens tournaments have decent money and the men have no single tour.

Ben

 

[instroke75]

Mybe he was better than shortstop, but he wasn't in the top 100 men's players either.
Jeremy

 

[lady9ball]

What if...

So suppose men WERE allowed to play in the WPBA. What do you predict would happen? Your answer to that will most likely answer the question of why they aren't allowed to play.

But is letting women play in men's tournaments ruining them for the men? No, just the opposite in some cases. Are men failing to win them any more, because the women have taken over? No.

The arguments are not equally reversable.

 

[Johnnyt]

I venture to guess that if you added up ALL the purse money that women took from ALL the open mens tournaments they played in last year it wouldn't even add up to 2% of ALL the total purses of the ones they played in. I'll also venture a guess that more than 2% was made up through entry fees for them, more people coming to watch them, and a big help in promoting those events. Johnnyt

 

[cuechick]

So suppose men WERE allowed to play in the WPBA. What do you predict would happen?.

I will tell you what would happen, they would probably destroy the longest running and only fully successful tour in the history of the sport. As they have with all the other tours, with infighting and short sighted greed.

For every 1 woman that picks up a cue, there are probably several hundred men that do the same. Men will always dominate in skill because they dominate in numbers, by thousands.

There were 4 women in this event, FOUR, out of how many men? This of course makes Jasmin's success, all the more impressive.

The biggest success of the WPBA has been to attract more and more women to the sport. The level of skill has steadily risen and yes some of the best players, can now pose a threat in an Open event. Still, to use this as an argument to allow men to play in women's events is nonsense. The reason to have events sanctioned by gender, age and skill level is to help the sport grow, which they have. Still, people want to tear their own sport apart, this is what I mean by short sightedness. The focus should be, what is going to benefit our sport in the long run, not making a quick buck by preying on weaker opponents.

It has been established that there are Men's Events and then there are Open events. The US Open, is a men's only event, the UPA events are men's events. The WPBA stands for Women's Professional Billiards Association. So what is unclear here?

Also, many of you guys who think you could walk into a WPBA event and dominate seem to forget you would have to win a qualifier first. You would have to then go against all the other men who think the same thing. So even in your mythical world, you would be in the same boat you are now.

 

[Sweet Marissa]

this is a complicated situation, men cannot compete in WPBA events, but women can play in any of the regional tours such as the Joss NE 9 Ball tour, and some fair well (see karen corr). why doesnt the WPA or who ever it is that gets to sanction stuff sanction some womens world championships or run them parallel to the mens and then have the winners play. The womens tournaments have decent money and the men have no single tour.

Ben

How many times does this need to be posted before some of you guys get it? The men do have a single tour and it's called the UPA.

 

[Jason Robichaud]

I wonder how many good 14.1 male players tried to enter the event and couldn't? How many would have liked an inviteand in the 14.1 world deserved one?

 

[Sweet Marissa]

I wonder how many good 14.1 male players tried to enter the event and couldn't? How many would have liked an inviteand in the 14.1 world deserved one?

That isn't the point. So there were a bunch of men that shouldn't have gotten invites. Don't be mad because there are tournaments both genders can compete it. Be mad because the UPA doesn't sanction enough tournaments. Open means OPEN which means both men and women can play in it. You don't hear the ladies griping about men playing in the 14.1.

 

[jay helfert]

I'm going to say it one last time. I give Jasmin major props for number one having the guts to play against the top men, and number two doing so damn well! I love it! She is just what pool needs. And say what you will about him, I give Charlie credit for having the foresight to invite her.

Look what interest Michelle Wie created playing in PGA events. And she couldn't make the cut. I wish there were ten gals that played Jasmin's speed and could compete regularly in ALL the major events. It's really too bad that in 2008 the same prejudices and restrictions still remain against women. And the WPBA has their own restrictions as well. But notice that quite a few women crossed the WPBA boundaries and played in the big bucks IPT. Look at how well Allison, Karen and Vivian did at DCC this year, and Jeanette did even better the year before.

Yes, I'd like to see women competing in the U.S. Open and the upcoming World Ten Ball Championships. Rules be damned! It would be great for the sport, especially if they did well and got on TV. If a woman ever played in the finals (or even semis) of a major tournament against a man on national or worldwide television, it would be a huge shot in the arm for pool. If I ever put on another major West Coast event, the women are all invited. We had four (Jean, Ewa, Loree Jon and Robin) who played in the Peter Vitalie Invitational way back in 1987.

And that's what I'm talking about.

 

[Johnnyt]

I'm going to say it one last time. I give Jasmin major props for number one having the guts to play against the top men, and number two doing so damn well! I love it! She is just what pool needs. And say what you will about him, I give Charlie credit for having the foresight to invite her.

Look what interest Michelle Wie created playing in PGA events. And she couldn't make the cut. I wish there were ten gals that played Jasmin's speed and could compete regularly in ALL the major events. It's really too bad that in 2008 the same prejudices and restrictions still remain against women. And the WPBA has their own restrictions as well. But notice that quite a few women crossed the WPBA boundaries and played in the big bucks IPT. Look at how well Allison, Karen and Vivian did at DCC this year, and Jeanette did even better the year before.

Yes, I'd like to see women competing in the U.S. Open and the upcoming World Ten Ball Championships. Rules be damned! It would be great for the sport, especially if they did well and got on TV. If a woman ever played in the finals (or even semis) of a major tournament against a man on national or worldwide television, it would be a huge shot in the arm for pool. If I ever put on another major West Coast event, the women are all invited. We had four (Jean, Ewa, Loree Jon and Robin) who played in the Peter Vitalie Invitational way back in 1987.

And that's what I'm talking about.

It will change one day. Hell I can remember when there were sign in a lot of NY bay "No women at bar, Tables only". Johnnyt

 

[Danny Kuykendal]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, even you Jay! :grin:

Unless the women are willing to give up their segregated tour, then they should respectively not enter men's events.

It does impact the men players struggling to make a living.

Lou Butera was one of the main advocates of keeping women from playing in the PBA back in the early 90s. He could see the impact of a woman taking prize money away from a touring pro barely making it.

What's good for the gander should be good for the goose.

This is not about fear of "being beaten by a woman". It' more about the ability to put food on the table, or in many men's cases even to have a table.

My wife is of the opinion that there should not be segregated tours, and that men and women should all play on the same field. I don't agree with this idea. My argument with this is that, while some women could compete, most would pobably have to give up the professional competition altogether.

Open events that are not sanctioned by either men's or women's organizations, I agree should include both men and women.

 

[JAM]

It will change one day. Hell I can remember when there were sign in a lot of NY bay "No women at bar, Tables only". Johnnyt

I remember seeing a pool room in Petersburg, Virginia, with a sign in the front window saying "NO WOMEN ALLOWED." It was in the late '70s or thereabouts. I wish I had taken a picture of it! :grin-square:

This topic has been brought up many times on the forum about the men versus the women. Some men definitely do not enjoy competing against a woman player.

I have always wondered, though, about why women have not advanced further as far as dominance in pool. Pool is not a physical sport, except for maybe the break. I don't understand why gender plays a role that the men seemingly are stronger players than women as a whole.

Maybe it could be because women have not been playing and competing seriously as long as the men have due to the segreation issues. I'm not sure. In golf, they have separate tours, and you don't see them competing against each other very often. In pool, the men and women do compete more often than some sports.

Although they're yucking it up in this picture, Keith was needling Earl about having to play Karen Corr. Earl is smiling in this picture, but I know for a fact that he was not looking forward to this match. Karen is STRONG, and everybody knows it! :wink:

Picture courtesy of Diana Hoppe of Poolpics by Hoppe taken at the 2004 Joss Northeast Nine-Ball Tour Season Finale in Portland, Maine: http://www.hometown.aol.com/jamalloy/jossfinale.html

It would be interesting to see the results of a poll about whether women and men should compete against each other in tournaments.

JAM

 

[Blackjack]

Yes, I'd like to see women competing in the U.S. Open and the upcoming World Ten Ball Championships. Rules be damned! I

According to the story on themain page, Jasmin will be playing in the World 10 Ball Tourney, along with her brother Albin.

Link to the Complete Article

Two other European players will be seeing action in the WTBC. European women's champion Jasmin Ouschan of Austria earlier got a spot from the WPA allocation system for the tournament

 

[Marop]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, even you Jay! :grin:

Unless the women are willing to give up their segregated tour, then they should respectively not enter men's events.

It does impact the men players struggling to make a living.

Lou Butera was one of the main advocates of keeping women from playing in the PBA back in the early 90s. He could see the impact of a woman taking prize money away from a touring pro barely making it.

What's good for the gander should be good for the goose.

This is not about fear of "being beaten by a woman". It' more about the ability to put food on the table, or in many men's cases even to have a table.

My wife is of the opinion that there should not be segregated tours, and that men and women should all play on the same field. I don't agree with this idea. My argument with this is that, while some women could compete, most would pobably have to give up the professional competition altogether.

Open events that are not sanctioned by either men's or women's organizations, I agree should include both men and women.

How tough is this comprehend:

WPBA = women only

UPA = men only

Open and Invitational = men and women.
Who ever puts on the invitational has the right to invite whoever they want.

The only thing wrong at this time is that women are not allowed in the US Open.

As far as woman taking a mans spot in a tournament when is the last time a UPA tournament had a full field. The WPBA has a full field every time.

 

[jay helfert]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, even you Jay! :grin:

Unless the women are willing to give up their segregated tour, then they should respectively not enter men's events.

It does impact the men players struggling to make a living.

Lou Butera was one of the main advocates of keeping women from playing in the PBA back in the early 90s. He could see the impact of a woman taking prize money away from a touring pro barely making it.

What's good for the gander should be good for the goose.

This is not about fear of "being beaten by a woman". It' more about the ability to put food on the table, or in many men's cases even to have a table.

My wife is of the opinion that there should not be segregated tours, and that men and women should all play on the same field. I don't agree with this idea. My argument with this is that, while some women could compete, most would pobably have to give up the professional competition altogether.

Open events that are not sanctioned by either men's or women's organizations, I agree should include both men and women.

Well in that case, I agree with your wife.

 

[Johnnyt]

I know this is a little off subject but it would probably solve the problem fast. The WPBA needs to hold more tournaments in a year (12-18), and/or one or two more womens tours need to be started. Easier said than done I know, but it would solve the problem. They could make a living with that many tournaments. Face it, there are always going to be men and women pros that won't make a decent living at pool...there just not good enough.

Anyhow there won't be any time for them to play on mens tours. Sorta like keep them barefoot and pregnant theory...did I really say that?

 

[Pete]

If the WPBA ran a competing 14.1 event, then I would probably agree with you. But there is no 14.1 Championship for women, and this 14.1 World Championship wasn't billed as a men only event....so what's the problem? Yeah, some of the men may have had a problem with it....but that's when they were sitting on the rail after losing to Jasmin.

And if you think the women are taking the men's prize money....just take a look at the AZB money list for the last couple years. The men are doing just fine...even with the women competing against them in a tournament or two.

Melissa

Melissa this is what I wrote:

My only issue with the women playing is the dress code. That goes in the work place as well.

The men all seem to wear dress shirts and vest, the women should need to conform to that (Allison used to). Jasimon dressed in that brown outfit, and it looks comfortable. Dress clothes aren't comfortable, vests and dress shirts, and pleated pants.

I have the 2006 and Jeanete Lee was in a tank top. It's pool night a night club.

I know, I'm an old fuddy duddy...

Pete

Do you agree or disagree? Like I said, that is my only issue, as far as I'm concerned if you play pro speed then you are a pro, but if you don't say you play B speed you aren't a pro. That is where I think the seperation should be (I compete with some of the women from the Soirit tour when they play in the BCD tournaments.
Pete

 

[Pete]

The biggest success of the WPBA has been to attract more and more women to the sport. The level of skill has steadily risen and yes some of the best players, can now pose a threat in an Open event. Still, to use this as an argument to allow men to play in women's events is nonsense. The reason to have events sanctioned by gender, age and skill level is to help the sport grow, which they have. Still, people want to tear their own sport apart, this is what I mean by short sightedness. The focus should be, what is going to benefit our sport in the long run, not making a quick buck by preying on weaker opponents.






Very well written:smile: :smile: :smile:

 

[Jason Robichaud]

That isn't the point. So there were a bunch of men that shouldn't have gotten invites. Don't be mad because there are tournaments both genders can compete it. Be mad because the UPA doesn't sanction enough tournaments. Open means OPEN which means both men and women can play in it. You don't hear the ladies griping about men playing in the 14.1.

Open means OPEN?

http://azbtv.magnify.net/video/The-WPBA-US-Open-on-ESPN/theater#theater_title

Can men play?

Open is for class/level of play or professionals allowed. I am not the least bit angry women play these events. Skilled as men or not, I prefer watching the top women play. Strokes, stance and class is better than the men. My concern is, women have a tour and more chances are available for women to earn or have money. The money isn't as critical for the women players. Not many male players are married with there wife/girlfriends supporting pool as a hobby. Many of these guys are trying to eat, pay rent, kids, wife etc...

Have events open to men and women thats great, even men against the women challenge, but when you have a world event hold both men and women or hold qualifiers so the people there are the best 64 in the world.

 

[grindz]

>>

.............. Men will always dominate in skill because they dominate in numbers, by thousands. <<
....................
Men like to compete, and will ALWAYS outnumber women in competitive sport. It's genetic. They don't dominate in skill because of this. That part is from hard work, perseverence, determination, and competition.

Some women have those same mindsets....more power to them!! Other women know that they can't compete equally with men...and thus they never will be able to. You can't win if you think you'll lose before you play.
..............................................................................
>>The WPBA stands for Women's Professional Billiards Association. So what is unclear here? <<
...................................................
That's fine....have a seperate tour....no boys allowed. Good for them!!
..........................................
>>Also, many of you guys who think you could walk into a WPBA event and dominate seem to forget you would have to win a qualifier first. You would have to then go against all the other men who think the same thing. So even in your mythical world, you would be in the same boat you are now.

<<
......................................

So, you think if the qualifiers were filled with men that almost all the women wouldn't abondon the tournaments because they had no chance to win. Their tour would be over in an instant.

I see no reason to open the womens events nor would it ever happen. But as you say, if someone wants to compete equally at anything the same rules need to apply to all.

Given all that, let any women into mens events that want to play. Just no preferences given. Agree???


td