World 14.1 - Is this true???

SW,

Because open events were always considered mens events by the average person. Womens were womens and open were mens. This is a problem that has surfaced recently, women hardly ever entered open events before because there level of play was not high enough( other than Balukas). I mean when a top 25 rated girl(WPBA) showed up at the KBP amateur events, no one cared cause she still didn't play very good! But a guy who had never played before could not play in the WPBA or Ladies Spirit tour. The only thing that is a "mens tour" and is exclusive is the couple of UPA events, everything else in the world is womens or open including amateur events(as far as gender is concerned)!
Jeremy
 
Rich R. said:
It seems to me that the only men who complain about women playing in tournaments are those that are afraid of being beaten by a woman.

I won't mention any names, but there were men in this tournament, who didn't belong there, but nobody is complaining about them.

In pool, there is no reason why men and women can not play in the same tournament. The World Champion should be the best player. If you exclude women, some will say you didn't get the best. By including everyone in a World Championship, you should be getting the best.

BTW, I do realize that this event was not a true World Championship and many players were excluded. :(
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I disagree, not everyone minds playing the opposite sex, they just look at the disparity in the opportunity for men and women, and think they should have mens events since they can't play in the womens events! If women play good enough to compete in these events why can they double and triple dip into the lower ranks!
Jeremy
 
From boy scouts to pool tournaments, this way of thinking and participation covers all ends of the spectrum. Girls want to be in the boy scouts but won't let boys in the girl scouts, why? Girls want to wrestle but try to put a male on the female volleyball team and see what happens, why should it go one way but not the other?

That, I think, is what people are griping about.
 
Fart sniffer said:
From boy scouts to pool tournaments, this way of thinking and participation covers all ends of the spectrum. Girls want to be in the boy scouts but won't let boys in the girl scouts, why? Girls want to wrestle but try to put a male on the female volleyball team and see what happens, why should it go one way but not the other?

That, I think, is what people are griping about.
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AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
We ought to let men enter the WPA tournaments & see how many women actually finish in the money. Honestly i know a couple would finish in the money, but lets be honest women would rarely win there own tournaments then.
I think women should be able to play in men tournaments, but also men in women tournaments. I know ANYBODY can be beat, but give me the top ranked 50 men/women, let them play each other and the overall results would not even be close.

joe
 
instroke75 said:
SW,

Because open events were always considered mens events by the average person. Womens were womens and open were mens. This is a problem that has surfaced recently, women hardly ever entered open events before because there level of play was not high enough( other than Balukas). I mean when a top 25 rated girl(WPBA) showed up at the KBP amateur events, no one cared cause she still didn't play very good! But a guy who had never played before could not play in the WPBA or Ladies Spirit tour. The only thing that is a "mens tour" and is exclusive is the couple of UPA events, everything else in the world is womens or open including amateur events(as far as gender is concerned)!
Jeremy
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So by your reasoning, women are women's only, men are men's only, and open are men's only. That's inane, selfish, and insecure. By your admission, there IS a men's tour. It isn't the women's fault that they are not as organised as the WPBA. The fact remains that open events are just that: open. And ANYONE regardless of gender can play.
 
joepwins8 said:
We ought to let men enter the WPA tournaments & see how many women actually finish in the money. Honestly i know a couple would finish in the money, but lets be honest women would rarely win there own tournaments then.
I think women should be able to play in men tournaments, but also men in women tournaments. I know ANYBODY can be beat, but give me the top ranked 50 men/women, let them play each other and the overall results would not even be close.

joe
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Men do enter WPA tournaments. This 14.1 was actually sanctioned by the WPA. So much for that hypothetical, Joe.
 
Fart sniffer said:
From boy scouts to pool tournaments, this way of thinking and participation covers all ends of the spectrum. Girls want to be in the boy scouts but won't let boys in the girl scouts, why? Girls want to wrestle but try to put a male on the female volleyball team and see what happens, why should it go one way but not the other?

That, I think, is what people are griping about.
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and they wont let me in the Junior division either and im pissed!!:rolleyes:
 
joepwins8 said:
We ought to let men enter the WPA tournaments & see how many women actually finish in the money. Honestly i know a couple would finish in the money, but lets be honest women would rarely win there own tournaments then.
I think women should be able to play in men tournaments, but also men in women tournaments. I know ANYBODY can be beat, but give me the top ranked 50 men/women, let them play each other and the overall results would not even be close.

joe
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This is exactly why there are separate tournaments, by your own admission men play better than women overall, so the women would be dead money which means more money for the men. How can you complain about that?
BTW I will take the top two women players against the bottom 25 on your list of 50 for whatever you can stand.
 
jasonlaus said:
This is exactly why there are separate tournaments, by your own admission men play better than women overall, so the women would be dead money which means more money for the men. How can you complain about that?
BTW I will take the top two women players against the bottom 25 on your list of 50 for whatever you can stand.
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You'll go busted! There are a ton of men in the world who would beg to gamble even with Allison, Karen,Ga Young,Kelly F, Jasmin and whoever you feel is your top 2! Ga Young plays as good as anyone on that list and I watched a local shortstop play her for two days in Orlando!(he came out ahead)

Jeremy
 
ALL tournaments should be OPEN to ALL competitors, reguardless of their gender, if they have their entrance fee, their own cues and are happy to participate in the event, then that's good enough for me, because in the end of the day, the best player on the day, is the one who wins :)

There are too many divisions in pool and it's fecking up the sport's potential of getting the public recognition and respect it deserves, and whilst there is all this "boy Scout/girl scout" attitude is around, really isn't helping matter in any way :)

If I'm ever holding a tournament, It's open to ALL players Male or Female and there is nothing that will make me change that view :thumbup:, after all, women players can be every bit as competitive as the men, and I personally have no problems with having ladies enter a pool tournament, if anything it's great to see because it give the chance for a larger playing field and alkso makes a tournament more interesting in the competitive sense :thumbup:

Willie
 
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instroke75 said:
You'll go busted! There are a ton of men in the world who would beg to gamble even with Allison, Karen,Ga Young,Kelly F, Jasmin and whoever you feel is your top 2! Ga Young plays as good as anyone on that list and I watched a local shortstop play her for two days in Orlando!(he came out ahead)

Jeremy
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HA, GOTCHA
This is the exact response I expected, So I'll ask again why shouldn't women be allowed to play if all they are doing is donating to the men?
Yeah I know, they are taking spots blah blah blah. This isn't 1950
 
Jason Robichaud said:
I don't think the women should be allowed to play. Nothing to do with the sex, just the simple fact that they have a tour. The men only have a few big events and women can enter taking spots away from guys. When men are allowed to play in the WBPA then allow women to play the mens events. Any world event or known mens ranking events shouldn't allow female players. The women can play in 8 events?? for $10,000 or so plus the half dozen mens events that offer the same. Why should the guys give up their prize $$ and the women not have to risk WPBA prize $$. If guys where making big $$ with lots of events, I would have a different opinion.

As far as the examples allowing women players, there isn't a pro womens car racing or horse racing event...
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If the WPBA ran a competing 14.1 event, then I would probably agree with you. But there is no 14.1 Championship for women, and this 14.1 World Championship wasn't billed as a men only event....so what's the problem? Yeah, some of the men may have had a problem with it....but that's when they were sitting on the rail after losing to Jasmin.

And if you think the women are taking the men's prize money....just take a look at the AZB money list for the last couple years. The men are doing just fine...even with the women competing against them in a tournament or two.

Melissa
 
jasonlaus said:
HA, GOTCHA
This is the exact response I expected, So I'll ask again why shouldn't women be allowed to play if all they are doing is donating to the men?
Yeah I know, they are taking spots blah blah blah. This isn't 1950
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I really don't care whoplays where, when a top 25 rated Wpba member played in the KBP amateur tour I never said a word, could not care! And I drilled her most of the times I played her( she has beat me once hill-hill, she is a good player!)But I still don't think it is right for them to be able to double dip everywhere.

Hey I like women players, most of them are extremely nice. Not to mention they are good players who act very professionally, and take the competition very seriously!

But lets get it straight, it is not fair and there is not equal opportunities for men vs. women, and that is all I was trying to say.
If this was a truly open tournament where it was an unlimited field, there would have been no discussion.

Jeremy
 
instroke75 said:
I really don't care whoplays where, when a top 25 rated Wpba member played in the KBP amateur tour I never said a word, could not care! And I drilled her most of the times I played her( she has beat me once hill-hill, she is a good player!)But I still don't think it is right for them to be able to double dip everywhere.

Hey I like women players, most of them are extremely nice. Not to mention they are good players who act very professionally, and take the competition very seriously!

But lets get it straight, it is not fair and there is not equal opportunities for men vs. women, and that is all I was trying to say.
If this was a truly open tournament where it was an unlimited field, there would have been no discussion.

Jeremy
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Was it an Invitational or Open? Either way women should be allowed to play. You are just making yourself look bad here.
 
jasonlaus said:
Was it an Invitational or Open? Either way women should be allowed to play. You are just making yourself look bad here.
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You're right i'm wrong, your the best i'm the worst, whatever! I'll pm you from now on to to get your opinion so I can think the same as you, so I don't make myself look bad! I don't agree with you get over it.
Jeremy
 
sjm said:
This debate goes back to at least the 1970's. I recall three schools of thought back then, at a time when whether Balukas should be allowed to play in the men's division of the world championships was being considered.

1) Yes, she should be permitted to play
2) No, she should not be permitted to play
3) She should be permitted to play in either the men's or women's world championships, but not both

One thing that is for sure is that Jean justified her presence in the men's event when permitted to play in the men's draw close to thirty years ago. Equally clear is that Jasmin, who eliminated the defending champion, Oliver Ortmann, in a long race to 200, justified her presence, too.

I'd suggest that Gerda Hofstatter, who has run a hudred, gave a solid accounting of herself, as well, with two match wins and she also gave Danny Harriman a tough match.

I can understand where some of the guys are coming from, but ultimately, the inclusion of women in the world championship is a very good idea that promotes pool in general, and which brings very positive press to the world of women's pool.
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Back in the late 70's I bellieve, we aere at the Clyde Childress and Jean handed Buddy and Rmepe pretty convincing losses. They were going nuts about it and someone drew up a petition to get the women away from mens events.

The next morning we saw David Howard in the paractice room at about 9AM praticing with seat rolling off him. We asked him what he was dong and said there was no way that little b****was going to emabarass him like that.

David won 11-9 in a real nail biter. He was so nervous. Medina and I laughed our butts off.

I was afraid they were going to kick me out of the tournament, cause, she beat me too.
 
Clyde Childress

ironman said:
Back in the late 70's I bellieve, we aere at the Clyde Childress and Jean handed Buddy and Rmepe pretty convincing losses. They were going nuts about it and someone drew up a petition to get the women away from mens events.

The next morning we saw David Howard in the paractice room at about 9AM praticing with seat rolling off him. We asked him what he was dong and said there was no way that little b****was going to emabarass him like that.

David won 11-9 in a real nail biter. He was so nervous. Medina and I laughed our butts off.

I was afraid they were going to kick me out of the tournament, cause, she beat me too.
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Had to be after January 1982. That was when Clyde was killed in a accident.
 
instroke75 said:
You'll go busted! There are a ton of men in the world who would beg to gamble even with Allison, Karen,Ga Young,Kelly F, Jasmin and whoever you feel is your top 2! Ga Young plays as good as anyone on that list and I watched a local shortstop play her for two days in Orlando!(he came out ahead)

Jeremy
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Josh Degler 4-5 years ago? I think he beat Sparky F and George Breedlove around the same time. He was playing well above 'local shortstop' imo. GYK has beaten lots of players above local shortstop speed and she is allowed to lose now and then too. Not to mention, she is a better player now.

If you are referring to another match- I guess i didnt hear about it.
 
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