Worst Player You Know of That Made a Living Hustling?

[SilverCue]

I was chosen to be Jack White's exhibition opponent at Travis AFB in the early 70's.
Game was 14.1 and I just watched

I was chosen to be Minnesota Fats exhibition opponent at Scott AFB in the late 70's.
Game was 8 ball. I broke and ran the 1st rack.
He pulled out a very fat wallet, slammed it down on the rail and said "Let's play for some cash."
The director pulled me aside and told me not to win any more
At the time, he lived in Dowell, Illinois. He fed lots of stray cats.

I was never more than an "A" player but there were several years during the late 70's and 80's that I won more money on week ends and nights than my military pay.

 

[1pocket]

Yeah, sure he was! LOL That why he ended up dead broke, living in a hotel room paid for by the owner. The only thing "smart" about Fats was his ability to BS anybody and everybody who would listen. The guy was a pretty good showman, and a world champion eater! :grin:



Scott Lee

http://poolknowledge.com

This is what you said. At least you gave Fats credit for eating and bullshitting lol.

You should be smart enough to know that hustle and hustling also refer to an energetic go-getter -- something that any self employed person such as yourself would need to have a good bit of -- and it also helps to have a gift of gab and ability to self promote. Fats was definitely smart about all of that. Hopefully for your sake you are too

If the opening post was, what pool hustler will go to their grave with the most winnings salted away? The answer would not be Fats, you're right.

Happy new year (meant sincerely)

http://youtu.be/ekyLXFehvvk

 

[Runner]

Used to know a guy, Randy the Trucker... honest to god long haul truck driver.
Skinny dude with a trucker hat, sneaky pete with no case, cigarette always going.
He'd rarely play big tables... he had the bar table scene wired, always keeping his speed just a little ahead, dump just a little. That "awe shucks, I'm just a trucker having a few laughs" hustle worked a treat, guy would always get paid. Last time I saw him, he said the scene was changing, bars going upscale. Never saw him after that.

 

[skipbales]

Best gamblers

If the opening post was, what pool hustler will go to their grave with the most winnings salted away? The answer would not be Fats, you're right.

http://youtu.be/ekyLXFehvvk

In a book about playing poker by Gary Carson he states (paraphrased) "the most important skill to have at poker is game selection". "If you are the 10th best poker player in the world and insist on playing the 9 who are better you will be a consistent loser. If you are the 10th from the bottom and always play with the 9 who are worse than you, you will be a consistent winner."

The same is true with pool. Being able to understand your self and your limitations and negotiate the right game is the most important skill set to winning money gambling. It is not like a tournament where there is no weight given up. I saw a lot of "hustlers" let their ego get the best of them and play better players. This was especially true when they weren't playing their own money. I never met any who had a bank account that I was aware of. :wink:

 

[Fast Lenny]

Geez Steve...settle down. You're right, I'm much too young to have "been there"...but Jack White wasn't. He told me of two road trips he made, with Lassiter, Fats and Don Willis. This was in the late 50's before Johnston City. I wasn't really doggin' Fats. I was answering another poster who said Fats was the smartest player ever...which is not the case in my eyes. Jack White was at least one of the smartest poolplayers. He got the cheese...and kept it, and died a millionaire. Yep, there have been PLENTY of jam up poolplayers who ended up broke in life...it could fill a book. There's plenty right now who scuffle from one month to the next. To me that's no quality of life...and certainly wouldn't, imo, qualify as "makin' a living hustling", which is the thread title. Fats could not beat the top players of the day like Eddie Taylor, Wimpy Lassiter, Jimmy Moore, Don Willis and the like. He did manage to hustle Richie Florence for about $30K, and that story is detailed in Dyer's book. It was kind of a gaff bet, and took several days, iirc. I liked Fatty, and saw him do exhibitions several times. Like Jack, Fatty could definitely keep you laughing. I never cared for "the art of the dump" (something that Fatty and even some higher profile players were known to do), even though it was 'the way it was', according to Freddy and some others. I think that behavior shames the game, and has no place. Some others may disagree.

Now I don't know why you want to dog me for trying to bring the game to a higher level to more players, through instruction or exhibitions, but I don't "hustle" anybody. I am always honest about my ability...and I have never even claimed to be any kind of champion, or to haves beaten the King of Siam! LOL What I do is get off my butt and work hard to make a decent living doing something I love. No doubt Mr. Wanderone did that too, well enough to own a home and drive Cadillacs. I think it's a shame that he was homeless in his elder years, and quite fortunate to find a kind soul (and big fan) to house and feed him.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

What is your skill level and who are some notable players you have instructed?

 

[billinboston]

Fats could play,played one pocket just under world beaters. I don't know where this
thing about Fats not being able to play in his day go started but it's wrong. Ask the
older guys on here who saw him when he was younger.
jack

That's what i heard on several ocassions
And i posted on another string that Boston Shorty told me he has seen Fats beat many top
players for huge money.
Ronnie Allen gave up a ball to Fats in the 60's -- long past Fatty's prime
And they traded games back and forth!!!!!
Ronnie quoted as saying he had his hands full playing him.
Jersey Red said Fatty played real good when yhe money got up real high

 

[ShortBusRuss]

jackpot...Truth is that Fats couldn't keep up with the better players of his day.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Chris Bartram and Richie Richeson can't beat the top players gambling straight up either.

And both of them have made a nice chunk of change going around beating up on strong shortstops.

Both of them can beat all but about maybe 20-30 American players without a spot in a long-term gambling game.. As long as they don't play those 20-30 players, they're good to go.

The thing is...Fats played in an era where there were a TON more really great players than in the modern era, and he still made a VERY nice living until the money dried up.

And I wouldn't minimize Fatty's achievement in taking down Richie Florence. Richie was a world class player in those days, and 8-7 is not really all that much of a spot.Richie is gonna run out pretty much every time he gets a shot.

Yeah, he was tired every time they played... Yeah, he was drinking every time he played. But even that is not gonna be worth more than a ball or so when talking about a world-class player. Which meant, even an aging Fats was within a few balls of Richie.. And I think Fats played MUCH closer to the top players than Chris Batram and Richie Richeson do to the current top American players...

Short Bus Russ

 

[Ak Guy]

Almost me...

Back in the 60's for the area I was in I was a good shooter and a teen ager and many a player liked to gamble for up to 20 bucks a game. A really big game was 100 bucks a game and they were few and far between.

I won about 50 to 100 bucks a week playing pool. The problem was I knew some of them did not have much of a chance against me and some of them I knew. There were several that were older and better then me and I knew better then to gamble with them.

Eventually I weighed the money against the look on the losers face and quit my mediocre "hustling" career

I have come to the conclusion that the image of the "Hustler" movies and the mystique of the "pool hustler" have done more damage to pool then we think.

Sports hero's from every sport conjure up images of heroism and a sense of honor.

What do images of "pool hustlers" do?

I would gladly give back every dollar I won when I thought I was "hustling". When I think about it now, I'm not that guy.

Sadly, hustling is still held in awe and glorified, like mafia Don's. What a shame.

No wonder pool is not in the Olympics.

 

[John Disque]

Oh.... the grind...

 

[John Disque]

Yeah, it is sad sad. People are just not interested in playing pool anymore. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's (when I was going to the college bars), everyone loved to play pool (no matter what their skill level was). These days, the tables just stay empty all night, and when the owners catch on, they end up removing the tables for more standing room. I really do not understand why the interest in pool (with the newer generations of kids) died.

"Standing room."

 

[greyghost]

I knew plenty of guys who were B level that made $200-$300 a night playing nickel and dime 8 ball, 9 ball, 6 ball and even 3 ball. You just had to know where to fish and when to move on. That stuff can add up quick if you're clever. To answer the OP's question, you didn't have to be a world beater to make money scuffling through college towns/bars back in the 80s. Playing long sets for big bucks was a totally different scenario, though. Lots of A and B players tried to get a spot they could stay ahead of and monsters like St. Louis Louis and many others lived for that action.

I think those days are gone forever, now, though. Go into any bar and try and get action, even $5 a game...it's either nothing or there's a shortstop present who wants to start at $50. I haven't seen a designated challenge table in a bar in years, where those nickel and dime games flourished, everybody lined up their quarters on the rail and a B player could put .50 cents in at 5:00 pm and hold the table all night, just beating all comers and taking Lincolns and beers off them at a clip.

im only 32 and have had the pleasure of being around north cen louisiana in college....it was like tulsa light.....plenty of decent solid bar box players and all of them loved cheap action, 5$ we would play all night.....and 10$ even tourneys with 10-15 people 5 nights a week somewhere local.

I didnt have much large action, usually only when out of towners came in to try and hustle....some goof friend of mine would get bit and id get a phone call to come up to antoons or rocks and such.

Was a great "warm up" prior to moving to tulsa.........that areas changed alot now tho and the kids and people just dont go out like they used to.....

snowflakes i guess

good times,
-greyghost

 

[greyghost]

"Standing room."

they are all sheltered....they didn't just go places, everything is planned.....if i wanted to go somehere as as kid....i didn't ask my mom for a ride, from country to town....."ma i'm going to cornbreads"

"you running or taking the bike lil keeb?" lol

so they play video games and facebook.....drink at home, redbox and netflix

pool is extremely social.....

this new gen is not very social, at least not compared to the former ones mine on down.....

but times are changing....shits expensive....half of them got shit jobs with shit pay.....

why spend $50 on a few handfuls of drinks and bs when you can get a whole 5th and sit at home for a week and play halo and buzz out? (that sounds boring as hell to me....but im a flower tee i gotta socialize!)

if they dont want to play....its their loss.

when the power goes out one day and the economy collapses fully......the players and hustlers will thrive and ride the freight rails again

-Greyghost

 

[336Robin]

Thats how I did it!

I knew plenty of guys who were B level that made $200-$300 a night playing nickel and dime 8 ball, 9 ball, 6 ball and even 3 ball. You just had to know where to fish and when to move on. That stuff can add up quick if you're clever. To answer the OP's question, you didn't have to be a world beater to make money scuffling through college towns/bars back in the 80s. Playing long sets for big bucks was a totally different scenario, though. Lots of A and B players tried to get a spot they could stay ahead of and monsters like St. Louis Louis and many others lived for that action.

I think those days are gone forever, now, though. Go into any bar and try and get action, even $5 a game...it's either nothing or there's a shortstop present who wants to start at $50. I haven't seen a designated challenge table in a bar in years, where those nickel and dime games flourished, everybody lined up their quarters on the rail and a B player could put .50 cents in at 5:00 pm and hold the table all night, just beating all comers and taking Lincolns and beers off them at a clip.

Someone offered to play a game for a dollar with me when I was 12 or 13 dont remember which and I won 3 before we were done. That was 1977 I'm pretty sure. Thats when I figured wow there is money in this! That was the recreation center days and pool was hot as well as foosball and pinball and there were a million kids in those places where I lived in different rec centers all over town.

So I developed a hustle around it. I would go into a place on a Friday or Saturday night and act like I could barely play and immediately the local kids would be on me and everyone watching. Everyone would start lining quarters up and then it didnt matter if you showed your speed it was thing to knock me or if playing doubles me and my partner off the table. About $50 later I would go home. $50 in 1977, 78 was a sizeable amount of money considering a pack of cigs was $.37 and a six pack of beer was $2.00 or less at times. $50 would run me several weeks but I was in the rec center or bar "that they would let me in and they did," somewhere every weekend never hitting the same place twice two weeks in a row.

As long as I started slow and waited for the quarters to line up I could usually win a nice amount before I needed to quit or I quit because some adult couldn't beat me that I didnt want any madder.

The money in Pool was so good I quit cutting grass for the most part but still did that too. I always had plenty of money and didn't have to ask my folks for much but those days are gone and I wouldnt go back to that anyway. I have better things to do but what memories! A great time!

 

[Rjmoncrief]

I made a living at it from 1980 to 1986. Single, still living at home, made it much easier of course. Like most have agreed, it was the era u could play $1-$5-$10 action all night long. I had guys laying quarters on the table to play that didn't mind losing a few bucks and moving on. Occasionally I had to play the tough action but I didn't go looking for it.
I made plenty with the easy cheap games. I treated it like a job. I went to work around
9:00 pm and got off somewhere between 4:00-6:00 am. Didn't drink, didn't chase the ladies (well maybe an occasional get together). I knew and ran with some of the world beaters. They couldn't make close to the money I made because of their ego's and stupidity. They had rather match up with another world beater and take the possibility
Of losing while I made my pockets full playing the cheap games. Like others, I got to many Stories to tell.
To answer the OP question, I'm gonna say MYSELF. Now, my skill level changed all the
Time, just depended on who had their quarters on the table next. The times I had to
play at my highest speed, I was an A......:smile:

 

[John Disque]

they are all sheltered....they didn't just go places, everything is planned.....if i wanted to go somehere as as kid....i didn't ask my mom for a ride, from country to town....."ma i'm going to cornbreads"

"you running or taking the bike lil keeb?" lol

so they play video games and facebook.....drink at home, redbox and netflix

pool is extremely social.....

this new gen is not very social, at least not compared to the former ones mine on down.....

but times are changing....shits expensive....half of them got shit jobs with shit pay.....

why spend $50 on a few handfuls of drinks and bs when you can get a whole 5th and sit at home for a week and play halo and buzz out? (that sounds boring as hell to me....but im a flower tee i gotta socialize!)

if they dont want to play....its their loss.

when the power goes out one day and the economy collapses fully......the players and hustlers will thrive and ride the freight rails again

-Greyghost

We're learning that we're not pack-animals and team-players. In-fact, we don't even like each-other and ---- trust in another human being will get you dead.

We spent many centuries coming out of our caves and trying to be social, blind, happy and stupid..... (It's not natural) and now we're returning to our safe, warm cocoons - updated with the latest high-tech security - because we learned that the people standing in the "standing room" really want our caves and our women and our collections of outdated video games - but especially our purple cordaroys with the holes in the knees.

"You don't need anyone, kid. It's you against the world. Kill them before they kill you and bring home some money! Here's a new Ginacue and some drinking money.

Pool is-indeed an art but sometimes the canvas-itself has to be created and no-one buys ugly works of art.

 

[Cornerman]

I've met 27 guys who swear they paid their way thru college playing pool....


Freddie <~~~ a year late

 

[Rhea]

2004-2006 I was a mid-level APA 5 in Birmingham, AL. I beat every 4 and 5 in the city gambling that would. I kept track those 3 years and made much more than my day job while going to college. Long nights and easy money. If a good talker was willing to move every few years I have no doubt they could win $35K or so cash annually. Not a living but fun.

I think Rhea tried it but does not communicate well enough to get all the easy money from a room/bar, and is too cocky to lay down long enough. Even very good players who previously made a living playing have given it up: Chris Bartram being a great example.

Right now I would say a few coaches have to take the award,

I don't think I could pull off what I did again, it would be incredibly difficult unless I had a bigger bankroll than I had before. Plus most people would not consider living on the road for 9 months on a 3 grand bankroll actually earning a living. I dunno if I'm young enough to ever try this again but If I had a large enough bankroll and a lot more practice and planning, plus maybe a car this time around I would probably give it another shot.

 

[John Disque]

Yeah, it is sad sad. People are just not interested in playing pool anymore. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's (when I was going to the college bars), everyone loved to play pool (no matter what their skill level was). These days, the tables just stay empty all night, and when the owners catch on, they end up removing the tables for more standing room. I really do not understand why the interest in pool (with the newer generations of kids) died.

There's always room for a Valley Barbox and I adore a shark pit.

There's a question deep within the bowels of this post and hundreds of youngsters come here and ask, "Can it still be done?"

Pool will never die. There will always be some 10-year-old kid peeking in the windows of a poolroom and falling in love with the colors and the sounds and the girls while some hustler draws Whitey back 6 feet and straight into the corner pocket.

It's all about "your work of art" and if it's truly a work of art or just another Dollar Store reprint. Some of the folks standing in the standing-room will be bored. They're there every night and it's the same old people, same old standing, same old Bud-in-a-bottle and boring stories about some guy's factory job. They might be willing to play a game or fifty, and sometimes they'll even bet more than you would think... so every day is Christmas!

Move to a big city and just bounce like a madman, don't be shy and just grind away... room to room, bar to bar, every day.... until... at the end of the month... you have enough to pay next month's rent. ("The more you get - the more you bet"... that's the code of "The Grind"). And thousands and thousands of players all over the country do it every day.

Go boy! Go big-time! No small dreams! Create something magical, and colorful and draw that cueball straight back into the corner pocket!

Maybe I'll see you out there.
I'll be the guy standing in the "Standing Room."

 

[alstl]

I've met 27 guys who swear they paid their way thru college playing pool....


Freddie <~~~ a year late

I'm too old to do it any more but I live in a college town and there is money to be made. You many not make a fortune but there is money to be made if you know what you are doing. Frat boys who like to drink and have Daddy's money in their pocket - money they didn't work for and know there is more just a phone call away.

 

[bstroud]

Th two worst pool players I ever knew that made a living on the road were Bunny Rogoff and Kilroy. They were great hustlers though.

Bill S.