WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

[Mikjary]

A friend of mine brought this up a couple of weeks ago . He said it was a more solid hit and sounded like it. We equated it to being closer to center cue ball. I haven't noticed it because I bought a new stick when I first started using it. I also can feel a different hit, but with a different weapon it's hard to know.

Best,
Mike

 

[CJ Wiley]

"war elicits all that is bad in us".

CJ, stupid question coming up. To me inside english means hitting the CB right of center when cutting the OB to the right and left of center when cutting the OB to the left. Is this the same for you? Thx.

Is this a stupid question or an attemp at eliciting* a stupid answer? :wink:


Hitting the cue ball right or left of center is not inside english. Inside english is spin applied to the cue ball. When cutting the ball to the right, it's right spin/english (counter clockwise rotation), when cutting a ball to he left it's left spin/english (clockwise rotation).
I know you were speaking of the "result" of hitting the cue ball in such a way, and I also know why you are asking the question is such a way. Not to be stupid as you indicated, but with a "hidden agenda".
*
eliciting - present participle of e·lic·it (Verb)
Verb:
Evoke or draw out (a response or fact) from someone by actions or questions: "their moves elicit exclamations of approval".
Draw forth (something that is latent or potential) into existence: "war elicits all that is bad in us".

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Banks:
...one says 'inside' and the other says 'outside'.

Naji:
...i think gearing english either way does not throw OB at medium to high speed

There's no such thing as "gearing" inside english. "Gearing" means there's no rubbing between the surfaces (like how gears mesh).

pj
chgo

 

[DTL]

.....................

 

[ENGLISH!]

There's no such thing as "gearing" inside english. "Gearing" means there's no rubbing between the surfaces (like how gears mesh).

pj
chgo

PJ,

Is 'gearing' only a term to be used for a gear like event when it involves reducing or negating friction?

In golf, it is the 'gear effect' hitting a golf ball on the non center of the curved face of a "wood' club relative to the clubhead path that causes the side spin on the ball.

That sounds similiar to the CB picking up some side spin after contacting the OB on a cut hit.

I would think that anything involving the different directions of spin of any two(2) 'circular' objects like a gear a 'gear effect' or 'gearing'.

Thanks in advance for your explanation,

Regards,

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I would think that anything involving the different directions of spin of any two(2) 'circular' objects like a gear a 'gear effect' or 'gearing'.

Gears have teeth, so they don't rub against each other. That's why the "gearing english" metaphor is used - it describes exactly enough outside english so the CB's surface rolls across the OB's surface like a ball rolling across the table with no slipping, sliding or rubbing (like two gears meshing).

By the way, there's a simple way to judge the amount of outside spin that will be gearing english for any cut angle (or perfect running english on a rail): visualize the point on the CB that's opposite the CB/OB (or CB/rail) contact point, then offset the tip a little less than halfway (about 40%) to that CB point. Here's a drawing illustrating the method for running english on a rail:



pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

PJ,

Would it be incorrect to call it a 'gear effect' what happens when the spin on a CB puts opposite spin on an OB?

I'm simply trying to clarify the vernacular.

Thanks again,

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Would it be incorrect to call it a 'gear effect' what happens when the spin on a CB puts opposite spin on an OB?

Gearing english is used to prevent transferred spin and throw, which are caused by the balls' surfaces rubbing (sliding) against each other.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Gearing english is used to prevent transferred spin and throw, which are caused by the balls' surfaces rubbing (sliding) against each other.

pj
chgo

PJ

I guess we just speak different languages. I thought gears transmitted...not prevented.

Thanks anyway. Have a good evening.

Regards,

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I guess we just speak different languages.

"Gearing english" is a metaphor used to convey a specific and limited idea. Does your language include the word "metaphor"? If so, look it up.

pj
chgo

 

[madmiller]

If you try to hit the same type shot every chance you get and MAKE the table play your game you will develop a new confidence. No longer will you care how the balls are laying or the difficulty level.

Especially if you're now using the top of your tip you will get the sensation of a "harder", firmer hit on the cue ball. The sound may also be different. Anyone notice the sound difference after contact?

I regret so much that I have very limited access to the pool table for practice - only a couple days a week(and two nights when I play on the league, where got no chance to practice, just watch and play, so I am trying to squeeze as much productivity in my practice as I can.
Today after doing my regular warm up long straight in shots for an hour, I played 8 ball ghost for another and then worked on my break for an hour.
I didn't do to well against the ghost, every rack was more than two innings, and one time I almost broke and ran, got all excited and didn't hit the 8 ball hard enough and it didn't fall, so my broke and run wasn't successfull.:frown:
But when I started working on my break, I could see that it improved, and every time when I hit it good then I could tell the difference in sound and feeling. Almost like I could feel the cue ball, that's what I think CJ was talking about in one of his previous posts.
Got a long road in front of me in order to become a better player!

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Careful Pat, or you will be joining us on his published ignore list.

LOL

:wink:

"Gearing english" is a metaphor used to convey a specific and limited idea. Does your language include the word "metaphor"? If so, look it up.

pj
chgo

 

[CJ Wiley]

Not the dreaded.......

Careful Pat, or you will be joining us on his published ignore list.

LOL

:wink:

Not the dreaded.......

 

[ENGLISH!]

"Gearing english" is a metaphor used to convey a specific and limited idea. Does your language include the word "metaphor"? If so, look it up.

pj
chgo

PJ,

Sorry if I upset you. No need to be suggestively 'insulting'. It just seems to be a counterintuitive 'metaphor', similiar to the way 'pendulum' appears counterintuitive to describe any cue stroke.

Sorry again,

 

[dr_dave]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave
I'm not sure I agree with your first paragraph, because it is not clear to me what you mean. Inside english does create squirt (cue ball deflection) just like any sidespin shot. However, inside english does increase the amount of object-ball throw with small cut-angle shots and decrease the amount of throw with larger cut-angle shots. With inside english, the squirt and throw effects are in opposite directions, and they can cancel on some shots; however, the amount of swerve varies with shot distance, speed, cue elevation, amount of english, and conditions. Also, the amount of throw varies with shot speed, cut angle, amount of top/bottom spin, the amount of sidespin, and conditions. Therefore, things are not so simple.
Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave
...if the CB has a gearing amount of outside english, there is absolutely no throw. In this case, the proper advice is to hit the OB and cushion at the exact same time.
Also, if the CB has some more outside spin, then the proper advice is to hit the OB slightly first.


Dr. Dave,
You posted the above in red, one says gearing inside english no throw, and the other one says inside english will throw!

Nowhere did I write "gearing inside english." That makes no sense whatsoever. The term "gearing" refers only to the amount of outside (not inside) english that results in absolutely no throw. Here's the definition from my online glossary of pool terms:

gearing outside English: the amount of outside English that results in no sliding between the cue ball and object ball during contact. Instead, during contact, the CB rolls on the OB like two meshing gears. The result is no throw.​

Much more info (including video demonstrations) can be found here:

outside english resource page​

Check out this page (including the videos) if you haven't done so yet. It might help clear some stuff up.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Gears have teeth, so they don't rub against each other. That's why the "gearing english" metaphor is used - it describes exactly enough outside english so the CB's surface rolls across the OB's surface like a ball rolling across the table with no slipping, sliding or rubbing (like two gears meshing).

If people want to see what this looks like with pool balls, the following video illustrates and explains it fairly well:

HSV B.33 - Outside English gearing, and cut and spin-induced throw​

Enjoy,
Dave

 

[ENGLISH!]

Hi Dave,

So it's more of a 'rolling effect' than an actual 'gear effect' because the center of the spin is not stationary or near stationary. The center of the CB spin is traveling along the tangent line, hence the CB is 'rolling on the OB' hence applying no or little collision induce throw. Is that correct or nearly correct?

Thanks in advance,

 

[swest]

PJ,

Sorry if I upset you. No need to be suggestively 'insulting'. It just seems to be a counterintuitive 'metaphor', similiar to the way 'pendulum' appears counterintuitive to describe any cue stroke.

Sorry again,

On the contrary, to me it seems completely intuitive, similar to the way the 'pendulum' simile is intuitive as a way to describe what a cue stroke can be like.

 

[ENGLISH!]

On the contrary, to me it seems completely intuitive, similar to the way the 'pendulum' simile is intuitive as a way to describe what a cue stroke can be like.

Mr. Spock raises an eyebrow, tilts his head and says, 'Interesting?'

 

[dr_dave]

By the way, there's a simple way to judge the amount of outside spin that will be gearing english for any cut angle (or perfect running english on a rail): visualize the point on the CB that's opposite the CB/OB (or CB/rail) contact point, then offset the tip a little less than halfway (about 40%) to that CB point. Here's a drawing illustrating the method for running english on a rail:

View attachment 248173

Awesome illustration. I hadn't seen that diagram before (although, I knew about the technique). FYI, I've added your image along with a link back to your post at the bottom of my english terminology resource page.

FYI, you inspired me to create a diagram showing how the same technique can used to visualize the amount of tip offset required for a gearing outside english cut shot. Here it is:

I've added this diagram to my outside english resource page with some additional information.

This technique is very useful when you need to use soft speed and/or stun to control and hold the CB, especially with clingy conditions.

Regards,
Dave