Your Feelings on the Miscue - Foul or No Foul?

Is a Miscue a Foul or Not?

  • Yes, it is a foul.

    Votes: 10 18.5%

  • No, its too tough to tell.

    Votes: 29 53.7%

  • Unsure.

    Votes: 6 11.1%

  • I like eating ice cream in the nude while watching American Idol.

    Votes: 9 16.7%
  • Total voters
    54
Fast Lenny

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
I am sitting here watching Earl Herring vs Oliver Ortmann and Oliver miscued but still makes his object ball, Earl calls a foul but the ref who was not there let it go, Oliver runs the 14.1 match out.

I was just curious if this is a foul or not since on a miscue the ferrule hits the cue ball, I am unsure if on a miscue that it always has the ferrule contacting the cue ball. It always bothers me when someone miscues and makes a ball and keeps shooting especially when the cue ball is jumped by a miscue. So what is your opinion on this? Poll also attached to vote on it. :cool:
 
I wanted to vote for the last option, but since no one else had responded to the post, I thought they might know it was me.

Isn't a "miscue" simply the tip not making solid contact with the cue ball? I always look at my tip after every miscue (as if it's the cue's fault...) and I see the mark on the edge of the tip, but never seemed to think it touched the ferrule.

I remember another thread where someone said they were going to miscue on purpose while playing a safety...the only reason it was called a foul was because he had said he was going to do it purposely.

So "accidental" miscues aren't a foul..."intentional" miscues are...yep, makes total sense to me...clear as mud!!!

Jason
 
Was a ball made on the miscued shot? Or, as in most cases, did the CB just roll off, and a legal shot not made?

Lisa
 
Fast Lenny said:
I am sitting here watching Earl Herring vs Oliver Ortmann and Oliver miscued but still makes his object ball, Earl calls a foul but the ref who was not there let it go, Oliver runs the 14.1 match out.

I was just curious if this is a foul or not since on a miscue the ferrule hits the cue ball, I am unsure if on a miscue that it always has the ferrule contacting the cue ball. It always bothers me when someone miscues and makes a ball and keeps shooting especially when the cue ball is jumped by a miscue. So what is your opinion on this? Poll also attached to vote on it. :cool:
Click to expand...

I can't vote in your poll, because there isn't an option "No, it isn't a miscue." I don't think its tough to tell. I know there are rules against *intentionally* miscuing, but my feeling is that if you miscue and make the ball, you probably stroked pretty straight to begin with. It is less obnoxious to me than crapping in a ball that you otherwise totally missed.

I am not sure, but I think that the ferrule does not touch the cueball in the majority of miscues. I'm sure it does on some though.

In any case, I don't think for consistency, *no* miscue in and of itself should be called a foul. If a miscue results in anything that would traditionally be called a foul (ball off table, hit wrong ball, etc.), obviously it would be a foul.

That is my opinion, fwiw.

KMRUNOUT
 
You don't have an option for "it depends". Some miscues are double hits, and those are fouls. Some miscues are just horrendously mis-hit, but you only hit them once, so they're not fouls. I'd say as long as the rest of the hit was clean and it wasn't an obvious double strike, a miscue can be considered a good hit.
 
If you watched The Mosconi Cup last year they were using a super slow motion camera. You could almost call a foul on every shot, the players executed. Where do you draw the line?
 
KMRUNOUT said:
I can't vote in your poll, because there isn't an option "No, it isn't a miscue." I don't think its tough to tell. I know there are rules against *intentionally* miscuing, but my feeling is that if you miscue and make the ball, you probably stroked pretty straight to begin with. It is less obnoxious to me than crapping in a ball that you otherwise totally missed.

I am not sure, but I think that the ferrule does not touch the cueball in the majority of miscues. I'm sure it does on some though.

In any case, I don't think for consistency, *no* miscue in and of itself should be called a foul. If a miscue results in anything that would traditionally be called a foul (ball off table, hit wrong ball, etc.), obviously it would be a foul.

That is my opinion, fwiw.

KMRUNOUT
Click to expand...

I pretty much subscribe to this line of reasoning. FWIW, I think since it is impossible to tell with the naked eye on a "watched" shot, they either need to make ALL miscues good hits or ALL miscues bad hits in league/tournament rules.

Maniac (leans more toward NOT calling one a foul)
 
could you change the american idol part to anything else, then i could vote. maybe top shot or something along those lines?

Mike
 
It's my understanding, and I believe someone already mentioned it, that only an intentional miscue is a foul.

There was a thread about a month ago where someone went and got a ref to 'call' a miscue before the shot in a tournament. The ref was forced to call a foul because it was obviously intentional.
 
There's no easy answer to this. The majority of miscues are likely technical fouls, meaning that the cb is probably hit with either the side of the tip or the ferrule, or both. How to call this is the tough part. I don't like rule changes that will obviously start more arguments, so I think the way we play is fine, ie misces aren't fouls. But ideally you'd want a good ref watching a match that would be able to call an obvious foul. This is what strickland was talking about, if the cb goes up it has probably been hit by the ferrule or at least side of the tip and this really should be a foul.
 
It's a solution without a problem. Until players start somehow taking advantage of miscues there's nothing to prevent.

pj
chgo
 
Fast Lenny said:
I am sitting here watching Earl Herring vs Oliver Ortmann and Oliver miscued but still makes his object ball, Earl calls a foul but the ref who was not there let it go, Oliver runs the 14.1 match out.

I was just curious if this is a foul or not since on a miscue the ferrule hits the cue ball, I am unsure if on a miscue that it always has the ferrule contacting the cue ball. It always bothers me when someone miscues and makes a ball and keeps shooting especially when the cue ball is jumped by a miscue. So what is your opinion on this? Poll also attached to vote on it. :cool:
Click to expand...

You may want to check out Rule 8.18 (definition of a miscue) as well as 6.16 (unsportsmanlike conduct).
 
As long as only the tip hits the ball it's a good shot. If any other part of the cue or your hand touch the CB it's a foul. Johnnyt
 
TheThaiger said:
Puzzled by this. How CAN a miscue be a foul?
Click to expand...
Well, if a part of the cue other than the tip visibly hits the ball, a miscue can be a foul. I've been known to miscue when the cue ball is frozen to the cushion in such a way that the stick rides up over the cue ball and at the end of my stroke the cue ball is trapped under the stick. That's a foul. And embarrassing. While I'm standing there with the cue ball trapped, I'm tempted to push it in a safe direction.

The problem is that on some miscues -- but not all -- the side of the stick comes in contact with the cue ball. This is quite clearly visible in the high-speed videos that have been made of miscues. This happens too quickly to see with the unaided eye. The current rule ignores the possibility of "ferrule slap" unless it is clearly visible.

Intentional miscues are unsportsmanlike conduct.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Well, if a part of the cue other than the tip visibly hits the ball, a miscue can be a foul. I've been known to miscue when the cue ball is frozen to the cushion in such a way that the stick rides up over the cue ball and at the end of my stroke the cue ball is trapped under the stick. That's a foul. And embarrassing. While I'm standing there with the cue ball trapped, I'm tempted to push it in a safe direction.

The problem is that on some miscues -- but not all -- the side of the stick comes in contact with the cue ball. This is quite clearly visible in the high-speed videos that have been made of miscues. This happens too quickly to see with the unaided eye. The current rule ignores the possibility of "ferrule slap" unless it is clearly visible.

Intentional miscues are unsportsmanlike conduct.
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks. I'd have put your cueball under the cue example down as a foul because it'd not touched another ball, but I see your point.
 
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