your opinion on gambling ethics
- Thread starter schon267
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You probably won't get invited to many cash games if you take off big pots and quit often.
You might not a like the idea of there being some unwritten rules that cover matching up but every one who likes to play for money does not like to match up with those who snipe and run.
If I know someone is like that then I either give them no action or make sure my exposure is small. As the saying goes I don't want you shooting toothpicks at my lumberyard.
HERE HERE, WE HAVE A WINNER LOL
I keep forgetting most guys on here are no gamble nits, you know who you are!
I know your a nit by what you post, they didn't make any stipulations about playing length of time, seeing how room closes at 2am, that says it right there, which is fine. I will explain it to you in a way you might could understand, but it's doubtful because your a nit too, like most people that post on here.
50.00 sets, when they drill us the first set 7-1, there up 50 a man, when we win second set 7-4, were even. they quit, the problem is that we were willing to lose 2 sets for sure, 100 a piece, maybe more. they on the other hand were not willing to lose 1 set. so in addition to giving them a spot, we were also giving them odds on the money too. so call it what you like, no gamble, being a nit, which is what it is, or whatever you like. I personally show some gamble and be willing to lose 2 sets of whatever i'm betting. we did like the game, but it was no lock, it's scotch doubles. his birthday was just an excuse to get out of the game, his partner wanted to keep playing. if his birthday ws an issue, he shouldn't have played to start.
so don't worry about having no gamble, it's just who you are, and most people on here. if you think I'm so in the wrong, why don't you ask chris bartrum what he thinks?
And, while this may be true.
Who's fault is it if someone doesn't take the time to negotiate the terms before a game is played, and things don't go according to planned?
There ARE no unwritten rules. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY, the terms should be discussed and agreed to beforehand.
If someone isn't smart enough to know that, they really shouldn't be gambling, and shouldn't be complaining when things didnt go how they thought they should.
If people were to open their mouths and figure things out before hand, they would rarely ever have problems
Saying that it's ok to quit a guy winner without stating a set time is retarded. Only short set low ballers would agree to that. Do you honestly think guys like bartrum , shane , incardona , frost or alex would agree with that logic not a chance. I grew up with the same people the OP did and they were all old school gamblers. Old men that would play for days before they would quit you winner. We just grew up with real gamblers and most people don't have any heart anymore sad but true.
In the 60's and 70's, there was a 'code' of sorts. You didnt quit winner unless you gave a player a change to at least get even. Players quit winner every day here in va. They think playing 3-4 races to 7 is a 'long' time. Players back then came to the pool room to gamble! The myth of a 'friendly' bet was a hustle. Players who quit winner or took a short shot at you, didnt get action. I give every player 1 shot at me. If he 'short shots' me or plays 3-4 games or 1-2 races and quits winner, he gets no more action, unless he freezes up the cash and plays an ahead set. When a player hit & runs you, hes actually doing you a favor. Hes telling you hes a nit, quiting you winner for not much cash. You should say thank you, you saved me money! Its become common place around here to quit winner, so its hard to gamble. Too bad. Gambling is why I got into pool, and why now I dont play much.
Nit sayings: You got to get it back the same way you lost it
: We played 3 races to 7, thats a long session
: The ( insert 'wife; 'work' 'mom' ) called, I got to go ( hes 3 games up )
Nit sayings: You got to get it back the same way you lost it
: We played 3 races to 7, thats a long session
: The ( insert 'wife; 'work' 'mom' ) called, I got to go ( hes 3 games up )
They very well may have been willing to lose two sets, had you won the first two. I don't know. I guess your assuming not. I understand perfectly the "math" your trying to use. It's the same "math" that idiots in poker use to make calls "because they already have money in the pot."
I believe "nits" are usually created. It is annoying to a lot of people that if they agree to play a set and win, they are then expected to keep the loser company for an infinite amount of time until that guy chooses to quit. God forbid your in a 24hr pool room. It makes people not want to take action. Oddly enough there's a lot of people who don't want to spend their entire night with what is usually a degenerate gambler.
With all that being said there are some things that come off bad. A guy earlier used "leaving a poker table whenever you want" as an example. BAD example. You sit down on a table and when a big hand vs. someone, and then you get up and leave, there will be shit spoken. Yes your "allowed" to leave, but its a punk move to hit and run. There's times I've been playing for awhile and about to leave, but then I hit big vs. someone. It's happen where I planned on leaving after that hand, but now I'm stuck playing for awhile so I'm not "that guy."
I get the quit winner crap. I get the quit even crap. I even get the silly math that "you were willing to lose more." What some people seem to forget is that for some its not really about the money. It's competition, and some people have a life outside of $50 a man sets. Sometimes you want to just throw these people $50 in jelly to shut up and stop crying.
Oh, and one more thing.
Are we now kid brothers with a disagreement, and we need to run to mommy to fun out who's right?
Why would I care who Chris bartrum agrees with? Is he now the leading expert on gambling ethics, and the unwritten rules of pool & billiards?
Is that how you sort your life? When I don't know what's right I must ask Chris bartrum? Hell, JB cases might agree with you as well you your really super duper right. Come on man seriously. I thought more of you before you were trying to validate yourself by name dropping. Grow up.
If not maybe I should go and see if I can get Efren to say quiting even is okay. Would you just assume your wrong if I did?
But you got your chance to win your money back from first set though....and lost......you can't complain about him not giving you a chance.
Besides, when you lost your money first time around, that's his money. He can do whatever he wants with it. It would be nice to give you another chance to win back the money but that's his money and that's his call.
Hey, it would be nice to own big mansions and ferarris and private jet planes too. But I can't Bi*ch about them just because I don't have them.
I don't care about how it was in the old days when it comes to this "unwritten rule". The old days has a lot of good things. This one I couldn't care less about. Wagering till someone goes broke just sounds stupid to me. Oh well, I guess being known to "have gamble" matters more to guys like you.
Besides, when you lost your money first time around, that's his money. He can do whatever he wants with it. It would be nice to give you another chance to win back the money but that's his money and that's his call.
Hey, it would be nice to own big mansions and ferarris and private jet planes too. But I can't Bi*ch about them just because I don't have them.
I don't care about how it was in the old days when it comes to this "unwritten rule". The old days has a lot of good things. This one I couldn't care less about. Wagering till someone goes broke just sounds stupid to me. Oh well, I guess being known to "have gamble" matters more to guys like you.
I understand what you and the OP are saying, as do most people here. What you fellas seem to not understand is that MOST people DIDNT grow up with the same 'old school gamblers' as YOU personally did, therefore not everybody is playing by what you guys perceive to be a given (your assumptions as to what the unwritten rules of gambling are). Maybe the guys you were playing did also, and should know the same unwritten rules you obide by, but we have no way of knowing that. And if they DIDNT, then THEY have no way of knowing what YOUR personal rules to gambling are...
If your competitors DID know the (your) rules, then I agree with you, they pulled up limp on you and you have a right to be mad... But from the OP's original post, it seems at least one of the other guys wasn't a 'regular', and therefore I wouldn't expect him to know the rules you guys play by. If he didn't know, and it wasn't stated beforehand, then he isn't wrong. You are for getting mad about it, when all you had to do is take a freaking minute to state the rules of the gamble..
All most people here are disagreeing with you about, is that if the (your) rules were not stated beforehand, then there ARE NO RULES... If someone comes into my place that I've never seen before and wants to play me, even for no money, I always make sure we're playing by the same set of rules..
Saturday night a guy came in who I've never seen before. Came right over and asked my buddy who would play for $100 a game, he pointed to me. I had just started playing $20 a game, and was only ahead 3-0. The guy I was playing said 'I'm cool, go ahead', so I told him I'd give em' action, and said $100 a game, minimum 3 ahead, post up. He looked at me like I just spoke Greek to him! Everyone around me knew exactly what I meant, but i had to explain it to this guy. He said he never heard of anything like that, and he'd play $100 a game, that's it... We've all been there before and know it's either beat this guy in probably the only game he was gonna play and take the $100, or argue about it and not make anything when he walks away. I made the $100 and went back to my other guy. Point is, If I didn't stipulate the gamble beforehand I wouldn't have know what he was willing to do. I could have slow rolled him the first few games (I wouldn't have), trying juice it large down the line only to have him get up a game and walk. I would have been just as mad as the OP was/is, BUT at MYSELF, not him, for not laying out the gamble and getting it posted...
By the way, I grew up with the same type of old school gamblers you did. I would NEVER brag about being just like them, like they were something to emulate and look up to. Those guys, and their the same guys no matter where your from, we're the biggest losers I've ever saw! All they did was take money from one another and pass it back to each other with every gamble they did. Never got ahead for long enough to do anything with it except pay the the juice from last week's big loss (be it pool, football, boxing, basketball, machines, whatever..) that they had to borrow. The shy's made actual money from these crumb bum bottom feeders, and cleaned it the right way. Years later the 'old school gamblers' were still doing the same broke down routine, just paying a new set of shy's, while the old Shy's were able to get out and live comfortably, and not worry about where their next meal was coming from.... A shy took me aside one day when I was real young, and told me to look at that guy (Northside Bob, the best player around my area back then). I said ya, he's the best. He said he's a bum. He can beat anybody in this place with one arm, but look at his clothes, where's his car, look at where he lives (rent by the week, one room place), and ask yourself why is that? Then he said look at me, my clothes (always 3-piece suits), my car (caddie of course), and my house (real nice for the area back then)... Point was made.. Nuff said.
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That's rite, I play cheap like that, even a re break playin one hole sometimes. That's social pool
I was more less referring to the people posting about quitting winner whenever they wanted. I'm not saying they don't have the right to because it is there money. I'm just saying that if you consider yourself a gambling man you don't pull moves like that. The OP was more upset about the guys barking at him and flashing bankrolls in his face and then taking a short shot. Quitting even would of been more exceptable if they had played for awhile say 4 sets. When he said friendly he meant they all new each other. I love to play pool and gamble but I have a job that supports my family so I didn't turn out like the guys I grew up around but when I get in the grease I respect my opponent like I would want to be respected. That's just my opinion everybody has the right to there's.
Why play anyone that such has to be stated? That is where the problem bigns anyway.
Because in a lot of areas nowadays you wouldn't ever be playing. Most of us like to play for something every time we play, myself included, and not everybody has a hall with good action 24/7. Locals all know each others speed, and it's like pulling teeth to get a fair game from each other. Everybody is always edging to get ridiculous weight on each other and then the only thing that happens is an hour of yappin back and forth and no game. Its a waste of my time, so I'll play whoever will easily make a game with me without all the BS. These are usually guys from another area there for a league night, or younger guys just looking to measure up to see where their at, and learn a few things at the same time. These guys aren't gonna play for more than $5 a game, or $20 a set at the most, and definitely ain't gonna play all night. I already know that and don't care. I just wanna play, and have something, anything, to play for.. I give em good weight, and sometimes good odds on the money as well. Its a fair game for them and they know it so I'm steady playin for something while all the local wannabe shortstops are steady arguing with each other.
But I always make sure lay down the rules before hand...
JC
Coos Cues
I'm a no gamble nit by your definition.
But it's better than being a no job having, car sleeping (if they even have a driver's license), child support owing, backer needing loser. Probably some of those around here too. And they also know who they are.
Or sadly enough, they may not know who they are.
JC
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Well Rain. We wern't around the same 'old school' players I guess. There were some, like you said, that stayed broke, but more than a few made good money and used it well ( Wimpy, Pete Margo, Buddy Hall, Eddie Taylor, Larry Hubbard, The Miz, Cooney, Shriver, Rempe, Bernie Schwartz,etc ).
They and every pool player in the country came to Weenie Beenie's place sooner or later. I had a ring side seat, every nite, for 9 yrs, and it was amazing to watch.
I guess you have to have a desire for action to be there nite after nite, and I did. I was afraid to leave, I might miss something!...lol. It was a great time for pool and I'm glad I was a part of it. You can learn a lot from pool players, even the 'degenerate' ones.
They and every pool player in the country came to Weenie Beenie's place sooner or later. I had a ring side seat, every nite, for 9 yrs, and it was amazing to watch.
I guess you have to have a desire for action to be there nite after nite, and I did. I was afraid to leave, I might miss something!...lol. It was a great time for pool and I'm glad I was a part of it. You can learn a lot from pool players, even the 'degenerate' ones.
Even playing with friends for low stakes, we've always taken a few seconds to confirm number of sets, length of race, amount wagered, who pays table time, etc.
Better to spend the 30 seconds to ensure we're on the same page than risk a misunderstanding later.
Seems like the thread is taking two different directions.
Nit 1 - Some are saying if you don't gamble like they did in the old days, you're a nit.
Nit 2 - The OP and others don't believe you can quit winner or quit even, etc You can only quit when the other has all your money.
My opinion is you can't label someone a Nit by 1 nights actions. If they are a Nit in one night, they are insignificant to you in the gambling scene and don't deserve further discussions. Because you won't gamble with them again because they are nits.
If I gambled with someone, I did it rather frequently. So if they left with my money one week, I would see them again the next week. Where I would get a chance to get my money back. If they frequently quit winner, it's probably because I couldn't beat them. Whether it was short time or long time. If they had my money, there was a problem.
So I have a choice to call them a Nit or look myself in the mirror and call myself an idiot. Easier to call other people names, right?
And for the record, yes I do think you should win it back the same way you lost it. If you always double up the bet, and never quit winner, there's a lot of pool being played where no people are making anything except the tables.
Nit 1 - Some are saying if you don't gamble like they did in the old days, you're a nit.
Nit 2 - The OP and others don't believe you can quit winner or quit even, etc You can only quit when the other has all your money.
My opinion is you can't label someone a Nit by 1 nights actions. If they are a Nit in one night, they are insignificant to you in the gambling scene and don't deserve further discussions. Because you won't gamble with them again because they are nits.
If I gambled with someone, I did it rather frequently. So if they left with my money one week, I would see them again the next week. Where I would get a chance to get my money back. If they frequently quit winner, it's probably because I couldn't beat them. Whether it was short time or long time. If they had my money, there was a problem.
So I have a choice to call them a Nit or look myself in the mirror and call myself an idiot. Easier to call other people names, right?
And for the record, yes I do think you should win it back the same way you lost it. If you always double up the bet, and never quit winner, there's a lot of pool being played where no people are making anything except the tables.