Probably a stupid idea...but worth a shot

nathandumoulin

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
As the subject line states, this is probably a stupid idea...but for some reason I can't quite think of WHY its stupid.

We all use leather tips, and apply chalk. But wouldnt rubber be far more effective? A hard rubber tip wouldnt need chalk, and could be made from used tires or something of the sort.

(should be interesting to see what obvious factors make this a bad idea)
 
Rubber compresses more than leather. You'd have a lot of "bounce" upon impact, and so unless your stroke is dead straight, there's a substantial chance to throw the cueball when you hit with english. It'd be too "high-deflection" to implement.
 
jcommie said:
Rubber compresses more than leather. You'd have a lot of "bounce" upon impact, and so unless your stroke is dead straight, there's a substantial chance to throw the cueball when you hit with english. It'd be too "high-deflection" to implement.
Click to expand...

Thats why I suggested a hard rubber. Or perhaps there's only one density of rubber? Either way, you make a good point.
 
I think the solution to what jcommie mentioned would be a thin layer of rubber over the leather - only to take advantage of the surface.

However, I guess that the problem would be where the advantage is - at the same time. The rubber would hold onto the CB for a longer period of time but therefore it would throw it a lot more as well - this is pretty much what jcommie said but my point is that this would not be due to the different hardness (softness) of rubber but the surface and contact time of it, instead.

I could be totally wrong here so anyone with knowledge on this topic: I am very open to any corrections, as always.
 
I guess I am getting old and stubborn. I simply have more confidence in natural products. It may not be too dumb. Who would have thought of phenolic tips would have a purpose. I'll bet if someone got into looking at this there would be laminations of different hardnesses in an attempt to simulate the action of leather.

Your question reminds me of when I saw a room owner hitting a ball on a GC that he didn't have time to put any rail cloth on before opening. The ball for some reason had absolutely no predictability. It bounced in all directions kinda like a Super Ball with English reversing like a Monster Masse shot. Totally Nuts.
 
nathandumoulin said:
Thats why I suggested a hard rubber. Or perhaps there's only one density of rubber? Either way, you make a good point.
Click to expand...

I have always, always thought about this. Some synthetic material, shaped, made porous to create some sort of consistent friction.

But, this game is old school. And maybe another reason why it has such a hard time gaining momentum.
 
Ruber tips have been tried before. I have tried some very fine abrasive filled rubber, worked great for a short time , untill the rubber just started to breakdown and not hit consistantly. I used the very fine cratex round .
Other materials like urathane red after time just started to fracture. Both were a soft hit and english was not a problem. The real problem was consistancy and life of the tip.
There may be better types of rubber componds available now.
I think there is someone making synthetic tips. If this is true and that anyone knows the maker or knows a supply I would like to try some.Pm or email doc@hnpl.net
Hope this helps you.
Neil Lickfold
 
there is or was a synthetic tip

There is, or was just a few years ago, a synthetic playing tip. There is another one with just enough ground up leather in it to claim to be a leather tip since many rule books specify leather tips.

In my opinion there is no reason that an equally well playing synthetic tip couldn't be developed that would be far more consistent from tip to tip than leather tips are. The layered tips, milk duds and other treated tips, compressing tips in manufacturing or afterwards, all of these things are in an effort to increase the consistency of tips although they may serve other purposes also.

I don't think the idea is stupid at all. The hold-ups are the time and dollars required for research unless the perfect material is just stumbled on and the rule books. Cue tips are such a niche market that nobody can pour millions into developing one.

Hu




nathandumoulin said:
As the subject line states, this is probably a stupid idea...but for some reason I can't quite think of WHY its stupid.

We all use leather tips, and apply chalk. But wouldnt rubber be far more effective? A hard rubber tip wouldnt need chalk, and could be made from used tires or something of the sort.

(should be interesting to see what obvious factors make this a bad idea)
Click to expand...
 
Not rubber! FLUBBER!!

No we should use flubber. The first flubber tips should be for the jump/break cue, just imagine the effect it would have. The cue ball rocketing off the flubber tip at the speed only available by the new flubberized, super sonic, speed of light break tips. You and your friends will be amazed at the jump shots that would now be possible also, like the over the light shot for instance. I will be contacting Disney in the very near future to obtain exclusive rights to the flubber patent for use on these tips. More to follow....
 
a note on history...

3kushn said:
I guess I am getting old and stubborn. I simply have more confidence in natural products. It may not be too dumb. Who would have thought of phenolic tips would have a purpose. I'll bet if someone got into looking at this there would be laminations of different hardnesses in an attempt to simulate the action of leather.

Your question reminds me of when I saw a room owner hitting a ball on a GC that he didn't have time to put any rail cloth on before opening. The ball for some reason had absolutely no predictability. It bounced in all directions kinda like a Super Ball with English reversing like a Monster Masse shot. Totally Nuts.
Click to expand...

yeah, well while I know that modern rubber is synthetic, rubber itself IS a natural substance.....

Jaden
 
For anyone thinking about rubber

I will tell you to go out and get some big industrial size rubberband.

Take it and stretch it over the tip so that the tip is completely covered (hence the industrial size) and stretch it down and tie it off on the shaft somehow (it's not that hard)

Then try and shoot with it.

You will soon find out that unless your stroke is absolutely perfect, that you are going to have a hard time making the cue ball go forward, let alone, trying to pocket something or put spin on something.

It's actually a great training tool if you want to straighten your stroke out.

Just see how many balls you can run like this.

Then rethink the question about rubber a rubber tip.
 
sometime in the last 5-10 years, someone was selling chalkless tips. maybe i saw in ad in one of the pool ads. i bought a few to try out. they hit well, but left black marks on my nice green table cloth. i trashed them.
 
conetip said:
Ruber tips have been tried before. I have tried some very fine abrasive filled rubber, worked great for a short time , untill the rubber just started to breakdown and not hit consistantly. I used the very fine cratex round .
Other materials like urathane red after time just started to fracture. Both were a soft hit and english was not a problem. The real problem was consistancy and life of the tip.
There may be better types of rubber componds available now.
I think there is someone making synthetic tips. If this is true and that anyone knows the maker or knows a supply I would like to try some.Pm or email doc@hnpl.net
Hope this helps you.
Neil Lickfold
Click to expand...
We picked up a few sample rubber tips from a vendor at the BCA show a long time ago.
As I recall they were difficult to work with even with a cue lathe.
Guess they bombed since nobody I know in the billiards business sells them.
Here's some made of polyurethane.
 
If someone were to come up with the right formula, we really could say goodbye to chalk forever. That'd be sweet.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
I will tell you to go out and get some big industrial size rubberband.

Take it and stretch it over the tip so that the tip is completely covered (hence the industrial size) and stretch it down and tie it off on the shaft somehow (it's not that hard)

Then try and shoot with it.

You will soon find out that unless your stroke is absolutely perfect, that you are going to have a hard time making the cue ball go forward, let alone, trying to pocket something or put spin on something.

It's actually a great training tool if you want to straighten your stroke out.

Just see how many balls you can run like this.

Then rethink the question about rubber a rubber tip.
Click to expand...


That's funny. In the last five minutes before reading your post I just did this. I used two medium thickness rubber bands. One I stretched tight over the tip. The other I wrapped many times around the shaft two inches from the tip. The second held the first taut and in place.

Results were exactly as you say.
 
Impact Blue said:
If someone were to come up with the right formula, we really could say goodbye to chalk forever. That'd be sweet.
Click to expand...

Sort of reminds me of societies effort to switch to electric automobiles. Some poor guy comes up with the perfect chalkless tip, only to be bought out by a chalk conglomerate....and then the chalkess tips mysteriously disappears from the market :p
 
I have no doubt a chalkless tip is more then possible! But, the powers that be would want to sqwash that idea ASAP!IMO

Leather tips are nothing but a PITA that need shapers, burnishers, picks, scuffers, sand paper....etc....all those businesses would suffer without the leather tip.

If I could pay $50 for a life time tip?.....no question....sold!


Gerry<<<<tired of the whole archaic tip maintenance deal....

G.
 
mikepage said:
That's funny. In the last five minutes before reading your post I just did this. I used two medium thickness rubber bands. One I stretched tight over the tip. The other I wrapped many times around the shaft two inches from the tip. The second held the first taut and in place.

Results were exactly as you say.
Click to expand...

I was first told bout this when a cuemaker was talking about strokes.
He then put the rubber band on and i might have made like 1 out of 20 HANGER/DUCK shots.
All the others, there was this THUNK noise, and the cue ball would go flying off to the side of the shaft, and roll completely off line cause it slipped off the ball.

That led me to using this every now and then, to dial in my stroke, as the ONLY way to make the cue ball go, is to hit it perfect.

So after learning how to hit it, i then tried to add things like spin, and watched as the cue balls slid off and THUNKED again.
After a while, i got the hang of it, and once the rubber band was taken off, it seemed like i was hitting things very cleanly.

Keep at it.
 
I still have a few rubber tips they work fine great for breaking on a 7' bar box. Only real problem with them is you dont feel the when your tip hits the cue ball everyone trying it felt like they were throwing their arm out of socket after 20 breaks. the 9 ball flows to a pocket almost every break. Alot of times it would leave smudge marks on the Q-ball so you had to clean it alot.

Craig
 
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