How Would You Play This? 7/7/09

Rail First

billbOK said:
This is what has come to my mind as I first saw the layout

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In order to avoid the concerns stated about making the five on the combination, I'd probably shoot this option by playing the 1 rail first into the five. The angle created assists the cue ball in getting to the side rail, and the five ball becomes an additional blocker as well.

I also like Aze's safety. It's really simple and if you know the speed of the table, can be really effective.

Some of the other posts, keep in mind that the rails are really bouncy, playing object ball speed one rail like that is very difficult. Interesting posts thus far though. :cool:
 
I think all the safes posted are a bit too riskey. I would just as soon fire on the combo then run out what looks like an easy table then to sell out on a tough safe.If you go for and make a few real tough shots it tends to put a little fear in to your opponent.
 
mia said:
I don't know. Maybe its just me. But this doesn't even seem like something that I would consider for even a minute. I mean, hitting the 1 into the 5 leaves way too much to chance.

1) In order to get the cueball to go across table and into the rail from that angle, you're going to need to give this a bit of a stroke. Your 5 ball will end up a good 2-3 feet further than you show it here.
2) The angle could be off just a bit and you make the 5.
3) The angle could be off just a bit and you send the 5 two rails into the 6. And even if you move the 6 just a hair, the shot is no longer safe.
4) Hitting the ball at this speed also means that your cueball my travel some, even if just an inch or so. And well, why would you want to risk that?
5) You would have to hit the ball so perfect to make this shot 'safe' by freezing it on or even getting it close to the 7. Otherwise, the shot isn't very safe. A jump cue makes the hit. A kick makes the hit. Depending on who you're playing, you might not want them getting to the table with this.
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6) If you need to control 2 (or more?!) balls, you better look for a different safe
7) In that example, the 5 could kiss the CB and ruin a "great" plan
8) you could under hit the CB and have the misfortune of the 1 ball sitting in front of the pocket
9) You could misjudge the CB tangent slightly and scratch


Eric >likes a different option
 
Firstly, I'm sure the original layout was more difficult than this regardless of the equipment. From what I hear about Jude's speed, if the layout was 100% what this diagram shows you'd just run-out unless the pockets were joke-tight.

I think some of these safeties are really far-fetched. Maybe it was Blackjack who said "I never missed a safe on a cuetable diagram" LMFAO--- my thoughts exactly.

If you guys were playing for big $$$$$ no one here is going to do ridiculous kick-combos or repositioning all these balls..... you're gonna slow-roll the CB and freeze to the 5 and send the OB somewhere near the center of the short rail. Someone else said that was too risky--- no way. If you can't freeze to the 5 "AT WILL" here you need to practice this until you can.

From here and playing safe, I'm not saying I have locks on getting BIH on my next inning--- but I'm 95%+ that my opponent is lining up a kick from where I leave him.
 
sjm said:
T execute the safety I advocate, you need to know how to use a little touch stun follow as you play a medium-firm hit on the one, as follows. You'll only get the hook some of the time, but with the right speed, you'll leave the one on the top rail for a decent result even if you miss the hook.

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I like this one. If you miss the hook you leave distance and and no pocket. I also like Patrick's too but if you miss the hook, you would leave a shot most likely up table. All the others are very touchy and Jude said he was playing on a very "bouncey", tight table. Hard to judge those touch shots when you're playing on bouncey rails.

Dave
 
sjm said:
T execute the safety I advocate, you need to know how to use a little touch stun follow as you play a medium-firm hit on the one, as follows. You'll only get the hook some of the time, but with the right speed, you'll leave the one on the top rail for a decent result even if you miss the hook.

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I like this one. It seems fairly simple to get the one to that location and the hook would be a bonus. I like leaving the distance if you don't get the hook.
 
Another option- not as effective as SJM's because you will probably be able to see the 1. But, it does leave a difficult shot because you have to shoot over the 5.

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frankncali said:

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This is the shot imo. and patrick's one.
I loled at 4 pages of kick safeties, combo safeties , shot the 1 into the 5 so precise that you stun the 1 ball, while the CB hides perfectly behind the 7... if you can do that, just make the 1-5. Its not that hard.
keep it simple.
 
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Neil said:
Spidey: Have you tried this shot?? I have, and, while it is easy to freeze to the 5, I cannot do so while leaving the 1 near the rail. It always comes out for a shot on it. You can't use a half ball hit and still get to the 5. So, how are you hitting it at the angle necessary for the freeze and still killing the 1??
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No - I didn't try it. I just armchair-quarterback-responded. You can't aim for the backside of the 1 and kill it on this shot? I have to say it looks easy from here but let me try it and report back in all fairness. I get a tendency to see my move in a second and that's that (hard to really tell on these 2D diagrams).

Dave
 
My Bad...sorry

I must say the moment I set it up on a real table, I knew my initial safe was no good (as Neil suggested). When you look at these 2D diagrams that are a few inches in size, you completely lack the depth perception of the shot. When I looked at it on my laptop, it looks like there's way more runway than there really is.

Now that I set it up and shot it a few times in my basement.....now I'm REALLY confused. Why on earth didn't Jude just run out?

When I set it up, I ran out my first two attempts with the combo and I figure that's the answer. The 1B comes off the side rail after making the 5 and stops pretty consistently a diamond and a half over - depending on your speed. I used low-right to come off the side rail and you're perfect every time. Out from there.

My safety here is to just run out....final answer, Regis.

Edit: On my first and only safety attempt I tried to hit the 1 into the 5, stopping the 1, while sending the CB behind the ball at the top left of the diagram... I ended up making the combo inadvertently. Once I made it without trying, I figured I'd see what happened if I tried the combo-- and it wasn't hard on 4.5" pockets (GC4).
 
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Jude Rosenstock said:
So I've been playing a bit more lately and I guess my recent enthusiasm has motivated me to post a shot that came up today which I thought was very interesting. Game is 9-ball, equipment is bouncy and tight which is why I decided not to play the combination here.

It took me a moment or two to come up with a decent safety idea and I was actually a bit surprised I managed to pull it off. Assuming we're on defense, how would you play this?

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If you use the 30 degree rule and a half ball hit on the left side of the one ball and barely have the cue ball hit the rail, YOU SHOULD BE GOOD TO GO. The cue should be frozen or close to the five ball.


JoeyA

JoeyA
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
So I've been playing a bit more lately and I guess my recent enthusiasm has motivated me to post a shot that came up today which I thought was very interesting. Game is 9-ball, equipment is bouncy and tight which is why I decided not to play the combination here.

It took me a moment or two to come up with a decent safety idea and I was actually a bit surprised I managed to pull it off. Assuming we're on defense, how would you play this?

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Bank the one up table between the 3 & 8 and follow off the side rail and behind the six.
 
Wow, a lot of answers here!


The reason I posted this shot had to do with how common such a situation is in 9ball. Seriously, I must've seen this layout a thousand times and yesterday, I just looked at the shot differently than I think I ever have before. I've probably played (or attempted to play) most of the safeties posted here over the years. Yesterday, I took the exact route SJM posted and I thought, "DUH, it's a standard safety with a twist. Use the side-rail to get to the end rail."

Safety play is very much a war of escalation. As you get better, your opponents get better and as that happens, your safeties become less and less effective. Safeties that might be effective as you go through the intermediate stages are not going to be as effective as you go through the advanced stages and so forth. Because of this, situations that can be very common will eventually lead to new answers. Sometimes these answers are correct and sometimes there is added risk with the assumption that your improvement will make up for the needed extra talent. Sometimes, you'll just be asking too much of yourself.

Like I said, prior to yesterday, I never thought about playing this safety. I figured I needed to bank the 1ball in a very specific way which would not be terribly difficult. From there, it was a matter of deciding if I could follow the cueball down to the end rail and get the hook behind the 6. At the very least, I figured I could easily get the cueball to the endrail without incident which made the risk worthwhile. If I failed to hook the cueball, I would be leaving a nice distance safety for my opponent to manage. If I got the hook, I could anticipate ball-in-hand.

The end result was a successful safety behind the 6 and a subsequent BIH. Unfortunately, I cannot say this justifies my play, only that it justified my decision YESTERDAY. Tomorrow might be another story. Thanks guys. I'll try to keep 'em coming.
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Wow, a lot of answers here!


The reason I posted this shot had to do with how common such a situation is in 9ball. Seriously, I must've seen this layout a thousand times and yesterday, I just looked at the shot differently than I think I ever have before. I've probably played (or attempted to play) most of the safeties posted here over the years. Yesterday, I took the exact route SJM posted and I thought, "DUH, it's a standard safety with a twist. Use the side-rail to get to the end rail."

Safety play is very much a war of escalation. As you get better, your opponents get better and as that happens, your safeties become less and less effective. Safeties that might be effective as you go through the intermediate stages are not going to be as effective as you go through the advanced stages and so forth. Because of this, situations that can be very common will eventually lead to new answers. Sometimes these answers are correct and sometimes there is added risk with the assumption that your improvement will make up for the needed extra talent. Sometimes, you'll just be asking too much of yourself.

Like I said, prior to yesterday, I never thought about playing this safety. I figured I needed to bank the 1ball in a very specific way which would not be terribly difficult. From there, it was a matter of deciding if I could follow the cueball down to the end rail and get the hook behind the 6. At the very least, I figured I could easily get the cueball to the endrail without incident which made the risk worthwhile. If I failed to hook the cueball, I would be leaving a nice distance safety for my opponent to manage. If I got the hook, I could anticipate ball-in-hand.

The end result was a successful safety behind the 6 and a subsequent BIH. Unfortunately, I cannot say this justifies my play, only that it justified my decision YESTERDAY. Tomorrow might be another story. Thanks guys. I'll try to keep 'em coming.
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Well played, Jude. Next time we shoot together, remind me not to leave you in this position!
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Wow, a lot of answers here!


The reason I posted this shot had to do with how common such a situation is in 9ball. Seriously, I must've seen this layout a thousand times and yesterday, I just looked at the shot differently than I think I ever have before. I've probably played (or attempted to play) most of the safeties posted here over the years. Yesterday, I took the exact route SJM posted and I thought, "DUH, it's a standard safety with a twist. Use the side-rail to get to the end rail."

Safety play is very much a war of escalation. As you get better, your opponents get better and as that happens, your safeties become less and less effective. Safeties that might be effective as you go through the intermediate stages are not going to be as effective as you go through the advanced stages and so forth. Because of this, situations that can be very common will eventually lead to new answers. Sometimes these answers are correct and sometimes there is added risk with the assumption that your improvement will make up for the needed extra talent. Sometimes, you'll just be asking too much of yourself.

Like I said, prior to yesterday, I never thought about playing this safety. I figured I needed to bank the 1ball in a very specific way which would not be terribly difficult. From there, it was a matter of deciding if I could follow the cueball down to the end rail and get the hook behind the 6. At the very least, I figured I could easily get the cueball to the endrail without incident which made the risk worthwhile. If I failed to hook the cueball, I would be leaving a nice distance safety for my opponent to manage. If I got the hook, I could anticipate ball-in-hand.

The end result was a successful safety behind the 6 and a subsequent BIH. Unfortunately, I cannot say this justifies my play, only that it justified my decision YESTERDAY. Tomorrow might be another story. Thanks guys. I'll try to keep 'em coming.
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Other than your shot selection (j/k) your thought process is SUPER.
Thanks for sharing what was going through your mind.

That's what I like to hear from players, not what they did but why they did what they did. :smile:

JoeyA
 
stuckart said:
I definitely wouldn't try this one. You have to stop the cueball exactly on the 5 ball or completely hide the 1 behind the 6 for it to be safe. Else you leave a really easy safe back that loses you the game.
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Given the close proximity to the 1 ball AND the 5 ball, and the nature of the angle, getting the cueball to stop on the 5 shouldn't be too much if any trouble at all. Its actually a C level safe. Not tricky in the least. And MUCH more plausible than some of the other safety attempts people have diagrammed here.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
If you guys were playing for big $$$$$ no one here is going to do ridiculous kick-combos or repositioning all these balls..... you're gonna slow-roll the CB and freeze to the 5 and send the OB somewhere near the center of the short rail. Someone else said that was too risky--- no way. If you can't freeze to the 5 "AT WILL" here you need to practice this until you can.
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Great post.
I agree 100%. Its the easiest shot on the table. Any other safety attempt may be possible, but risky and unneccessary.

As for Neil's inquiry about how to freeze to the 5 without bring the 1 off the rail, you don't need to freeze the 1 ball to the rail. There is a gap indicating that the 5 is OFF the rail. Park whitey in that gap and you'll make the hit near impossible as you'll have to shoot PAST the 5 to come back and make a hit at the 1.

I'm gonna have to try this myself to see how easy it is. But from where I'm sitting (behind a PC monitor :smile: ) it looks easy enough. Of course, nothing is EVER as easy as it seems. lol
 
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