CTE ... the complete story

[dr_dave]

If you have put in alot of time with Stan and still do not understand I do not think I could help you. Besides your asking for info that is taught by an instructor for a living and I do not see you giving out the secret aiming lesson you recieved from GENE, nor would I ask you too.

Providing a description of CTE or PERFECT AIM does not in any way diminish the value of a private lesson with a good instructor. The value isn't in the information, IMO. The value is in the one-on-one individualized help and coaching. Do you think people pay for a lesson because they think they will receive magical silver-bullet information that will make them better? Maybe some people do, but I think most people expect more.

Regards,
Dave

PS: "PERFECT AIM" is not a silver bullet either. It is an approach to identifying and placing your dominant eye, and being aware of your vision for different types of shots, and shifting your head and vision on certain shots. IMO, the value Gene provides isn't the information ... it is the one-on-one coaching and interaction. Good instructors don't try to sell information, IMO. From what I've heard, I'm sure Stan is also a great instructor. He also seemed like a very nice person on the phone.

 

[cookie man]

"magical silver-bullet information" is a phrase that I don't think should ever be used. You go to an instructor for good solid info and Pro-One or CTE is just that. I don't think putting info on a DVD and selling it is a sign of a bad instructor(Good instructors don't try to sell information), I think they have good info and are trying to get it out while making a living. If I get a 2-hour DVD and it has just One 5-minute part that helps improve my game than it was probably worth it,IMO. Still personal instruction is probably the best way to go. What I don't understand is people have spent 10 minutes on the phone with HAL and picked up the basics of CTE, but you didn't seem to be able to. This doesn't meen its bad info, diferent strokes for different folks.

 

[klockdoc]

Several people have done this in the past. I believe it is possible to find them using the search function. I would give you the links but I don't have to the time to search them out. I believe that the user SpiderWeb or something like that has done two videos, one which explains CTE and the other where he posts a fairly difficult drill that he scores particularly high on presumably using the CTE method that he claims to use on all shots.

Must not be too explicit in their explanations or Dr. Dave could have used them. :smile:

Here is a thought. If you are using the CTE "system", you are actually AIMING the CB at a specific point on the object ball, If you can AIM in this manner, why doesn't a user of the CTE "system" go ahead and train him/herself to play by feel?

 

[cookie man]

Because you don't always feel it.

Must not be too explicit in their explanations or Dr. Dave could have used them. :smile:

Here is a thought. If you are using the CTE "system", you are actually AIMING the CB at a specific point on the object ball, If you can AIM in this manner, why doesn't a user of the CTE "system" go ahead and train him/herself to play by feel?

 

[dr_dave]

Several people have done this in the past. I believe it is possible to find them using the search function. I would give you the links but I don't have to the time to search them out. I believe that the user SpiderWeb or something like that has done two videos, one which explains CTE and the other where he posts a fairly difficult drill that he scores particularly high on presumably using the CTE method that he claims to use on all shots.

I think Spidey Dave removed these videos from Youtube. If I remember right, the videos caused a huge debate about the "pivot" and how it changes from one shot to the next to make the "small adjustments." FYI, and animated image taken from one of the videos can be found here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/aiming.html#ninety​

Regards,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Dave:
... maybe it's a "framework for building and applying intuition."

Or a "bridge to your intuition" or an "intuition aid". All these phrases, including "placebo", say pretty much the same thing - some of us have been saying them for years.

I admire your patience, but I think asking system users for explanations is actually counterproductive - their defensiveness just adds heat where we need cool light. Not knowing how they do it seems to be a requirement of the systems (hence the placebo description).

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

I admire your patience, but I think asking system users for explanations is actually counterproductive - their defensiveness just adds heat where we need cool light. Not knowing how they do it seems to be a requirement of the systems (hence the placebo description).

PJ,

I wish you wouldn't do this. Being condescending and mocking like this makes them even more defensive (although, I know I've been guilty of this before also). I still have hope somebody out there can give a clear, complete, and understandable description and/or demonstration of the version of CTE that works for most shots (without unspoken "adjustments") as reported.

Regards,
Dave

 

[lfigueroa]

So what did it look like?

Well, first and foremost, it looked like Francisco kicking my ass

But in any case, I didn't see all the pivoting that CTE is is suppose to employ.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Here's the complete CTE story: it's not an aiming system; it's a confidence-building placebo. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for some people - placebos work for some people.

This is also why it can't be described by those who use it - they don't know it's a placebo. That's how placebos work.

pj
chgo

This is probably the bestest explanation of why some swear by it.

Meself, I just think that it gets people to focus, in a systematic way, on something they were not previously focusing on and/or being systematic about.

Lou Figueroa
or something
like that

 

[lfigueroa]

There is a list of impressive players who have visited Stan and implemented this placebo into their daily regime.

Names please.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Maybe that was my problem ... no head foil. I'll try that next time.

Dave

I've heard a slice of baloney inside your left shoe helps too

Lou Figueroa

 

[Scott Lee]

Lou...Stevie Moore would be on that list, and he doesn't play too bad! Landon Shuffett would be another strong proponent. He may be "just a kid", but he's a several time national champion, and has beaten many top pros, in competition.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Names please.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

you claim placebo effect..they are lying to themselves

I say it's perceptual differences.. they see the table differently than you do

they are NOT the same thing..

I think the whole point of a placebo and it's effectiveness is that people who are taking the placebo, don't know they are taking the placebo, so there's no "lying to themselves" about it. You think you're getting the real deal (but you're not) but dan't know it.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Roger Long]

Dr. Dave:

Thank you for pursuing this. CTE is not a "system" unless it can be arranged in a methodical and orderly way. But if it can be arranged in a methodical and orderly way, then there must be a way to describe it. Right now CTE appears to be nothing more than a useful technique for some practitioners, but so far it has held no value to me as an instructor because I cannot explain it to my students in a simple manner.

Roger

 

[8pack]

Dr. Dave:

Thank you for pursuing this. CTE is not a "system" unless it can be arranged in a methodical and orderly way. But if it can be arranged in a methodical and orderly way, then there must be a way to describe it. Right now CTE appears to be nothing more than a useful technique for some practitioners, but so far it has held no value to me as an instructor because I cannot explain it to my students in a simple manner.

Roger

Roger i think there is a correct way for cte.There are those that wont tell that know the right ajustsments to make it work and those that make it work and dont no why and dont know how to tell you.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I wish you wouldn't do this. Being condescending and mocking like this makes them even more defensive (although, I know I've been guilty of this before also). I still have hope somebody out there can give a clear, complete, and understandable description and/or demonstration of the version of CTE that works for most shots (without unspoken "adjustments") as reported.

Regards,
Dave

I wish you'd stop coddling the sensitive feelings of system users by continuing to ask for more detailed system instructions as if you really think some may exist. It's apparent to me that there is no information of that kind, and by pretending it might exist we only mislead uninformed readers. The information that other readers can use is our candid assessment of what we hear (and don't hear). That's what I give.

I don't think being candid mocks these systems or their users; I think their unwillingness to openly explore the systems is more detrimental to the systems' reputations. If they can't stand open discussion on an information-sharing forum, well, they have fingers and ears to put them in.

pj
chgo

 

[cookie man]

Well, first and foremost, it looked like Francisco kicking my ass

But in any case, I didn't see all the pivoting that CTE is is suppose to employ.

Lou Figueroa

Pivoting is overrated.

 

[Pushout]

PJ,

I wish you wouldn't do this. Being condescending and mocking like this makes them even more defensive (although, I know I've been guilty of this before also). I still have hope somebody out there can give a clear, complete, and understandable description and/or demonstration of the version of CTE that works for most shots (without unspoken "adjustments") as reported.

Regards,
Dave

How true, and my post about Pat stands. Hal told me that and I believe it. Dave, I think you are truly trying to find a way to explain this and I applaud you for it. But, doing so may make it to complicated for some people. I agree with the poster who said that it's got to do with how some individuals see the table/shot/cue ball, whatever.

 

[Scott Lee]

PJ...It is a well-known fact that you enjoy creating conflict here on the forums. It's also a well-known fact, that things like CTE and SAM (which is based on CTE), are quite difficult to describe in words, and/or diagrams, that will be understood by all...yet very easy to demonstrate in person. Some people who are exposed to these 'systems' like them, and adapt to them quickly. Others are confused, and don't like them at all. That's really all it boils down to. What I've said here is based on YEARS of posts on several different pool forums, and continued "prodding" by you, Dave, or anybody else, isn't going to change things.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I wish you'd stop coddling the sensitive feelings of system users by continuing to ask for more detailed system instructions as if you really think some may exist. It's apparent to me that there is no information of that kind, and by pretending it might exist we only mislead uninformed readers. The information that other readers can use is our candid assessment of what we hear (and don't hear). That's what I give.

I don't think being candid mocks these systems or their users; I think their unwillingness to openly explore the systems is more detrimental to the systems' reputations. If they can't stand open discussion on an information-sharing forum, well, they have fingers and ears to put them in.

pj
chgo

 

[cookie man]

I wish you'd stop coddling the sensitive feelings of system users by continuing to ask for more detailed system instructions as if you really think some may exist. It's apparent to me that there is no information of that kind, and by pretending it might exist we only mislead uninformed readers. The information that other readers can use is our candid assessment of what we hear (and don't hear). That's what I give.

I don't think being candid mocks these systems or their users; I think their unwillingness to openly explore the systems is more detrimental to the systems' reputations. If they can't stand open discussion on an information-sharing forum, well, they have fingers and ears to put them in.

pj
chgo

WOW, PJ is always right. Hasn't tried it, but he's right nonetheless.