International Cue Collectors Show

As long as the ICCS is a vehicle to elevate the status of Susan Mary Backman aka Martyne Gabriel aka Martyne Bachmen, and allow her to solicit more money for another unfinished book project, I will not attend.


I agree that Martyne's true identity is becoming clearer and clearer. A scam artist.

But she has not had that that much participation in the shows that I have been involved with. She only thinks she's important.

Again when I attend, I stay away form the bullshit and just enjoy the company and the cues. You will never witness as many fabulous cues in one spot. Don't let a couple of idiots ruin what is a great time.

JimmyK
 
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oh come on eric!
of course you don't give a hoot about seeing your own cues!
you DO like to look at cues owned by others! . . . and new cues!

yes, the organizers would much prefer that you keep your clothes on! :)
no interest io your personal poll!


LOL great post,
 
please dont think i'm stirring the pot here, i'm not. none of my posts have had that intention at all, i am very supportive of Mr. Stroud and his event. I hope everyone can go and have fun. Someday I might go, it sounds great!!


I was thinking about this last nite and today. I want to see people have fun, not tension-there are enough problems right now, why turn a fun event into anything but fun!!

Dealers advertize cues to sell, collectors dont as advertize as much but still do to sell cues they are tired of. But they both buy and sell and advertize just at different levels, right??. Same behaviour, different approach.


Some cue makers advertize and some dont. so they are a differrent breed. With a different agenda.




I will break this down a bit more:


there are 3 types of people here all with the same passion(all of which are kinda the same):


1. collectors(dont advertize unless they want to move a cue) but still buy and sell cues.

2. dealers(advertize all the time) and buy and sell cues, just more often.

3. people who just come to look(never advertize-yet) and might buy a cue now and sell later. They are new to the interest. But in time will become a dealer/collector/get out of the cue game for something different.

As Far as cue builders, some dont need to market themselfs as they have more orders than they can fill, and there are others who looking to establish a name. Same mind set just at a different level in the game, but their agendas are the same, with a few exceptions.


In summery everyone has the same interest for different reasons, but those different reasons in my opinion shouldnt cause a divide among anyone interested in big time cues, they should unite and enjoy the event for what it is and not worry about who's agenda is what? does it really matter?? the cues dont know what someones intentions are-except for my cues they know.....they are gonna get dirty and used.



this event should be about cues not peoples agendas, dont lose site of what brought us all together in the first place.



About me: It dosent matter, thats my whole point. I own some big cues and share them with who I want when I want(and that info about me is meaningless, useless and irrelevant) thats my point its about cues! not people who own them. its about cues not me or any other person. Unless there is something more to this than I know about, I wouldnt own a cue if created drama and stress-I'd pick a new interest.



have fun everyone,

eric
 
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I agree that Martyne's true identity is becoming clearer and clearer. A scam artist.

But she has not had that that much participation in the shows that I have been involved with. She only thinks she's important.

Again when I attend, I stay away form the bullshit and just enjoy the company and the cues. You will never witness as many fabulous cues in one spot. Don't let a couple of idiots ruin what is a great time.

JimmyK
jimmy, agree with your point in general, about just enjoying the show.
but it's not like you can turn a blind eye to the politics, and expect future progress.
also the show is the best time of the year, when a meeting could have some impact.
very much like the involvement of TAR with the interviews, and getting to see what's new, if not in attendance!
but . . . issues do have to be faced, to be ironed out! :thumbup2:
 
i know one fellow that is not going, even though he's attended all but one, of the seven previous shows!
jimbo feels the elections of the officers wasn't handled properly.
though he does think will prout is the man for the job of leader, which is the position he holds.
also objects to the inclusion, in the show, of martyne aka sue bachman.
he also felt that mark kulungian, should recieve an invitation.
i know if i were to go, one of the main reason would be to meet big bald jim in the flesh!
hopefully, thst can still happen next year, at the show in atlanta, or where ever . . .

I hung out with Jimbo in Vegas a few years back. He's a good guy. I know his net persona is a bit rough but he's a big teddy bear. You'll have a good time with him.
MULLY
 
Tap, tap, tap JimmyK. We're of like minds here! I'm not much interested in the politics. I will also say that I have not known Martyne in the way she is spoken of here. She has been honorable and helpful in my dealings with her.

Martin


 
Hey Azer's,
No where else in the world can you see all these beautiful cues in one place..
Thats what it is all about.. THE CUES....
Not the "Lable" some people are putting on the owners of these cues..
We are trying to show all the spectators how talented these cuemakers are and what a great obsession cues can be..
Why does this dumb topic keep coming up about Dealer/Collector..
Many dealers buy some of the greatest cues in the world. Does anyone think the cuemaker that made those cues doesn't want them displayed for the public to enjoy..
The ICCS puts on the greatest cue show on the planet because ANYONE who owns some of the greatest cues are welcome to share them with the public..

Please don't hold the entire ICCS show accountable for one persons actions, or another persons opinion of the show.
Alot of people traveling far, to help improve this industry we all love..
Best,
Ken Kerner
 
As long as the ICCS is a vehicle to elevate the status of Susan Mary Backman aka Martyne Gabriel aka Martyne Bachmen, and allow her to solicit more money for another unfinished book project, I will not attend.

I am with you Brad, if she is in attendance or represented in any way the entire event is soiled!!!!!!!!

Take care
 
Hey Azer's,
No where else in the world can you see all these beautiful cues in one place..
Thats what it is all about.. THE CUES....
Not the "Lable" some people are putting on the owners of these cues..
We are trying to show all the spectators how talented these cuemakers are and what a great obsession cues can be..
Why does this dumb topic keep coming up about Dealer/Collector..
Many dealers buy some of the greatest cues in the world. Does anyone think the cuemaker that made those cues doesn't want them displayed for the public to enjoy..
The ICCS puts on the greatest cue show on the planet because ANYONE who owns some of the greatest cues are welcome to share them with the public..

Please don't hold the entire ICCS show accountable for one persons actions, or another persons opinion of the show.
Alot of people traveling far, to help improve this industry we all love..
Best,
Ken Kerner

I couldn't care less if a dealer is displaying the cue or a collector. Thats silly politics that isn't important (imo).

You had a lot to say about the dealer aspect but you didn't mention anything about Martyne/Sue/whatever she's going by these days. What are your thoughts on her actions, and the willingness to allow her to be a part of this and take money from people for a product that she's yet to produce?
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Martyne's pool cue book.

Right after the Blue Book fiasco, she announced that she would be producing her own book on cues. Cue collectors would have to pay $5K to participate. I know a few people who put up money (I won't name names, as now they are embarrassed.)

The book was supposed to come out in November of 2005.

So far no book, and I don't know anyone who got their money back.

She finally promised them it would be at Valley Forge this year.

The book wasn't there, and she wasn't either.

I got the following letter in the Spring of 2005. I have X'd out the names of those who gave money. Earlier I said $5K because I know a couple of people who say they gave her that much. Another guy claims to have given her $20K. The guys I know are not happy.


"I am happy to announce that I have found a publisher
for my latest project, a new collectors cue book,
which will be produced as a full-color hard-cover
"coffee table" edition. I have negotiated a contract
with Schiffer, a publisher specializing in books on
collectibles.

Although this means both the printing costs
(approximately $80,000) and distribution to
booksellers is covered, it is still necessary for me
to raise funds for the production and promotion of the
book.

To date I have received commitments from a number of
collectors who are contributing amounts ranging from
$1500 to $20,000. These participants include XXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXX, XXXXXXXXXXXX, as
well as several newer collectors.

As you know, I photographed a number of the cues in
your collection, which I would love to include in this
book.

I look forward to learning if you would like to be
included in this project. It would be helpful to
verify the commitments of the funding participants in
the project so we can proceed within the next several
weeks. The projected release date for the book is
November 2005.

Following is a summary of the project for you.
Attached is the summary and agreement form, also more
budget info.

Please e-mail or call me with any questions.

Best regards,
Martyne S. Bachmen
Chalkers"



A private investigation started in 2005 over the Blue Book pictures. Martyne and Hugh were contracted and paid to take pictures for the Blue Book. All of their expenses were paid, and the owners of the cues thought they would be in the book. Instead, they kept the best pictures, and told the owners that they would have to pay money to get their cues included in the new book. But, by contract, those pics belonged to Blue Book.

Martyne and Hugh were traced to their real addresses and their real names.

Martyne Bachmen, real name: Sue Backman (she changed the spelling of her last name.)

Hugh Tiernan, real name: Peter Hangarter (If you don't believe me, just Google their real names.)

At the time, they were operating from a private Post Box. They were doing business as "Wingate Ltd." which officially didn't exist.

When they felt the heat, they relocated to New Mexico. Now they list their address as a Post Box at a U.P.S. store. On paper, they were "judgement proof", meaning no assets could be traced to them. Blue Book gave up on trying to recover damages, and the amount wasn't enough to attract Prosecutors.



Blue Book gave up on the civil suit because there were no assets to pin a judgement to. All they had in the end was an alias and a private post box (which is all you have with the Chalkers web-site to this day.) Just Google their current address, it is a U.P.S. Store.

Federal Prosecutors want to see an amount worth making a Federal Case. This was more about photography that was hard to prove the ownership of than it was about money.

Sue/Martyne/Peter/Hugh knew that by relocating to a new state, and staying under the radar, the whole thing would die down.

All anybody really has for them is a phone number, an e-mail address, and a private post box (not the same legally as a Post Office Box.) The names aren't real, and they can answer letters/calls as it suits them.

But people still send them money & cues.



I understand that she is speaking four times at the event and will probably ask for more money for her "book". Bill Stroud should be smart enough to see the true person and distance himself from her as soon as possible.

I certainly will never deal with Chalkers or anyone associated with her.

I am glad to hear that Tony got his cue returned and I am sure if he didn't make this public and without AZ's support she would still have the cue.

I find the fact that three people (that I've seen) that are involved with the ICCS are all that have spoken up about this. Where is the sense of decency and standing up for yourself and what you believe in? I can't believe that the people that are remaining silent about this actually think its ok. Are they afraid of not being in the good graces of the powers that be?

Its like a movie about high school girls. The popular girls are mean & shallow but because they're popular, others want to be in their group. You see girls with a sense of decency wanting to be a part of the group so badly that they are willing to go against their better judgement and fight with their inner selves to do mean things to other people. Is that what this is? People so desperately want to be accepted by the popular people that condone and enable this woman that they're willing to turn the other cheek? If I'm wrong, please correct me. At this point in time thats the only logical explanation that my mind can come up with. If I'm missing information, please advise.
 
My Advice.....

I find the fact that three people (that I've seen) that are involved with the ICCS are all that have spoken up about this. Where is the sense of decency and standing up for yourself and what you believe in? I can't believe that the people that are remaining silent about this actually think its ok. Are they afraid of not being in the good graces of the powers that be?

Sue/Martyne has stated to investors for the last four years that the book is "almost done", and that she just "needs more money."

She said the same thing to Blue Book Publications about the Blue Book project. When they finally called her bluff and demanded to see her progress, there was nothing but a few leftover pictures and a box full of unopened material that cuemakers had sent. She strung them along because they were paying her fees & expenses, and she was riding on their reputation.

I suspect that this book is no different. How could it be "almost done" for four years?

The investors need to get an unbiased person from the publishing world to see the project. If it is "almost done" there should be pictures, text, graphics, layout, captions, a Table of Contents, an Index, cover design, numbered pages, jacket design, etc.

She likes to show off all of her nice pictures, but that is just a component of a finished book. We all know she has nice pictures anyway, Blue Book paid her fees & expenses for the ones she started this project with.

If it is going to debut at the show, she would have advance sample copies by now.

If she refuses to let a knowledgeable person look at her progress on the project, then we all know what the answer is on its real status. If anybody gives her more money, they should see a shrink.
 
I couldn't care less if a dealer is displaying the cue or a collector. Thats silly politics that isn't important (imo).

You had a lot to say about the dealer aspect but you didn't mention anything about Martyne/Sue/whatever she's going by these days. What are your thoughts on her actions, and the willingness to allow her to be a part of this and take money from people for a product that she's yet to produce?

I agree silly politics aren't important..... Very tired of that silly arguement..

OK, I've been asked to address these issues...

First I think some fact checking should have been made before this was brought on to a public forum..
Martyne is NOT signed up for any participation at the ICCS show, Not as a speaker or an exibitor. If anyone is using this as a reason not to come, that is not the case..

As for the the other actions of Martne I don't know the reasons for the long delay on the return of Tony's cue. I haven't heard any explainations and commenting on something I don't have the facts on would be inappropriate.
I had asked not to give the ICCS a Black Eye for actions of one person.
This is a great show with alot of people who really care about the direction of this great industry..

Best,
Ken Kerner
 
Good News

Martyne is NOT signed up for any participation at the ICCS show, Not as a speaker or an exibitor. If anyone is using this as a reason not to come, that is not the case..

Thank you for clearing this up. I was under the impression that she was a featured speaker again.
 
I agree silly politics aren't important..... Very tired of that silly arguement..

OK, I've been asked to address these issues...

First I think some fact checking should have been made before this was brought on to a public forum..
Martyne is NOT signed up for any participation at the ICCS show, Not as a speaker or an exibitor. If anyone is using this as a reason not to come, that is not the case..

As for the the other actions of Martne I don't know the reasons for the long delay on the return of Tony's cue. I haven't heard any explainations and commenting on something I don't have the facts on would be inappropriate.
I had asked not to give the ICCS a Black Eye for actions of one person.
This is a great show with alot of people who really care about the direction of this great industry..

Best,
Ken Kerner
in jim's defense (not that he needs any) he mentioned nothing about martyne attending, or speaking at this years show.
he did mention that her name was connected to the iccs, and that she was a "member".
also that "Bill (stroud) indicated at last years meeting that he wanted our new cue museum to be located close to Martyne so she can work there"

the dealer / collector issue doesn't really bother me . . .
but there is an inherent conflict of interest, in both dealing and collecting cues.
in defending the inclusion of dealers, you mention nothing about mk!?

did you have a vote in the new leadership of the iccs?

i'm not trying to cause problems, but i thought he brought up some good points.
personally think jim is only looking for progress! :thumbup2:
 
I had asked not to give the ICCS a Black Eye for actions of one person.

Thank you for your response. I guess the point that I'm trying to make with the issue involving Martyne is that the ICCS seems to be giving itself the black eye by continuing to associate with her. She might be one person but she has negatively affected many, many people so this isn't really about one person.

What I've been able to gather so far is that there were a lot of concerns about her and her actions dating back to at least 2005. During last yrs show, 3 yrs later, Mr. Stroud not only wants the ICCS to continue dealing with her but wants to put the museum in a place close enough for her to be able to work there. Given her history up to that point, I find it quite baffling as to why he would do such a thing. Fast forward to a yr later and we see that she hasn't changed her ways very much considering what Tony just went through with her.

Continuing what should have been a business relationship that has turned into a scamming scheme, just doesn't make any sense. There has to be a reason that this is continuing. I have my uneducated guesses that I'll keep to myself but suffice it to say that this leaves people wondering what is motivating certain people to ensure she is around.

in jim's defense (not that he needs any) he mentioned nothing about martyne attending, or speaking at this years show.
he did mention that her name was connected to the iccs, and that she was a "member".
also that "Bill (stroud) indicated at last years meeting that he wanted our new cue museum to be located close to Martyne so she can work there"

the dealer / collector issue doesn't really bother me . . .
but there is an inherent conflict of interest, in both dealing and collecting cues.
in defending the inclusion of dealers, you mention nothing about mk!?

did you have a vote in the new leadership of the iccs?

i'm not trying to cause problems, but i thought he brought up some good points.
personally think jim is only looking for progress! :thumbup2:

The response that Icon has posted is pretty much exactly what was going through my mind as I was reading Ken's post.
 
What you have reported about Martyne is indeed sad and disturbing news if true. I have to say that at no time do I recall Bill Stroud mentioning specifically that he tabbed Martyne to work at the proposed cue musem at last years ICCS. The "cue museum" was a concept with much controversy and little agreement about what its purpose was, what it would display/ sell, and how it would survive.

Martin


Thank you for your response. I guess the point that I'm trying to make with the issue involving Martyne is that the ICCS seems to be giving itself the black eye by continuing to associate with her. She might be one person but she has negatively affected many, many people so this isn't really about one person.

What I've been able to gather so far is that there were a lot of concerns about her and her actions dating back to at least 2005. During last yrs show, 3 yrs later, Mr. Stroud not only wants the ICCS to continue dealing with her but wants to put the museum in a place close enough for her to be able to work there. Given her history up to that point, I find it quite baffling as to why he would do such a thing. Fast forward to a yr later and we see that she hasn't changed her ways very much considering what Tony just went through with her.

Continuing what should have been a business relationship that has turned into a scamming scheme, just doesn't make any sense. There has to be a reason that this is continuing. I have my uneducated guesses that I'll keep to myself but suffice it to say that this leaves people wondering what is motivating certain people to ensure she is around.



The response that Icon has posted is pretty much exactly what was going through my mind as I was reading Ken's post.
 
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in jim's defense (not that he needs any) he mentioned nothing about martyne attending, or speaking at this years show.
he did mention that her name was connected to the iccs, and that she was a "member".
also that "Bill (stroud) indicated at last years meeting that he wanted our new cue museum to be located close to Martyne so she can work there"

the dealer / collector issue doesn't really bother me . . .
but there is an inherent conflict of interest, in both dealing and collecting cues.
in defending the inclusion of dealers, you mention nothing about mk!?

did you have a vote in the new leadership of the iccs?

i'm not trying to cause problems, but i thought he brought up some good points.
personally think jim is only looking for progress! :thumbup2:

Hi Jeff,
People on this forum have been bringing up question's to me, since I'm a member of the ICCS also. I'm not commenting on anything concerning Jim's letter. Member's have been asking me to comment on questions they have.
So, I will try to answer their questions..

Bill Stroud discussed with me personally last year that he wanted the Museum close to himself and his wife Barbara. Since they will be in that area often in the future. Also, another member of the ICCS will be in that area in the future (NOT Martyne). I didn't know anything about her working there, either did Martin, we were both at the meeting..
You asked, I answered..

Next question..
MK attended the show last year.. Bill S. told me he had an open invitation before last year..

Next Question...
Did I have a vote in the new leadership?
No, but I think Will was a no brainer. Would I have liked imput on the other positions?..Maybe.. Am I upset about it? NOT at all..
Whats important it got done, and we can move forward..

It's a great show with super people and the best cues on the planet.
If you want to see some great cues this is the place.

Best,
Ken Kerner
 
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Did I have a vote in the new leadership?
No, but I think Will was a no brainer. Would I have liked input on the other positions?..Maybe.. Am I upset about it? NOT at all..
Whats important it got done, and we can move forward.
ken, you ignorant slut!

he he! just trying to lighten things up a bit! :wink2:

well, any misperceptions should be easy enough to clear up.
hopefully, things will move forward!
 
Next question..
MK attended the show last year.. Bill S. told me he had an open invitation before last year..

To clear it up.. during the first show, Mark and Bill went back and forth and Mark was invited and couldn't make it.. he has been to the last two or three and he has always been invited. The whole paragraph I read about someone saying how he lobbied for him is horse manure..

JV
 
ken, you ignorant slut!

he he! just trying to lighten things up a bit! :wink2:

well, any misperceptions should be easy enough to clear up.
hopefully, things will move forward!

Hey Jeff,
Haven't been called that in a while..

Always a pleasure speaking with you..

Best,
Ken Kerner
 
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