CONT FROM OTHER THREAD:
There are a lot of edges to the OB...NOT 2. The moment your head moves...."NEW EDGE."
There's a definitive technique in determining the "outermost edge" --- but it's something I don't wanna get into.
As far as "crashing the vertical planes" goes.... there's a LOT to talk about here. Based on your response in the other thread.... this is a totally new concept to you. You do not have to always stroke down your cue line. Most of my shots, I do not.
This is something I discovered by accident--- when Hal told me to "just whack it and you'll see". I never did see until I looked beyond the apparent.... which is something many people choose not to do.
All I can say is I hope to God someday Hal gets voted into the Hall of Fame for his knowledge. For me, he literally rewrote the book on pool. He lit up the dark side of the moon. His info is such that you can spend a few lifetimes playing pool.... and NEVER stumble upon this info.
Crashing vertical planes is a term I coined-- as the few I've spoken to couldn't describe it--- but that's exactly what it is. Your OB is a vertical plane and your CB is a vertical plane--- you replace the OB VP with the CB VP.
I hope this doesn't keep people up at night.
Anyways, I don't think you should sight through the center of the CB ever...but that's just me. I knew that before perfect aim.
Whenever I meet Gene in person, I'm going to show him that he stumbled on a CTE outer-edge limit. The only thing he does is feel the fraction (which he doesn't have to).
Your eyes aren't meant to sight straight down a line (many illusions). If you look across a line--- it's like focusing a camera....much easier to see
The "head shift" and the "pivot" seems to be the keys to making CTE work. It seems like it would be difficult to be consistent with these subtle but significant changes from one shot to the next without a tremendous amount of practice (and a good "feel" for and perception of the angle of the shot).
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you swooping the stroke, or are you moving the cue straight but with the cue at a slight sideways angle? Or do you mean something else entirely; in which case, please explain?
You don't sight through the center of the CB even for a perfectly straight-in shot? What about a perfect center-to-edge half-ball hit (exactly 30-degree cut angle) with no English? Also, when you sight, how are you aligning your head relative to the cue (dominant eye, vision center, nose)? I guess we need to know what you mean by "sight" before we know why you don't "sight" through the center of the CB for these shots.
I think most people have a "vision center" that allows them to perceive and sight down a straight line fairly well. Also, if you close one eye, it is fairly easy to sight along a straight line (as with aiming a gun).Your eyes aren't meant to sight straight down a line (many illusions). If you look across a line--- it's like focusing a camera....much easier to see
The "head shift" and the "pivot" seems to be the keys to making CTE work. It seems like it would be difficult to be consistent with these subtle but significant changes from one shot to the next without a tremendous amount of practice (and a good "feel" for and perception of the angle of the shot).
It's not difficult to be consistent with this changes-- and I'm not sure I'd call them subtle. Sure, it requires practice--- but infinitely less practice than shooting ghost ball. Angle of the shot never matters. Who knows what the true angle of any shot is? When I shoot, I could care less of the angle. If I stand behind the OB to look towards the pocket-- it's to make sure it's not blocked--- I'm not feeling the angle to make the ball. When I shoot a break shot in 14.1, I only look at the CB's angle into the rack.... so I know how to "not stick" and escape. I could care less what the angle to the pocket is.... it's insignificant. I think that's why some people struggle their entire lives making balls. They're trying to feel an imaginary angle. Some people can train their minds to perceive angles and for others--- it's like dribbling a basketball with their opposite hand--- they'll never do it.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you swooping the stroke, or are you moving the cue straight but with the cue at a slight sideways angle? Or do you mean something else entirely; in which case, please explain?
Not a swoop (although I like to swoop as well in certain circumstances). I would really prefer to demo this at a table. You shoot straight with a turned cue, from an anchor point that is not on the reference line. You stroke perpendicular to the OB/CB vertical planes. Let's not spend too much time on this--- only because there might be 20 guys out of 20,000 on azb that know what I'm talking about.
You don't sight through the center of the CB even for a perfectly straight-in shot? What about a perfect center-to-edge half-ball hit (exactly 30-degree cut angle) with no English? Also, when you sight, how are you aligning your head relative to the cue (dominant eye, vision center, nose)? I guess we need to know what you mean by "sight" before we know why you don't "sight" through the center of the CB for these shots.
No. I'm always to a side on every single shot in pool. My center of vision is never through the center of the CB. When you say perfectly straight-in, how do you know there isn't a 3 degree angle? Never assume anything when it comes to shots/angles because angles are invisible and you can't see them. Let's talk about half ball hits. You refer to these like "Oh my God--- why wouldn't you just shoot a half-ball hit?" I'd bet you dinner at Mortons I could setup 9 almost half-ball hits and 1 half ball hit and you couldn't pick out the half ball hit. The half-ball "sight" is a reference line. Your final aim post-pivot is unknown until you get there. Never assume it's a half-ball hit because you think it looks like one... it might be a half-ball-hit-into-the-titty for all you know
Forget dominant eye stuff--- especially your "NOSE" (whoever worries about their nose while pocketing will never be anybody in this game, unless they got lucky). The eye I use "most" depends on the direction of the cut. I position my body based on my reference line and outermost edge--- not an aim line-- who knows what that is until the very end. I mentioned earlier I'm not gonna get into outermost edges, body position to the CTEL vertical plane and stuff like that. My "sight" has everything to do with my reference line and outermost edge---nothing to do with the center of the CB to a "contact point." I suppose some people might sight center-to-edge, but edge-to-center is a much, much much better visual reference (in my very humble opinion).
I think most people have a "vision center" that allows them to perceive and sight down a straight line fairly well. Also, if you close one eye, it is fairly easy to sight along a straight line (as with aiming a gun).
True--- but since no one shoots with an eye closed, it doesn't apply. The input from the other eye will always create some type of visual illusion. Some more than others--- depends entirely on the person. That's why nearly everyone cuts in one direction better than the other. I'm not here to preach to anyone and tell anyone what they do is wrong.... I'm only telling you what I do--- I see lines accurately by looking across them slightly.... it defeats the illusion. My vision center is never center of the CB ever. It wasn't until I broke away from that legacy technique that I started to pocket balls decently. I setup off center and slightly "out-of-comfort" and pivot into comfort.
Thank you for your comments. I look forward to more healthy discussion on these topics.
Regards,
Dave
I have heard this a lot from the "Houlians" over the years, and we have heard numerous stories of people placing a sheet over the table (to where you can't see where the pocket is, but the balls can still move), and the balls still go in the hole. However, whether you care about (or can see) where the pocket is or not (or what the angle is), something in your aiming procedure must, at some point, take into account where the pocket is relative to the OB (i.e., the "angle of the shot"). That's the part that is still unclear to me. Maybe this just happens intuitively for you and others that have success with CTE (i.e., you don't have to "think about it" or "try to visualize it" ... you just "see it").
Actually, I prefer using the "quote" feature of the forum (e.g., see above). When you respond in the body of my original message with color, it makes it very difficult to quote and reply to your questions. Also, when people quote your message, it might not be clear what you wrote and what I wrote, if they don't include an explanation of the colors being used.
I'm not a big fan of Morton's, but I might be willing to take you up on this bet. I have ways to calibrate my 30-degree-rule peace-sign fairly accurately (e.g., see NV B.44 - Dr. Dave 30-degree-rule peace-sign hand calibration). The peace sign is designed to be used with the 30-degree rule, but it can also be used to check if a shot is a 30-degree cut angle or not (i.e., if it should be a center-to-edge or edge-to-center half-ball hit). When my hand is well-calibrated and I am careful, I think I can win that bet.
This is an interesting concept, and I look forward to spending some time trying this out with different types of shots.
Good post ... well-stated. However, I think everybody always has room for improvement (except maybe Efren :wink
; and with practice, we can all get better. I don't think anybody should "learn to accept" that they can't be great.
I din't say "exactly," but I think "within human judgment of a half-ball hit" is possible (in other words, I think a well-calibrated peace-sign should be able to tell you if a true center-to-edge half-ball-hit will send the OB into a pocket or not).
Good point. I do plan to try this out with a box-opening mind later today. I think I know what "look across the line slightly" means; but if you or others think it needs more description, I'm all ears.
Interesting points, but I think the cue and cue ball are definitely "visually relevant" during the final "set" position (where you are checking your tip contact point and the line of the cue to your target), right? And don't you think the cue and cue ball are visible in your peripheral vision as you drop down into your stance and establish your alignment?
You don't look at the tip position on the cue ball at any point (e.g., to make sure it is center-ball if you want no English)?
If you follow your normal preshot routine, but your head is slightly to the left or right of where it normally is (during the whole pre-shot routine and the stroke), do you think you would still pocket balls as well? If not, maybe your head position is important (whether you think about it or not). I'm just asking you and other where your eyes are relative to the cue or line of aim (whether you are aware of this or not) and whether or not you change this (whether you are aware of this or not) for different types of shots (e.g., thin cuts vs. spot-aim shots vs. typical cuts).
