Dumping money matches !

jay helfert said:
Everybody who has been involved in the pool scene for more than a minute knows that "business" can happen in a money match. All this thread does is remind us of that fact. I don't know what other purpose it serves.

I've done a lot of side betting on matches (for quite a bit more than I will bet online) and staked numerous players. What you learn over the years is to pick your spots and pick your players carefully. It's like anything else in life. "Let the buyer beware." How many rich and famous people lost millions investing with Bernie Madoff and Allen Stanford? They got dumped too, BIG TIME!

Years ago I was buying into some real estate limited partnerships. Shares were 10K each. I bought into several deals and they went okay. Usually the properties got sold within two years and we would make 40-50% return on our money. On one deal, after it was over the general partner was very slow to pay the limited partners. He kept asking everyone to reinvest our money with him. I didn't have a good feeling about this guy and called his office and asked to get my money (three months after the sale closed). He kept stalling me.

I finally went to his office and waited to see him for two hours. He finally opened the door to tell his secretary something and I walked right in. I sat down at his desk and told him I was there to get my money (over 14K). He told me not to worry, it was coming. I told him I was going to sit right there until I got it - TODAY! We had a slightly heated exchange where I told him in no uncertain terms that I was not interested in reinvesting with him. I made it very clear I was tired of waiting for my money and I wanted it today, and I wasn't leaving until I got it.

Guess what - I GOT PAID! Later on I heard many of the partners got stiffed and just took a tax write-off. They were a lot wealthier than me. I didn't need the write-off. I needed the cash. My point being is that there are all kinds of "dump artists" and some of them wear suits and don't play pool.
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I pray even a fraction of this type of knowledge is in your next book, Mister Helfert! We all wait with bated breath. The study of human moves :smile:
 
jay helfert said:
Everybody who has been involved in the pool scene for more than a minute knows that "business" can happen in a money match. All this thread does is remind us of that fact. I don't know what other purpose it serves.

I've done a lot of side betting on matches (for quite a bit more than I will bet online) and staked numerous players. What you learn over the years is to pick your spots and your players carefully. It's like anything else in life. "Let the buyer beware." How many rich and famous people lost millions investing with Bernie Madoff and Allen Stanford? They got dumped too, BIG TIME!

Years ago I was buying into some real estate limited partnerships. Shares were 10K each. I bought into several deals and they went okay. Usually the properties got sold within two years and we would make 40-50% return on our money. On one deal, after it was over the general partner was very slow to pay the limited partners. He kept asking everyone to reinvest our money with him. I didn't have a good feeling about this guy and called his office and asked to get my money (three months after the sale closed). He kept stalling me.

I finally went to his office and waited to see him for two hours. He finally opened the door to tell his secretary something and I walked right in. I sat down at his desk and told him I was there to get my money (over 14K). He told me not to worry, it was coming. I told him I was going to sit right there until I got it - TODAY! We had a slightly heated exchange where I told him in no uncertain terms that I was not interested in reinvesting with him. I made it very clear I was tired of waiting for my money and I wanted it today, and I wasn't leaving until I got it.

Guess what - I GOT PAID! Later on I heard many of the partners got stiffed and just took a tax write-off. They were a lot wealthier than me. I didn't need the write-off. I needed the cash. My point being is that there are all kinds of "dump artists" and some of them wear suits and don't play pool.
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nice post Jay and Agreed !
 
Dump artists should have this tattooed on their forearm if they get caught....

Humpty-Dumpty.jpg


Big tournaments usually bring out the best and Galveston has been no exception. I know of quite a few that are completely on the square 100% of the time and know of quite a few that one can never be certain about betting on. So far, I haven't liked over half of the action matches that have been played..... Pretty freaking sick!!! The pool world would be much better off if 5 or 6 players in particular were barred from pool for how they do business!
 
The Saw said:
Dump artists should have this tattooed on their forearm if they get caught....

Big tournaments usually bring out the best and Galveston has been no exception. I know of quite a few that are completely on the square 100% of the time and know of quite a few that one can never be certain about betting on. So far, I haven't liked over half of the action matches that have been played..... Pretty freaking sick!!! The pool world would be much better off if 5 or 6 players in particular were barred from pool for how they do business!
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Well, if you know quite a few that are completely on the square 100% of the time and know quite a few that one can never be certain about; then you really shouldn't be surprised that you have not liked over half of the action. Just statistics.
 
JDB said:
Well, if you know quite a few that are completely on the square 100% of the time and know quite a few that one can never be certain about; then you really shouldn't be surprised that you have not liked over half of the action. Just statistics.
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There are quite a few that I really don't know enough about to give an opinion of though.... The good is certainly the majority though, a few bad apples is what it amounts to.
 
houmatroy said:
I just got off the phone with a friend that was there with this particular match that alot of people were suspicious of after..and he told me the fix was deffinately in from the get go with everybody involved..He said he actually watched the winning player chop money with the losing player after the match was over...A saver ? yea right...if they playing on somebody elses money there shouldn't be no kind of saver..it's gambling...i can see if it was tournement..that's completely different...Being someone that use to be considered a stakehorse..this kind of news really gets under my skin...It's one of the reason i got out of it...now there's only a very few i will bet money on..If what was presented to me is true...I loss the little respect i had left for them plus the others that were involved.
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Please read one of my quotes in my signature. Dumping is wrong... but it will always happen in this business. Do you want some type of award for exposing it on AZ? Come on Troy, you should no better.
 
houmatroy said:
I'm trying to get a big money match put together right now with Gary & Jessie on a barbox...U know why those two...cuz I know the game will be legit and the better player that day will get the money no matter which 1 wins..
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Last I heard, you weren't trying very hard. But of course, this could be a rumor or speculation...??
 
1on1pooltournys said:
Please read one of my quotes in my signature. Dumping is wrong... but it will always happen in this business. Do you want some type of award for exposing it on AZ? Come on Troy, you should no better.
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i dont want chit..but i will call a spade all day long & i don't care who i piss off !!!
 
1on1pooltournys said:
Last I heard, you weren't trying very hard. But of course, this could be a rumor or speculation...??
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Well ..since i'm friends with Gary and have talked to jessie about timing.i guess you would be out the loop..i've talked to people about streaming the event..plus talked to room owners that can provide service with internet connection that wil surfice..the match will take place sometime in the near future..thx for your concern..Troy
 
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this is one of the main reasons why pool will never make it as a mainstream sport. big-time sponsors want nothing to do with this kind of crap!
 
derekdisco said:
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Who won between Tony and Billy the other night?
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Billy won. Tony is a broke dog in Galveston. I could elaborate how I know this, but I ain't. :grin-square:

I truly hope industry members who provide financial means to others are aware of the caliber of people they support. People can talk about pool players all they want, but they should really be looking at those behind the scenes and who THEY work with. :wink:
 
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There is a reason why some players do not, will not, and never will enjoy dancing like monkeys for the Internet.

I'm not sure what direction this thread is going in, but there was no dump between Billy Incardona and Tony Chohan. And I, for one, want to make that clear.

You want to know how I know? Because I know Billy Incardona, and anybody who knows him -- I mean REALLY knows him -- would never, ever insinuate or hint at the thought of him dumping.

That said, carry on and have some more forum fun.
 
houmatroy said:
there was only 1 big money match that had alot of controversy from alot of different angles...i'd rather talk about why it's bad for pool then get into a pissing contest with anybody....like i said before i use to put alot of money in the gambling schene but this kind of thing has kept my wallet more tightly closed for sure..I'm trying to get a big money match put together right now with Gary & Jessie on a barbox...U know why those two...cuz I know the game will be legit and the better player that day will get the money no matter which 1 wins..
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The guy that talked to you about the dumping may be correct. But..... there is always the possiblity that the guy who won was merely paying off a debt of borrowed money to the loser.....as hustlers are famous for borrowing money.....Maybe this was a guy who liked to pay his debts quickly.....Ain't that a possibility?

And....Since the loser was not up to par or not playing at his speed it would look like a dump had taken place.... and here was evidence.....the chop-up of the cash.....When in reality the guy was just paying a debt from a loan.:eek:



Situations often get confusing!:cool:....Especially if someone else (possibly the guy who was telling you the story) had money on the line.
 
HUSTLIN$$ said:
why mention it then.
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I mention it, HUSTLIN$$, to counteract any insinuations, innuendoes, or hints about the action game between Billy Incardona and Tony Chohan.

Does this help clarify the intention of my post? I hope so.
 
Well said Justin!

JCIN said:
Off the top of my head:

The winning player owed the loser money. Happens all the time.

The winning player was giving the losing player a walking stick.

My opinion on this type of situation is if there is enough evidence to talk about it in public then whoever is putting it out there ought to name names and tell the whole story.

The problem is it always....and I mean damn near always goes back to "I heard from someone who saw something"

There is one way to know if a match was dumped and that is if you are in on it or someone who was flat out tells you. Other than that it is just an opinion. I am well aware of what sometimes happens and I am also aware that way too many people are ready to jump and say "Dump" without being willing to commit all the way and name names.

You said it was a member here who was involved. So now everyone is going to questioning every gambler/member who is down in Galveston. Just say the name and let whoever it is defend themselves. This type of thing does no good for anyone. If you are not going to tell the community who to look out for what is the point?
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JAM said:
I mention it, HUSTLIN$$, to counteract any insinuations, innuendoes, or hints about the action game between Billy Incardona and Tony Chohan.

Does this help clarify the intention of my post? I hope so.
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why not leave the part out where you say you could elaborate on how you know this but you aint. nobody asked you how you know it. this kinda like when people say they know something but cant say anything about it or so and so told me not to tell. its usually a way for people to draw attention to themselves and want people to believe they know a lot or are in some kind of loop. i used to watch billy play in chicago and always respected his game. to answer your question yes it clarifys the intention of your post.
 
HUSTLIN$$ said:
why not leave the part out where you say you could elaborate on how you know this but you aint. nobody asked you how you know it. this kinda like when people say they know something but cant say anything about it or so and so told me not to tell. its usually a way for people to draw attention to themselves and want people to believe they know a lot or are in some kind of loop. i used to watch billy play in chicago and always respected his game. to answer your question yes it clarifys the intention of your post.
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Gee, you choose my post to question on this thread, when there are pictures being posted, innuendoes being made, and insinuations about a dump? WOW!

I realize nobody asked me how I knew it. You are right. Nobody told me not to say anything. I just don't like seeing Billy Incardona and/or Tony Chohan's name being thrown around in a dumping thread, as if they dumped. Okay?

Also, I have spoken to Tony several times while he's been in Galveston. I know he is on the shortskies because he told me so. The rest of the conversation, though, I will not elaborate on. However, when somebody asks to borrow money, it's a good sign that they're broke.
 
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