Galveston One Pocket Payout

I've got to agree with Roy here. I don't understand taking shots at a first attempt to bring a great event to pool. Is it because TAR wasn't picked to stream?

LOL...am in the twilight zone here?

These guys promise $50,000 and deliver $9,000 and people are turning it into sour grapes from me because we didnt get to go work 14 hours a day for free?

To answer your question: No my take on this event is not because TAR was not asked to stream the event. It is because I am capable of doing math.
 
If I hated it then why am I here?

I just expect events to pay what they say they will. When everyone who asks any questions is shouted down and told "At least they are doing something" it pisses me off. I am all for doing something in fact I try and do it myself. But I am also for doing what you say.

From $50,000 to $9,000 for the Team 8 Ball? Come on man.

It is a fun event. The people running and reffing the event have done a superb job with what they had to work with. When I came down here it was to see some friends, watch the best in the world play and shoot some pictures and video for the new Team CSI. Just because I can do some math does not make me the bad guy here.

Here is the final 10 Ball payout:

3934290809_86f95d7c99_o.jpg


Total prize fund $67,000

75 entries x $600 = $45,000

$67,000 - $45,000 = $22,000 added.

First place advertised: $50,000

First place paid: $25,000

A $22,000 added event is awesome. It is respectable. It is also far from what was promised and promoted.

Here is the Pro 8 Ball final payout:

3934375253_5d22c2519f_o.jpg


Total payout: $42,000

91 x $300 each = $27,300

Total added = $14,700

First place advertised: $25,000

First place paid: $15,000

I could go on but I have other things to do. These are all decent added money events in a very nice venue on great equipment. But if you can look me in the eye and tell me this is what was advertised then I think you should stay away from bridge salesmen.

I am thinking of doing a $100,000 first place event. I don't have the money but I guess it doesn't really matter because hey....at least I would be doing something.


Thanks for listing the payouts.

I haven't seen the payouts yet, only heard that they spread it down after votes instead of just paying 1st what they guaranteed.

I never thought, or got the impression, that they also cut in the added money.

That's definitely not the way to do it. Not at all. But I still won't LOL about it, though.
 
TAR has done a wonderful thing for all pool fans in being the first (as far as I know) in bringing some great pool to the internet, for our viewing pleasure. Now that there are more people joining the effort there seems to be some friction going on between some, JMO.

Concerning the Galveston tournament, I think these guys made an honest effort to have a world class event and have succeeded. But I definitely agree that the purse cuts have been their MAJOR problem. You can't have a world class event without world class players and who knows how much damage this cutting does in the players opinions.

I suspect though, considering there aren't that many great paydays in pool, the player's will be willing to consider that this is a first effort by some guys trying to build a successful major tournament. I hope so.
 
Different take...

I have a little different take on this than do all of you Efren worshippers. Reyes was very fortunate to have won the 1P event. He easily could have lost a couple of his matches; especially the match with Ike Runnels, who had Reyes down 2-0 with a routine 3 ball runout at hand. Efren is no longer the player that he was in the mid-90's.

I saw the player meeting taking place. I thought it was the final 12 guys. Oscar Dominguez told me that the promoter held the meeting and asked the guys if they wanted him to take money from first and spread it out to the remainder of the field, since it was so top heavy due to mediocre attendance. They all agreed, except Reyes. At that point I realized that Efren is a selfish pr*ck. From that moment on I was rooting for him to lose. When he did win, I was happy that he only won 15K.

I've often heard rumors that some of the Filipinos chop up their winnings anyway. I don't know if that's true. As far as chopping the final money, I know that this is a common practice in poker tournaments.

Good arguments can be made for whether or not the deal should have been offered at all. In my opinion, it was the smart thing to do, so as to insure that most of the players would return.

Taylor Road put up hundreds of thousands for the venue, personnel, equipment, and prize money. They've said that if the event is successful next year that they intend to put on several events each year around the country.

There's only one other American event that offers this many players anywhere close to this much money: the DCC. From what I've seen, I believe that Taylor Road is the real McCoy. In my view the positives completely outweigh any negatives on this event.

Doc
 
I'm going to have to defend the Taylor Road group here. I didn't see anywhere where they guaranteed ANY added money, only first place. According to my numbers, they have added over $50,000 ($54,200 to be exact) in the three men's pro divisions. That would go increase to well over $60,000 if you include the women pros and another $15,000+ in the amateur divisions. All told there is around $80,000+ being added to all the divisions and I'm probably very low on that number. If they had in fact paid the guaranteed first places and not added any money, the prize money for second place on down would have been squat!

So let's just say for the sake of argument they have added $80,000 to all divisions (again that's a very conservative number). Along with the additional expenses of ballroom rental fees, pool tables, bleachers, personnel, advertising, etc. etc., they are out of pocket an easy 250K to 300K. There is no way they will recoup more than a fraction of these expenses. This event, attractive as it looks, will result in a LARGE net loss to the Taylor Road guys.

I'm going to cut these guys some serious slack here. They are trying to create another major pool event in this country at a time when we most need one (or two or three). After the U.S. Open and DCC what have we got left? Turning Stone is probably the next biggest pro event with an 8K prize to the winner. Pro pool is in dire straights in America with rooms closing right and left, sponsors fast deserting and only a few regional tours to sustain the players.

Look around and tell me who is ADDING $80,000 to any pool events in the United States. Barry Behrman added a little over 70K to the U.S. Open last year and that's tops over here. I started out very leery of this event with the big first place guarantees. It was just such a different approach to producing a pro tournament. After attending for the first five days and seeing what the Taylor group had created and how they were dealing with the prize money and the smaller than expected fields, I am now solidly in their corner. I wish them luck in the future. This first event will be a massive learning experience for them. And an expensive one at that.

It may well be the only Galveston World Classic we will ever see. That remains to be seen. I now feel confident that if they can somehow do a second one, it will be much bigger and better attended than this one was. Maybe by the third or fourth year, they can actually turn a profit. These guys showed me a lot more heart than Trudough ever did. Their heart is in the right place, trying to create a worthwhile pool event with some real money getting paid out.

I can't remember the last time I saw a One Pocket field so strong that paid 15K to the winner. If they do it again next year, I'm coming for the entire event.
 
TAR has done a wonderful thing for all pool fans in being the first (as far as I know) in bringing some great pool to the internet, for our viewing pleasure. Now that there are more people joining the effort there seems to be some friction going on between some, JMO.

Concerning the Galveston tournament, I think these guys made an honest effort to have a world class event and have succeeded. But I definitely agree that the purse cuts have been their MAJOR problem. You can't have a world class event without world class players and who knows how much damage this cutting does in the players opinions.

I suspect though, considering there aren't that many great paydays in pool, the player's will be willing to consider that this is a first effort by some guys trying to build a successful major tournament. I hope so.

The only friction on my end is truth in advertising. If someone can make the players money I am all for it. If they can do the same as TAR only better then we will either have to step up or go away. Nothing wrong with competition as long as it is honest competition.

TAR is not the first to do live streaming pool. BCN and Accu-Stats did it for years before we came along.
 
Doc, I heard it was a group of players that initiated the request. I think you're being a little harsh on Efren. While his shot making has declined, he still controls whitey better than anyone, imo. While it's no longer the case that he is dominant, he is still the favorite in any one pocket match, again imo. I definitely agree Efren got a couple of rolls and some of his matches could have gone the other way.

But as far as changing first place money, Efren, or anyone else for that matter has a right to complain if this money was guaranteed. Selfish pr*ck? Doc, next thing you know you'll be reciting Marx, "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his need." :wink:
 
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The only friction on my end is truth in advertising. If someone can make the players money I am all for it. If they can do the same as TAR only better then we will either have to step up or go away. Nothing wrong with competition as long as it is honest competition.

TAR is not the first to do live streaming pool. BCN and Accu-Stats did it for years before we came along.

But TAR was the first to give us major money matches LIVE! Maybe the coolest thing yet for hard core pool fans. Brilliantly conceived and well executed by Justin and Chad! And in so doing you have spawned a whole new genre in the pool industry. You won't do it so I'll give you a pat on the back!

Just when I was getting totally bored with pool on TV, you guys came along and got me off my ass and back into the booth. I have always loved working for Pat Fleming, who is the greatest IMO. And doing tournament matches live to huge audiences in Asia and Europe has been very cool too. But being able to work free form on TAR with nothing to hold us back was the triple nuts. Thanks buddy!
 
I'm going to have to defend the Taylor Road group here. I didn't see anywhere where they guaranteed ANY added money, only first place. According to my numbers, they have added over $50,000 ($54,200 to be exact) in the three men's pro divisions. That would go increase to well over $60,000 if you include the women pros and another $15,000+ in the amateur divisions. All told there is around $80,000+ being added to all the divisions and I'm probably very low on that number. If they had in fact paid the guaranteed first places and not added any money, the prize money for second place on down would have been squat!

So let's just say for the sake of argument they have added $80,000 to all divisions (again that's a very conservative number). Along with the additional expenses of ballroom rental fees, pool tables, bleachers, personnel, advertising, etc. etc., they are out of pocket an easy 250K to 300K. There is no way they will recoup more than a fraction of these expenses. This event, attractive as it looks, will result in a LARGE net loss to the Taylor Road guys.

I'm going to cut these guys some serious slack here. They are trying to create another major pool event in this country at a time when we most need one (or two or three). After the U.S. Open and DCC what have we got left? Turning Stone is probably the next biggest pro event with an 8K prize to the winner. Pro pool is in dire straights in America with rooms closing right and left, sponsors fast deserting and only a few regional tours to sustain the players.

Look around and tell me who is ADDING $80,000 to any pool events in the United States. Barry Behrman added a little over 70K to the U.S. Open last year and that's tops over here. I started out very leery of this event with the big first place guarantees. It was just such a different approach to producing a pro tournament. After attending for the first five days and seeing what the Taylor group had created and how they were dealing with the prize money and the smaller than expected fields, I am now solidly in their corner. I wish them luck in the future. This first event will be a massive learning experience for them. And an expensive one at that.

It may well be the only Galveston World Classic we will ever see. That remains to be seen. I now feel confident that if they can somehow do a second one, it will be much bigger and better attended than this one was. Maybe by the third or fourth year, they can actually turn a profit. These guys showed me a lot more heart than Trudough ever did. Their heart is in the right place, trying to create a worthwhile pool event with some real money getting paid out.

I can't remember the last time I saw a One Pocket field so strong that paid 15K to the winner. If they do it again next year, I'm coming for the entire event.

So as long as someone adds $80,000 they can advertise what ever they like and change it on site at the last minute and they get a pass ?

I guess I just expect too much.
 
So as long as someone adds $80,000 they can advertise what ever they like and change it on site at the last minute and they get a pass ?

I guess I just expect too much.

No good deed goes unpunished! :rolleyes:
 
I have done my best to stay out of this thread, but I just can't stand it any longer.

I hope the promoters of this event don't lose so much money that they just go away. I want them to try again, and do a better job. I would love to have a Derby City type event just a few hours down the road.

BUT!

Justin is right! Dropping the added money is wrong! Period!

The thing is that I called one of the promoters of this event several months ago to let them know that there was a thread on AZ that they really needed to look at. I urged them to read it and answer questions. Legitimate questions, that would make people feel much more comfortable with going to this event. I told them that the promise of big first place money had been done before, and it always back fired. There were never enough players to justify the huge promises and the promoters always backed out and paid less. I was told that the promised money would be paid no matter what. I was told that they expected to lose money on the first event. I urged them to escrow the money and tell everyone about it so the players would feel good about the event and would come to play.

Obviously some of those things didn't happen.

The fact is that several qualified people offered to help with this event, and they were turned away. All that is fine if the promoters do what they say, but here they didn't.

As I said, I would love for this event to happen again, but even better! I want Taylor Road Productions to be tremendously successful!

That is all I have to say, and this will be my last post about this subject.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
I dont see why people would consider Efren to be a "selfish pr$ck". As far as mathematical odds go Efren has to be considered a favorite against the whole field. The man is just confident in himself and betting on that. This is business, an opportunity to make profit off of your skills and your efforts. Why shouldnt Efren gamble that he is the one who is coming in first. This is not league night. Or a tea party. The man is coming all the way from the Phillipines to play. It comes out of his pocket. His presence adds to the tournament and the organizers should be so thankful that he is there. Like Allison Fisher and any other true Champion they do their best and they want the best. Win or Lose they put their every effort to dominate and its right that they should expect the best rewards.
Now the fact is Efren did win it. He comes away with less than what he expected before he bought his plane ticket.
As far as "Efren worshipers" goes I think that is a sham and poor sportsmanship. The man won against a tough field. He has time and time again proven his abilities and we respect it. Why shouldnt we be amazed at his feats. Its not worship its great joy he gives us in his remarkable skills. We dont forget he is a human being he just doesnt shoot like one.
Oh and as far as being "selfish". You might not know of the tips he gives to cab drivers and hotel maids and food servers. He is known to give hundreds to them. I have seen this many times. Have you?
 
I'm with you Doc, if Efren was the only one who wanted the 25k that is pretty selfish.



I have a little different take on this than do all of you Efren worshippers. Reyes was very fortunate to have won the 1P event. He easily could have lost a couple of his matches; especially the match with Ike Runnels, who had Reyes down 2-0 with a routine 3 ball runout at hand. Efren is no longer the player that he was in the mid-90's.

I saw the player meeting taking place. I thought it was the final 12 guys. Oscar Dominguez told me that the promoter held the meeting and asked the guys if they wanted him to take money from first and spread it out to the remainder of the field, since it was so top heavy due to mediocre attendance. They all agreed, except Reyes. At that point I realized that Efren is a selfish pr*ck. From that moment on I was rooting for him to lose. When he did win, I was happy that he only won 15K.

I've often heard rumors that some of the Filipinos chop up their winnings anyway. I don't know if that's true. As far as chopping the final money, I know that this is a common practice in poker tournaments.

Good arguments can be made for whether or not the deal should have been offered at all. In my opinion, it was the smart thing to do, so as to insure that most of the players would return.

Taylor Road put up hundreds of thousands for the venue, personnel, equipment, and prize money. They've said that if the event is successful next year that they intend to put on several events each year around the country.

There's only one other American event that offers this many players anywhere close to this much money: the DCC. From what I've seen, I believe that Taylor Road is the real McCoy. In my view the positives completely outweigh any negatives on this event.

Doc
 
Look at it properly...its just economics guys

Lets take a look at some of the theorms and principals of economics and related fields such as game theory.

Game theory is a branch of applied mathematics that studies strategic interactions between agents. In strategic games, agents choose strategies that will maximize their payoff, given the strategies the other agents choose. It provides a formal modeling approach to social situations in which decision makers interact with other agents.
Game theory generalizes maximization approaches developed to analyze markets


Via Robert Axelrod's classic book The Evolution of Cooperation, I had come upon the concept of the "non-zero-sum" game, a game in which there isn't necessarily one winner and one loser, but rather the possibility of two winners—or two losers, depending on whether the players successfully cooperate.
After reading Axelrod's book, I had gotten fascinated by the idea that relations among nations are growing more non-zero-sum.

For example: With nations getting more economically intertwined, their fortunes are more closely correlated, for better and for worse. So too with environmental problems like global warming and ozone depletion and exhaustion of the world's fisheries: Nations adversely affected by these problems will either cooperate to solve them and all win, or fail to solve them and all lose. And so on, in various policy areas—controlling the spread of nuclear and biological weapons, the spread of disease, etc.

Economic efficiency describes how well a system generates the maximum desired output a with a given set of inputs and available technology. Efficiency is improved if more output is generated without changing inputs, or in other words, the amount of "friction" or "waste" is reduced. Economists look for Pareto efficiency, which is reached when a change cannot make someone better off without making someone else worse off.
Economic efficiency is used to refer to a number of related concepts. A system can be called economically efficient if: No one can be made better off without making someone else worse off, more output cannot be obtained without increasing the amount of inputs, and production ensures the lowest possible per unit cost. These definitions of efficiency are not exactly equivalent. However, they are all encompassed by the idea that nothing more can be achieved given the resources available.


In the real world ensuring that nobody is disadvantaged by a change aimed at improving economic efficiency may require compensation of one or more parties. For instance, if a change in economic policy dictates that a legally protected monopoly ceases to exist and that market subsequently becomes competitive and more efficient, the monopolist will be made worse off. However, the loss to the monopolist will be more than offset by the gain in efficiency.
This means the monopolist can be compensated for its loss while still leaving an efficiency gain to be realized by others in the economy, and theoretically the monopolist could gain more by the distribution. Thus, the requirement of nobody being made worse off for a gain to others is met.

Multi-objective optimization (or programming) also known as multi-criteria or multi-attribute optimization, is the process of simultaneously optimizing two or more conflicting objectives subject to certain constraints.

Multiobjective optimization problems can be found in various fields: product and process design, finance, aircraft design, the oil and gas industry, automobile design, or wherever optimal decisions need to be taken in the presence of trade-offs between two or more conflicting objectives.

Maximizing profit and minimizing the cost of a product; maximizing performance and minimizing fuel consumption of a vehicle; and minimizing weight while maximizing the strength of a particular component are examples of multi-objective optimization problems.

If a multiobjective problem is well formed, there should not be a single solution that simultaneously minimizes each objective to its fullest. In each case we are looking for a solution for which each objective has been optimized to the extent that if we try to optimize it any further, then the other objective(s) will suffer as a result. Finding such a solution, and quantifying how much better this solution is compared to other such solutions (there will generally be many) is the goal when setting up and solving a multiobjective optimization problem.

Economic efficiency is used to refer to a number of related concepts. It is the using of resources in such a way as to maximize the production of goods and services.[1] A system can be called economically efficient if:

No one can be made better off without making someone else worse off.
More output cannot be obtained without increasing the amount of inputs.

Production proceeds at the lowest possible per-unit cost.
These definitions of efficiency are not equivalent, but they are all encompassed by the idea that nothing more can be achieved given the resources available.

An economic system is more efficient if it can provide more goods and services for society without using more resources. Market economies are generally believed to be more efficient than other known alternatives.[2] The first fundamental welfare theorem provides some basis for this belief, as it states that any perfectly competitive market equilibrium is efficient (but only if no market imperfections exist).


The brilliant John Nash has developed work on the role of money in society. In the context that people can be so controlled and motivated by money that they may not be able to reason rationally about it.

This is Effrens case tho it seemed rational for him to choose to keep the 25k dollar first place prize, it puts the other players (lets call it PE=Pool Economy) at a higher loss/disadvantage.

Now I’m sure we can all assume that the full fields did not occur in this tournament because of prior un-ethical pratices in the IPT and other such organizations. The P.E. was/is gun shy and rightfully so, and this trickled all the way down to spectators, vendors etc.(of which are part of the PE)

If we had went with Effrens decision to keep the bulk of the money for 1st place, we cast aside the needs of the rest of the PE. So who cares right? WRONG! By the more efficient distribution of money thorought the PE, everyone gets a more FAIR share. Which makes players happy, as we all know this is not a cheap walk in the park. Hotels cost, food, travel, entries. So without this distribution the ones who didn’t get first are at a much greater disadvantage, with better distribution everyones risk values go down. Thus producing a more efficient system.

With a more efficient system, people feel more fairly treated so they will have better opinions. With better opinions, word gets around about “NEXT YEAR”

Now next year is going to look better to the entire PE, which supports the possibility that MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SHOW UP. Now if the Full fields show up, there should be no problems per se. All because the majority of the PE chose to share the limited amount of cash in a more efficient manner.

If the prize would have stayed at 25k for 1st, the PE would undoubtly be not very happy…not at all. So you know what happens, word gets out people get angry and no one shows up and Effren gets to play the janitor for $50 dollar sets. By them sharing Effren has a much increased probability of having a much larger purse next year. He thought about today and not tomorrow, and his actions/decisions would in effect create a highly possible loss for him next year.

Basic lemans economic law: In a team consisted of multiple players each with a decision to make casts a vote. Initial thought is to do whats best for the individual players self. This could and most likely cause conflict throught the team. The team prospers most when each individual on the team does what is best for themselves and the TEAM! Tho you are naturally going to have compromises, the team or PE in the end becomes more efficient thus we have a bigger better tournament next year.

Effrens choice tho initially thought by him to be logical, was inherently illogical due to the fact that he arrived at the solution to the formula with only a partial data set.

And you can’t argue with math my friends…
GreyGhost :cool:

PS....This is an undebatable FACT, whomever so choses to debate this is already BUSTED. Opinions do not matter in this matter. Case closed PERIOD
This is not a knock to effren, allison or anyone who thinks otherwise, people do make bad decisions you know, especially when they don't have all the knowledge/info. At the same time, for years its effren is amazing this and that hes really nice bla bla bla. Give the guy a break, as if an uninformed decision makes him the devils advocate or something. If anyone can have him read this post, I think he would agree with the facts. Its very simple to understand, and its not like he had the controlling vote...thats why the whole team made the right decision for the team, not just one person.
 
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Did you run all this by Efren?

My first thought, Greyghost, is that you are either a Professor of Operations Reseach, or you've been smoking some good weed with that guy that beat you in your first one pocket match you talked about on onepocket.org.

As someone who has run linear programming models of refineries, I understand what you are talking about. But from Efren's position, you didn't take into account his age and profiency curve. Efren needs to make the cheese now. As far as the future success of the tournament, they probably made the right call. Another option would have been for the tournament to please everyone and taken a bigger hit out of their own pockets. I know, that's easy to say when I'm not the one leaking money. But it would have been huge for future years. You can't buy better advertising than that.
 
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Lets take a look at some of the theorms and principals of economics and related fields such as game theory.

Game theory is a branch of applied mathematics that studies strategic interactions between agents. In strategic games, agents choose strategies that will maximize their payoff, given the strategies the other agents choose. It provides a formal modeling approach to social situations in which decision makers interact with other agents.
Game theory generalizes maximization approaches developed to analyze markets


Via Robert Axelrod's classic book The Evolution of Cooperation, I had come upon the concept of the "non-zero-sum" game, a game in which there isn't necessarily one winner and one loser, but rather the possibility of two winners—or two losers, depending on whether the players successfully cooperate.
After reading Axelrod's book, I had gotten fascinated by the idea that relations among nations are growing more non-zero-sum.

For example: With nations getting more economically intertwined, their fortunes are more closely correlated, for better and for worse. So too with environmental problems like global warming and ozone depletion and exhaustion of the world's fisheries: Nations adversely affected by these problems will either cooperate to solve them and all win, or fail to solve them and all lose. And so on, in various policy areas—controlling the spread of nuclear and biological weapons, the spread of disease, etc.

Economic efficiency describes how well a system generates the maximum desired output a with a given set of inputs and available technology. Efficiency is improved if more output is generated without changing inputs, or in other words, the amount of "friction" or "waste" is reduced. Economists look for Pareto efficiency, which is reached when a change cannot make someone better off without making someone else worse off.
Economic efficiency is used to refer to a number of related concepts. A system can be called economically efficient if: No one can be made better off without making someone else worse off, more output cannot be obtained without increasing the amount of inputs, and production ensures the lowest possible per unit cost. These definitions of efficiency are not exactly equivalent. However, they are all encompassed by the idea that nothing more can be achieved given the resources available.


In the real world ensuring that nobody is disadvantaged by a change aimed at improving economic efficiency may require compensation of one or more parties. For instance, if a change in economic policy dictates that a legally protected monopoly ceases to exist and that market subsequently becomes competitive and more efficient, the monopolist will be made worse off. However, the loss to the monopolist will be more than offset by the gain in efficiency.
This means the monopolist can be compensated for its loss while still leaving an efficiency gain to be realized by others in the economy, and theoretically the monopolist could gain more by the distribution. Thus, the requirement of nobody being made worse off for a gain to others is met.

Multi-objective optimization (or programming) also known as multi-criteria or multi-attribute optimization, is the process of simultaneously optimizing two or more conflicting objectives subject to certain constraints.

Multiobjective optimization problems can be found in various fields: product and process design, finance, aircraft design, the oil and gas industry, automobile design, or wherever optimal decisions need to be taken in the presence of trade-offs between two or more conflicting objectives.

Maximizing profit and minimizing the cost of a product; maximizing performance and minimizing fuel consumption of a vehicle; and minimizing weight while maximizing the strength of a particular component are examples of multi-objective optimization problems.

If a multiobjective problem is well formed, there should not be a single solution that simultaneously minimizes each objective to its fullest. In each case we are looking for a solution for which each objective has been optimized to the extent that if we try to optimize it any further, then the other objective(s) will suffer as a result. Finding such a solution, and quantifying how much better this solution is compared to other such solutions (there will generally be many) is the goal when setting up and solving a multiobjective optimization problem.

Economic efficiency is used to refer to a number of related concepts. It is the using of resources in such a way as to maximize the production of goods and services.[1] A system can be called economically efficient if:

No one can be made better off without making someone else worse off.
More output cannot be obtained without increasing the amount of inputs.

Production proceeds at the lowest possible per-unit cost.
These definitions of efficiency are not equivalent, but they are all encompassed by the idea that nothing more can be achieved given the resources available.

An economic system is more efficient if it can provide more goods and services for society without using more resources. Market economies are generally believed to be more efficient than other known alternatives.[2] The first fundamental welfare theorem provides some basis for this belief, as it states that any perfectly competitive market equilibrium is efficient (but only if no market imperfections exist).


The brilliant John Nash has developed work on the role of money in society. In the context that people can be so controlled and motivated by money that they may not be able to reason rationally about it.

This is Effrens case tho it seemed rational for him to choose to keep the 25k dollar first place prize, it puts the other players (lets call it PE=Pool Economy) at a higher loss/disadvantage.

Now I’m sure we can all assume that the full fields did not occur in this tournament because of prior un-ethical pratices in the IPT and other such organizations. The P.E. was/is gun shy and rightfully so, and this trickled all the way down to spectators, vendors etc.(of which are part of the PE)

If we had went with Effrens decision to keep the bulk of the money for 1st place, we cast aside the needs of the rest of the PE. So who cares right? WRONG! By the more efficient distribution of money thorought the PE, everyone gets a more FAIR share. Which makes players happy, as we all know this is not a cheap walk in the park. Hotels cost, food, travel, entries. So without this distribution the ones who didn’t get first are at a much greater disadvantage, with better distribution everyones risk values go down. Thus producing a more efficient system.

With a more efficient system, people feel more fairly treated so they will have better opinions. With better opinions, word gets around about “NEXT YEAR”

Now next year is going to look better to the entire PE, which supports the possibility that MORE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SHOW UP. Now if the Full fields show up, there should be no problems per se. All because the majority of the PE chose to share the limited amount of cash in a more efficient manner.

If the prize would have stayed at 25k for 1st, the PE would undoubtly be not very happy…not at all. So you know what happens, word gets out people get angry and no one shows up and Effren gets to play the janitor for $50 dollar sets. By them sharing Effren has a much increased probability of having a much larger purse next year. He thought about today and not tomorrow, and his actions/decisions would in effect create a highly possible loss for him next year.

Basic lemans economic law: In a team consisted of multiple players each with a decision to make casts a vote. Initial thought is to do whats best for the individual players self. This could and most likely cause conflict throught the team. The team prospers most when each individual on the team does what is best for themselves and the TEAM! Tho you are naturally going to have compromises, the team or PE in the end becomes more efficient thus we have a bigger better tournament next year.

Effrens choice tho initially thought by him to be logical, was inherently illogical due to the fact that he arrived at the solution to the formula with only a partial data set.

And you can’t argue with math my friends…
GreyGhost :cool:

PS....This is an undebatable FACT, whomever so choses to debate this is already BUSTED. Opinions do not matter in this matter. Case closed PERIOD
This is not a knock to effren, allison or anyone who thinks otherwise, people do make bad decisions you know, especially when they don't have all the knowledge/info. At the same time, for years its effren is amazing this and that hes really nice bla bla bla. Give the guy a break, as if an uninformed decision makes him the devils advocate or something. If anyone can have him read this post, I think he would agree with the facts. Its very simple to understand, and its not like he had the controlling vote...thats why the whole team made the right decision for the team, not just one person.

Damn Ghost u can get a lil long winded...lol j/k
 
thats it...thats chicken s**t weak right there

Did you run all this by Efren?

My first thought, Greyghost, is that you are either a Professor of Operations Reseach, or you've been smoking some good weed with that guy that beat you in your first one pocket match you talked about on onepocket.org.

As someone who has run linear programming models of refineries, I understand what you are talking about. But from Efren's position, you didn't take into account his age and profiency curve. Efren needs to make the cheese now. As far as the future success of the tournament, they probably made the right call. Another option would have been for the tournament to please everyone and taken a bigger hit out of their own pockets. I know, that's easy to say when I'm not the one leaking money. But it would have been huge for future years. You can't buy better advertising than that.

Don't know where the weed comment came from? Don't try and knock me with some weak personal attack for having a little knowledge and doing the research to provide the ones that dont' know? And as for the gulf coast classic post i was reiterating a great experience...you only brought that up beacuse you can't find anything to say that makes any sense. Go smoke a bowl of that yourself so maybe you can pull some more playground kid crap out of thin air. I didn't want to post an opinoin (which is all you got and you know what they say about those), because it can be skewed to fit your personal beliefs. I posted facts so the uniformed can read it and say, well dam that makes alot of sense. And your comment goes to show me you missed the whole point, because it has nothing to do with Effren...go give him all the money see if he is gonna carry the sport on his back and provide something for anyone in this sport. No i don't know effren thats why I said someone run it by him. And he's a national treasure in the phillipines...hes taken care of and has won enough to keep him fat for a long time even if he quit tomorrow. You got any more BS i need to squash, its light work for me brother you gotta try alot harder. The wanna be smart ass over here, you make me laugh.

Sorry for your loss, you'll get over it
Grey Ghost
 
Actually the weed reference was a joke, because JoeMac is a good friend of mine, and your post was a little long. Not many will wade through all of it. You didn't address anything else in my post. You sound a little wound up, so I'll leave it at that. Have a good night.
 
oh hell i know...just hate to see people always try and knock everything

Damn Ghost u can get a lil long winded...lol j/k

especially when they aint doing nothing to help. I just think its ridiculous some of the things that people just thow out there. I don't think it was all the promoters fault, nor the players not showing (good reasons for gun shy), nor do I think its right for someone to bash on effren for as I said was just a simply not fully informed decision. Opinions never fix things like this, but maybe you lay some real facts out and it would help. I mean come on aint no one perfect. Hell at least they tried, not many are, sad reality.
 
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