can't get a refund [long rant warning!]

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Come on guys, this thread needs to die. The cue maker made a mistake for what ever reason, a mistake is not the same as being deceptive or dishonest who on this forum can say they have not made mistakes. He is a good man and his actions show it, never forget actions speak louder than words.

He is going to correct it, and I am certain like all of us he has learned for it. Any further speculation on everyones part serves no purpose, lets all allow this to die there are many dishonest people to bash and that also need to be bashed if you have the energy bash them. In my opinion this guy is not one of those people and he has not represented himself as such, so come on and leave it be.

JIMO
 
this post is a clear indicator to stay away from sk cues.

We must have read two different posts, I didnt see anything that makes him bad.

Ok, lets beat the dead horse. Sure everyone (including Doug) thinks the money should be sent back as quickly as possible. But things happen and its being handled in the best way he can.

All I got from SK is that we need to be careful how quickly we get on the internet and start bashing people for mistakes without knowing all the details or giving people a chance to work things out. Sometimes this takes more than a couple of conversations.
 
Thanks Eric and Craig for the kind words on this! All I can say is I will make this right as quickly as I possibly can!
 
Come on guys, this thread needs to die. The cue maker made a mistake for what ever reason, a mistake is not the same as being deceptive or dishonest who on this forum can say they have not made mistakes. He is a good man and his actions show it, never forget actions speak louder than words.


I strongly agree with you. Nobody is perfect! I'm sure Doug is not that kind of person and one thing for sure.....I LOVE PLAYING WITH HIS CUE!!!

Jansen.
 
We must have read two different posts, I didnt see anything that makes him bad.

Ok, lets beat the dead horse. Sure everyone (including Doug) thinks the money should be sent back as quickly as possible. But things happen and its being handled in the best way he can.

All I got from SK is that we need to be careful how quickly we get on the internet and start bashing people for mistakes without knowing all the details or giving people a chance to work things out. Sometimes this takes more than a couple of conversations.

sk's post indicated he didnt think that there was anything wrong at all in what patrick cues did. that it is ok to take someones money and not provide the product or a timely refund and that we all (the customer) just need to understand how difficult it is to make cues. see thats why i would never do business with sk cues, although at least patrick cues gets it and i dont think i would hesitate to do business with him b/c of how he has handled himself in this thread.

and manwon? you of all pple shouldnt be giving advice on when threads need to end. i mean really come on

brian
 
Hey Jay, no disrespect, you've never f u c k e d anyone over for a few bucks on the table, right, and you felt bad about it, right.
I guess they didn't call you toupee Jay for nothing.
You should be the last person preaching morals here.
Watch me turn red now.

No, Jay is honest and a great guy to deal with. Not only that, in my opinion he's a good judge of character. Jay can be trusted. He was just trying to help the poster get his refund.

Chris
 
this post is a clear indicator to stay away from sk cues. when you sell something, accept payment then dont deliver the buyer has every right to expect to get his money back in the same timely manner he paid. so what if completing a cue is such a difficult process? how hard do you it think it might have been for the buyer to earn that money? i hope everything works out btwn patrick cues and the OP. sounds like they are trying. i might do business with patrick cues but never with sk cues.

brian

Every time a heated thread like this is started, it starts to get past two pages, and pretty soon, one guy is arguing with another because their beliefs aren't aligned. Another reason for misunderstanding is because guys like you don't read earlier posts. I already stated that Doug was in the wrong. The above post you replied to wasn't even addressed to you, so you're sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. It was between me and Jay and you apparently don't get it. It's too bad you have to make me look bad because I was trying to stand up for a fellow cue maker. If you don't want to do business with me, all you have to do is ignore me. Because you want that to be known publicly shows that it is your intent to do me harm and that is out of line. I hope you go back and learn how to read the entire thread in the future before you decide to insult someone. Again, this is a simple example of being presumptuous without having all the details.


At this point, any further bickering between anyone except the OP and Doug is totally inappropriate. Since both parties appear to be headed in the clear, I will step respectfully step out. I want to thank Jay for being the stand up guy that he is and recognizing when he is wrong and more importantly, being a good example for us all to follow. We could all learn something from that. After all, Jay is THE premiere ambassador and pool just wouldn't be the same without him. My reason for posting in this thread has conclusively served it's purpose. Let's all just learn to get along.
 
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Every time a heated thread like this is started, it starts to get past two pages, and pretty soon, one guy is arguing with another because their beliefs aren't aligned. Another reason for misunderstanding is because guys like you don't read earlier posts. I already stated that Doug was in the wrong. The above post you replied to wasn't even addressed to you, so you're sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. It was between me and Jay and you apparently don't get it. It's too bad you have to make me look bad because I was trying to stand up for a fellow cue maker. If you don't want to do business with me, then please, don't. Because you want that to be known publicly show that you mean to insult me and that is wrong. I hope you go back and learn how to read the entire thread in the future before you decide to insult someone. Again, this is a simple example of being presumptuous without having all the details.

It will never end. Sometimes, I wonder why I try.

i wonder why you try as well. i dont know why you assume i didnt read the entire thread b/c i did. as soon as you say something in a public forum you make what you say a matter that involves everyone. if you wanted to keep it btwn you and jay then you should have pm'ed him. if you really thought that doug patrick was wrong why did you feel that you had to "stand up" for a fellow cue maker? mr patrick did a fine job standing up for himself. i see you dont deny my point which is that you feel its all right to get paid, not provide the product then not provide a speedy refund apparently b/c being a cuemaker is so hard. that makes me not want to do business with you. apparently i am not the only one that saw it that way either. so you see i didnt make you look bad, you made yourself look bad. you should just stop while you are not too far behind.

brian
 
sk's post indicated he didnt think that there was anything wrong at all in what patrick cues did. that it is ok to take someones money and not provide the product or a timely refund and that we all (the customer) just need to understand how difficult it is to make cues. see thats why i would never do business with sk cues, although at least patrick cues gets it and i dont think i would hesitate to do business with him b/c of how he has handled himself in this thread.

and manwon? you of all pple shouldnt be giving advice on when threads need to end. i mean really come on

brian


I have ever right to be involved here, I have been involved in more of these threads than any other person in this thread. When some one is getting screwed I have their back completely, while others sit by and do and say nothing until things become blatant. To this day their are people on this forum who still support Varney, two years ago when I stepped up and attacked him for his behavior I stood alone, now he is known for what he is. There have been many more cases where I have also become involved, I really hate to see people lose their hard earned money, whether it from mis-advertised Cheap import cues or if it is direct theft. But, in this case it truly appears to be a mistake along with some bad judgment, but I am completely sure that this problem will be resolved. If your pissed at the other cue maker start a thread let the world know, but this thread no longer serves it's intended purpose.

I speak my mind, and I stand up for what I believe and what I say until proven wrong, so yes maybe I should be giving advice because I am completely neutral in this entire discussion, I have never met Doug Patrick.

Just remember if you want to keep you shoes dry don't Piss in the wind!!!!:)
 
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It's pretty hard to do if the cuemaker is not a ACA member. I can guarantee they would and do step in on situations like this if one of their members gets out of line. Its one of the advantages in dealing with ACA approved cuemakers. To bad there isn't a casemakers orginazation like the ACA.

With all due respect Mr. Justis this is not entirely true. I have a friend who has been owed a $2500 cue that he sent back to a well respected and famous cue maker to have some work done on. That cue has never been returned despite my friend's pleas to the cue maker himself nor to the ACA of which he is revered member. This is going on 10 years now. And before some of you ask, no I will not reveal the names of either party.

I don't believe that the ACA has any real power to enforce a contract between the customer and the cue maker nor do they want to get involved in disputes.

I do agree with you that it would be great to have some kind of consumer protection group for billiards. It seems that in billiards there is a high incidence of of things like cue maker time happening to consumers.

I believe you can start a case maker's organization. Who would you pick as charter members? There certainly seems to be enough of you now.

;-)

P.S. My Justis case is one of the best possessions I have among the many fine cases I own. Never does one hear of any negative story concerning how you conduct your business.
 
I have ever right to be involved here, I have been involved in more of these threads than any other person in this thread. When some one is getting screwed I have their back completely, while others sit by and do and say nothing until things become blatant. To this day their are people on this forum who still support Varney, two years ago when I stepped up and attacked him for his behavior I stood alone, now he is known for what he is. There have been many more cases where I have also become involved, I really hate to see people lose their hard earned money, whether it from mis-advertised Cheap import cues or if it is direct theft. But, in this case it truly appears to be a mistake along with some bad judgment, but I am completely sure that this problem will be resolved. If your pissed at the other cue maker start a thread let the world know, but this thread no longer serves it's intended purpose.

I speak my mind, and I stand up for what I believe and what I say until proven wrong, so yes maybe I should be giving advice because I am completely neutral in this entire discussion, I have never met Doug Patrick.

Just remember if you want to keep you shoes dry don't Piss in the wind!!!!:)

Craig, I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but sometimes some are too quick to jump in either ignoring or not checking the facts, I quote your earlier post and, not to fan the flames, but you rolled Doug under the bus without really looking at the facts as presented earlier in this thread.


"Partner, maybe you don't understand cue building or maybe you did not read the rest of this thread, or what ever. However, first let me tell you, the cue was for sale for almost two weeks before it sold. When a cue is put up sale in most cases everyone normally assumes that it is completed unless it is advertised differently and this cue wasn't.

Next, pins do not come loose so quickly unless they were not glued in the first place and this all gets back to checking a cue out before you post it up for sale, and the same go's for checking the fit of the cues shafts.
Here, you are accusing him of faulty craftsmanship, and misrepresenting the cue
Doug, I do not mean this as anything disrespectful to you personally we all make mistakes, but in this case the buyer is completely correct, so just admit you made a mistake give him his money and on to the next project, anything else is foolish."

JIMO
Here you are basically insinuating that he tried to deny any mistake or fault on his part....even after he owned up to it in this thread and the other one way before you made a post.
You made these statements, apparently without either reading all the posts, or ignoring them and making your own conclusions with a dose of self rightousness. And as a fellow cuemaker/builder you 'Chastized' him, and told him to just make right. Well in case you didn't get the memo, he has been trying to do so, but the OP hadn't been all that receptive right from the start. The buyer wasn't completely correct, as your statement asserts, as he left out some of the details that the email trail from Doug has shown, like how rude he was to Doug after Doug told him the truth about the pin, gave some options and explained his repayment circumstances if the OP chose that option. Maybe you are sitting on a wealth of funds due to your sales business of imports and production cues to do an immediate refund, but Doug apparently isn't,and he made that clear and asked for some patience, and told him his plan to repay him, but three days later he was offered up as a public sacrifice, and your statements,effectivly was equal to throwing him under the bus.... I'm sure in this economy there are others in the same boat, that are FULL time cue builders that haven't been doing it so long as others, or own their own business that has money coming in daily, from other avenues such as pre-made cue sales and therefore they don't have the deep pockets. They need to pay their mortgage like anyone else.
This doesn't absolve them of mistakes, but in this case Doug wasn't a Varney, Eason, Wheat, etc. and his previous rep on here should have born that out, and an 'elder' sort of speak, such as your self should have looked at the whole picture before openly passing judgements/statements like this, JMHO.but sometimes people are just too quick to be the "voice" and lead the charge, rather than take the time to assess the situation before making any statements.Maybe the way you meant these comments weren't intended to come across as I took them, but others took them the same way that I did, and caused, IMO, damage to his rep that he didn't deserve. For you to then deny any part in the lynch mob that took place, I find deplorable. So here's my advice: " so just admit you made a mistake and on to the next project, anything else is foolish."[/I think you stated earlier......
Please remember, the Buyer will get his money back, because that's the type of guy Doug appears to be, but Doug will still be out the cost of materials, and profit on this deal, ($1200) so I think he paid enough for this unfortunate experince.
Just my humble op.
Dave
 
Craig, I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but sometimes some are too quick to jump in either ignoring or not checking the facts, I quote your earlier post and, not to fan the flames, but you rolled Doug under the bus without really looking at the facts as presented earlier in this thread.


"Partner, maybe you don't understand cue building or maybe you did not read the rest of this thread, or what ever. However, first let me tell you, the cue was for sale for almost two weeks before it sold. When a cue is put up sale in most cases everyone normally assumes that it is completed unless it is advertised differently and this cue wasn't.

Next, pins do not come loose so quickly unless they were not glued in the first place and this all gets back to checking a cue out before you post it up for sale, and the same go's for checking the fit of the cues shafts.
Here, you are accusing him of faulty craftsmanship, and misrepresenting the cue
Doug, I do not mean this as anything disrespectful to you personally we all make mistakes, but in this case the buyer is completely correct, so just admit you made a mistake give him his money and on to the next project, anything else is foolish."

JIMO
Here you are basically insinuating that he tried to deny any mistake or fault on his part....even after he owned up to it in this thread and the other one way before you made a post.
You made these statements, apparently without either reading all the posts, or ignoring them and making your own conclusions with a dose of self rightousness. And as a fellow cuemaker/builder you 'Chastized' him, and told him to just make right. Well in case you didn't get the memo, he has been trying to do so, but the OP hadn't been all that receptive right from the start. The buyer wasn't completely correct, as your statement asserts, as he left out some of the details that the email trail from Doug has shown, like how rude he was to Doug after Doug told him the truth about the pin, gave some options and explained his repayment circumstances if the OP chose that option. Maybe you are sitting on a wealth of funds due to your sales business of imports and production cues to do an immediate refund, but Doug apparently isn't,and he made that clear and asked for some patience, and told him his plan to repay him, but three days later he was offered up as a public sacrifice, and your statements,effectivly was equal to throwing him under the bus.... I'm sure in this economy there are others in the same boat, that are FULL time cue builders that haven't been doing it so long as others, or own their own business that has money coming in daily, from other avenues such as pre-made cue sales and therefore they don't have the deep pockets. They need to pay their mortgage like anyone else.
This doesn't absolve them of mistakes, but in this case Doug wasn't a Varney, Eason, Wheat, etc. and his previous rep on here should have born that out, and an 'elder' sort of speak, such as your self should have looked at the whole picture before openly passing judgements/statements like this, JMHO.but sometimes people are just too quick to be the "voice" and lead the charge, rather than take the time to assess the situation before making any statements.Maybe the way you meant these comments weren't intended to come across as I took them, but others took them the same way that I did, and caused, IMO, damage to his rep that he didn't deserve. For you to then deny any part in the lynch mob that took place, I find deplorable. So here's my advice: " so just admit you made a mistake and on to the next project, anything else is foolish."[/I think you stated earlier......
Please remember, the Buyer will get his money back, because that's the type of guy Doug appears to be, but Doug will still be out the cost of materials, and profit on this deal, ($1200) so I think he paid enough for this unfortunate experince.
Just my humble op.
Dave

Well said Dave. But you probably wasted your fingers here.
 
This is like A bad combination of Judge Judy, Jerry Springer and Dr. Phil!!!!!!!!!

Good luck to Doug, no one is perfect. And I mean NO ONE!
 
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