Really? I haven't checked since I already have my table, but good info to know.
I wonder why they charge extra, it's not like it costs more. All they are doing is using longer rails.
Gold Crown 4 vs. Diamond
- Thread starter The Kiss
- Start date
Really? I haven't checked since I already have my table, but good info to know.
I wonder why they charge extra, it's not like it costs more. All they are doing is using longer rails.
I prefer the Gold Crown IV. Diamonds are good too, but I prefer the look, and play of the GC.
Regretfully the Gold Crown IV was probably the weakest in the Gold Crown series. And the Gold Crown V may be the best! I have a used Diamond for sale, a two year old tournament table. PM me for information. It's in Las Vegas.
I just looked at the website and I don't see any mention of 900 extra for pocket type.
Provide a link xianmacx to the exact page where you saw this. Until i see it I don't believe it and urge everyone on here to not believe it either. Diamond makes excellent tables cheaper than Brunswick. That's the bottom line.
I retract this as I thought he was referring to the diamonds. I read his post to fast and I apologize.
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One of the nicest things about the design of the Diamond I dont hear discussed much is that the long rails are one piece and the way the rails join to each other in the corners. Diamond rails have biscuits and dowels to insure 90deg alignment. They cannot be assembled incorrectly. Gold crown rails need special attention to insure they are square and straight.
Gold Crowns and Diamonds are the cream of the crop. In the used market it comes down to price and availability. For a new table theres no comparison, Diamond all the way.
Gold Crowns and Diamonds are the cream of the crop. In the used market it comes down to price and availability. For a new table theres no comparison, Diamond all the way.
The GCV Tournament Edition is the one with the tighter pockets. This table is $650 more than the standard GCV:
Scroll down the page and you will see the features of the GCV TE where it mentions the tighter pockets (This is really the only difference except the graphics):
http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/brunswick_collection/tables/competition/gold_crown_v_features.html
Here's the link to the pricing: http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/build_your_own_table/flash.php?table=gold_crown_v
click on mahogany/nickel or matte black/nickel for the standard GC5 and the price shown is $9,748
Now click on the Tournament Edition / Mahogany and the price is $10,398. The difference is $650.
I was wrong, its $700
Here is the main description from the Gold crown V website. Now click the drop down on the page and select "tournament Edition" watch the price change...
Since 1961, the Brunswick Gold Crown has reigned as the industry’s best playing professional pool table. The Gold Crown V continues in this tradition with sophisticated new styling, while still maintaining its classic lines. Features include new corner castings, apron details, and a redesigned ball storage area, giving the Gold Crown V table a stronger, bolder appearance.
The Gold Crown V Tournament Edition table features longer rails and tighter pockets engineered to strict World Pool-Billiard Association specifications. Table decals included. Available in a nine-foot mahogany with nickel trim version only.
http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/brunswick_collection/tables/competition/gold_crown_v.html
1) If aesthetics are important to you, Diamond tables are just plain dog ugly. Sorry, no matter how well they are built or play I don't see any excuse for the awful Citroen BX styling. (My mother used to drive one of those and the horror is deeply imprinted upon me.) I mean, c'mon Diamond. The GCIV kicks any Diamond's butt for looks alone, especially if you can find one with the black gloss finish. (Schwing!)
2) The GCIV is now often found much cheaper in the used market, whereas any Diamond seems to hold it's value much better, despite it's original cost price often being lower than the Brunwsick. This may tell you something about the perceived value of the Diamond in the marketplace, but I also think it is a result of much less supply (I'd guess that Gold Crowns have outsold Diamond in the USA by 10:1) and that pretty much only total Pool wonks like us would know the difference and be prepared to pay for it.
3) Most any GC can be made into IMHO just as good a playing table by a quality table mechanic. This costs extra, but when you buy, break down and move the table is the perfect time to do it. It can be cheaper to have a GC "Diamondized" than to buy a Diamond in the first place.
4) Most used Diamonds in the market are the one-piece slate tournament model. Not only is this EVEN more dog ugly than the regular Diamond (No, I didn't think it was possible until I first saw one, although to be fair the uber-hideous skirts and legs do conceal a rock-solid ball return, if this is important to you) it does limit the options for moving and installing it. I was actually very close to buying a used one but got stymied as there was only one Diamond mechanic in my area who'd move it and he was off sick that week.
5) As noted in 4) finding a table mechanic with good experience working on Diamonds can be hard to do, depending on your area, due to lower market penetration.
2) The GCIV is now often found much cheaper in the used market, whereas any Diamond seems to hold it's value much better, despite it's original cost price often being lower than the Brunwsick. This may tell you something about the perceived value of the Diamond in the marketplace, but I also think it is a result of much less supply (I'd guess that Gold Crowns have outsold Diamond in the USA by 10:1) and that pretty much only total Pool wonks like us would know the difference and be prepared to pay for it.
3) Most any GC can be made into IMHO just as good a playing table by a quality table mechanic. This costs extra, but when you buy, break down and move the table is the perfect time to do it. It can be cheaper to have a GC "Diamondized" than to buy a Diamond in the first place.
4) Most used Diamonds in the market are the one-piece slate tournament model. Not only is this EVEN more dog ugly than the regular Diamond (No, I didn't think it was possible until I first saw one, although to be fair the uber-hideous skirts and legs do conceal a rock-solid ball return, if this is important to you) it does limit the options for moving and installing it. I was actually very close to buying a used one but got stymied as there was only one Diamond mechanic in my area who'd move it and he was off sick that week.
5) As noted in 4) finding a table mechanic with good experience working on Diamonds can be hard to do, depending on your area, due to lower market penetration.
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That's not what you told me. :grin-square:
Actually Jay, I respectfully disagree with this. When I bought my "4" I was choosing between a 3 or a 4. I did some research and one of the reasons I went with the GC4 was on input from RKC. I asked him straight up which was the better table and he said the the GC4.
His major problem with the 4 was what he considered a design flaw in the frame that could potentially result in slate sag at the head and foot ends. Perhaps this is what you meant by "weakest". Obviously this could be a huge issue, especially from a mechanic's perspective, but RKC devised a simple and cheap fix for this that eliminates the problem. He has a thread on here somewhere that explains the mod with pics included. Of course, Donny (SD Billiards) performed this modification to my table when he built it. :thumbup2: So as far as I'm concerned, this is a non-issue.
Some of the earlier GC's (the 2 and 3 maybe?) were available with a less expensive slate substitute. Buyer beware.
In regard to the OP, inspect the castings on any GC4 you may be looking to buy, especially if they are the bronze ones. These had a tendency to pit or corrode over time. Mine were pretty beat up but I took care of that with a relatively inexpensive trip to the powder coaters (about $100 - $150, and I get to choose whatever color I wanted).
Also, I believe the GC4 (and the GC5 maybe) were available with less expensive 3/4" slate in addition to the standard 1". Check this on any table you are considering.
BTW, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on how many pro tournaments or tours use what table. Just like players that compete with Cuetec's, at the pro level they will often use which ever table will pay them more to sponsor the events or whichever company provides a less expensive deal in providing the tables. I've seen pro events on Olhausens, Connelly's and whatever else. Similarly, you will see events sponsored by Brunswick where they are not even playing on a GC because Brunswick wanted to get exposure for it's "furniture" line. I would say the increased use of Diamond tables in pro events has more to do with the support Diamond has provided (which is a good thing by the way). But I would suggest that if Brunswick or Olhausen offered a better deal to the promoter you would see the event played on that equipment instead.
I have had both... (well Gold Crown III vs diamond PA)
I traded in my gold crown (III however) for a diamond pro am. There are many advantages to the diamond table:
Tougher pockets - you must strike the ball well to pocket it on the diamond (my game has improved since I bought the diamond).
Quality of table - you need only to pocket a ball hard on a diamond to hear the difference - the sound is pure and does not have that loud clangy noise the gold crowns had. Diamond stacks there tables 4 high - could you do that with a gold crown? Also - the market perceives diamond as a higher quality table - look at re-sale. Buy a Gold Crown and right when it leaves the showroom floor it loses 50% of its value. Look at e-bay at any given time and see how many gold crowns are for sale vs. diamonds. Also look at asking prices.
pockets - all leather vs the plastic pockets gold crown uses which end up on your shaft when you bridge.
pockets are all flush with the rails with a diamond.
Lively rails - the artimis rubber is the nuts on the pro-ams. Much easier to travel the cue ball around the table.
Ball return (pro-am) - is the fastest of any table.
The only drawbacks I have found with a diamond are - no counters, no place on the table to hold a bridge, no place to put pocketed balls (when playing one pocket) and the diamond table DOES bank short.
In my opinion though the advantages FAR outweight the dis-advantages.
I traded in my gold crown (III however) for a diamond pro am. There are many advantages to the diamond table:
Tougher pockets - you must strike the ball well to pocket it on the diamond (my game has improved since I bought the diamond).
Quality of table - you need only to pocket a ball hard on a diamond to hear the difference - the sound is pure and does not have that loud clangy noise the gold crowns had. Diamond stacks there tables 4 high - could you do that with a gold crown? Also - the market perceives diamond as a higher quality table - look at re-sale. Buy a Gold Crown and right when it leaves the showroom floor it loses 50% of its value. Look at e-bay at any given time and see how many gold crowns are for sale vs. diamonds. Also look at asking prices.
pockets - all leather vs the plastic pockets gold crown uses which end up on your shaft when you bridge.
pockets are all flush with the rails with a diamond.
Lively rails - the artimis rubber is the nuts on the pro-ams. Much easier to travel the cue ball around the table.
Ball return (pro-am) - is the fastest of any table.
The only drawbacks I have found with a diamond are - no counters, no place on the table to hold a bridge, no place to put pocketed balls (when playing one pocket) and the diamond table DOES bank short.
In my opinion though the advantages FAR outweight the dis-advantages.
Horse crap. The best looking table out there is a Diamond pro am with the charcoal diamondwood (Black with gray wood grain) and tournament blue simonis. Its what the SR71 Black Bird is to airplanes, f***ing slick!!! I am sorry any table that uses Plastic like the Gold crowns in the pockets cant be considered good looking, it just looks plain cheap.
We are all entitled to our opinions so like I said, Horse Crap!
You actually pay extra for the writing (at least on the Diamond Pro's) and the only writing that is standard on the ProAm is the on the short rail. But, for advertising purposes all the tables you see in tournaments have all the writing on them so everyone knows what they are. As you can get a good discount on tournament used tables, most halls that have tables have tournament used ones, which is why you always see all the writing on the sides.
Brian
I think the Professional is a much better looking table. The ProAm looks too much like a bar box for me. My wife on the other hand hates the look of both, but she loves the look of a black Gandy Big G, which is what we have now. I am seriously looking at finding a way to get rid of the plastic in the drop pockets and getting some sort of black leather for them.
Brian
I hate plastic/rubber pocket liners. How can anyone who ever played pool think these are a good idea. I replaced mine with leather ones I got from Muellers. They didn't list them for my application but I called and they were able to get them for me, $80 total. I trimmed and mounted them without much problem.
Run the Century
You are the only other person who brought up the short bank on Diamond tables. No one addressed my Question about Diamond Rails being a tad higher and therefore causing short banks.
Really old Diamonds, I'm not sure of the exact years, have rails that are a little high. Diamond has corrected the problem.
Correct cushion height is 1 7/16
Diamond hand wrote the serial # in fat black marker on every wooden part of the table except the legs and frame. Newer tables are stamped.
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