"Biz"

Fatboy

Fatboy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just made a post in a different thread I liked it so much I decided to start a thread on the topic.

"Biz"


If you gamble and are around pool you know what it is, and there ia pleanty of it. So here are my thoughts. what are yours??


Like I said in this thread befor, its just best left not talked about. There is a lot of "Biz" in pool, anyone who thinks otherwise just hasnt been around very long or been out and about. Like the Derby for example, I've been tossed off by a guy I put in the box there one time, big deal it happens(I learned a little something), the best situation is knowing about the "Biz" and getting rail bets down-easier said than done, information is great. But that not honest, but it is free $$$. what to do????

There is a fine line between a hustle and fraud, the net result is the same. Its just word games. Theother thread had a post about dumping a bar tender for $100 it was written in a blatent way about chopping up the bar tender, never chop up the house man! Get the house man on your team hire him and you'll get protection as well as action, unless the house man is double steering you. who to trust???



When anyone of us as people aquire money, someone lost it. (unless they are counterfitters). With all $$$ transactions there is gain and loss. You can justify your gain if your a barbarber and cut someones hair for $20. The barbarber gains $20, the customer lost $20. Fair deal. Thats in the service industry. If you trade merchandice for $$$ you are a merchant and every move is done with a profit motive, the buyer is the loser of the $$$ but gains the property. All this is nice and warm fuzzy, PC, idealistic facts.
Now I know I can trust my barbarber, phew I was getting nervious.

It gets henky when someone aquires $$$ and the other person gets nothing for it(perhaps a life lession). Look at the tragic death/murder of Mike last week, It appears that robbery was the motive. Or drug $$$, desperate people do desperate unthinkable things as in that case. That is the worst possible conduct anyone can commit. He robbed Mike of all he was and everything he was going to be. RIP Mike.

Down a notch from the most extreme circumstance as noted above, is figuring out how to extract $$$ from someone(or a business) and provide little or nothing in return. If you sell your car and take all the $$$ and go bet it on a hand of 21 and lose the casino just won your car and you got NOTHING in return. If someone steals your car your in the exact same spot. The only difference is one act was against your will, the other was your plan. One is illegal the other is legal, the results are the same. I'm confused:confused: where did my car go?

The perception of the method of aquireing $$$ is all i'm talking about. So when you match up with someone playing $100 sets any sane person thinks they have the best of it, both sides do thats why its called gambling. When the set is over and the score is 11-9 did the winner earn the $$$? what if it was 11-0? did he rob the guy? The results are the same. Its our perception that is different nothing else. If you win 11-0 and the guy calls tails for a 2nd set, do you say "you cant win I'll give you the 5 ball"? Or are you happy because you KNOW your going to win $100 more. What would you do in that spot? You do whats best for yourself. We all do. When its cold outside we come inside to a warm room. Its human nature. Thats too much to think about-i'd rather point fingers.


there is a very blurry line between hustling and fraud. And in the modern era on mincing up words trying to make our selves look PC and all that BS, it all boils down to the same result. Some will win others will lose-buyer beware. You have to have a con in this land of milk and honey or your just not going to survive, unless we become a communist nation.


those are my shallow thoughts on "Biz"


the end
 
Fatboy said:
I just made a post in a different thread I liked it so much I decided to start a thread on the topic.

"Biz"


If you gamble and are around pool you know what it is, and there ia pleanty of it. So here are my thoughts. what are yours??


Like I said in this thread befor, its just best left not talked about. There is a lot of "Biz" in pool, anyone who thinks otherwise just hasnt been around very long or been out and about. Like the Derby for example, I've been tossed off by a guy I put in the box there one time, big deal it happens(I learned a little something), the best situation is knowing about the "Biz" and getting rail bets down-easier said than done, information is great. But that not honest, but it is free $$$. what to do????

There is a fine line between a hustle and fraud, the net result is the same. Its just word games. Theother thread had a post about dumping a bar tender for $100 it was written in a blatent way about chopping up the bar tender, never chop up the house man! Get the house man on your team hire him and you'll get protection as well as action, unless the house man is double steering you. who to trust???



When anyone of us as people aquire money, someone lost it. (unless they are counterfitters). With all $$$ transactions there is gain and loss. You can justify your gain if your a barbarber and cut someones hair for $20. The barbarber gains $20, the customer lost $20. Fair deal. Thats in the service industry. If you trade merchandice for $$$ you are a merchant and every move is done with a profit motive, the buyer is the loser of the $$$ but gains the property. All this is nice and warm fuzzy, PC, idealistic facts.
Now I know I can trust my barbarber, phew I was getting nervious.

It gets henky when someone aquires $$$ and the other person gets nothing for it(perhaps a life lession). Look at the tragic death/murder of Mike last week, It appears that robbery was the motive. Or drug $$$, desperate people do desperate unthinkable things as in that case. That is the worst possible conduct anyone can commit. He robbed Mike of all he was and everything he was going to be. RIP Mike.

Down a notch from the most extreme circumstance as noted above, is figuring out how to extract $$$ from someone(or a business) and provide little or nothing in return. If you sell your car and take all the $$$ and go bet it on a hand of 21 and lose the casino just won your car and you got NOTHING in return. If someone steals your car your in the exact same spot. The only difference is one act was against your will, the other was your plan. One is illegal the other is legal, the results are the same. I'm confused:confused: where did my car go?

The perception of the method of aquireing $$$ is all i'm talking about. So when you match up with someone playing $100 sets any sane person thinks they have the best of it, both sides do thats why its called gambling. When the set is over and the score is 11-9 did the winner earn the $$$? what if it was 11-0? did he rob the guy? The results are the same. Its our perception that is different nothing else. If you win 11-0 and the guy calls tails for a 2nd set, do you say "you cant win I'll give you the 5 ball"? Or are you happy because you KNOW your going to win $100 more. What would you do in that spot? You do whats best for yourself. We all do. When its cold outside we come inside to a warm room. Its human nature. Thats too much to think about-i'd rather point fingers.


there is a very blurry line between hustling and fraud. And in the modern era on mincing up words trying to make our selves look PC and all that BS, it all boils down to the same result. Some will win others will lose-buyer beware. You have to have a con in this land of milk and honey or your just not going to survive, unless we become a communist nation.


those are my shallow thoughts on "Biz"


the end
Click to expand...

That's quite profound my friend...:wink:
 
"Biz" In Pool Playing

There are 2 types of "Biz" in pool playing. One is gambling, and the other is entertainment.

In gambling, nothing is created. Players match up and money is re-distributed based on the outcomes of the games. Unfortunately, there isn't near as much money in a pool room as there is on a golf course or at a poker table to get re-distributed in the first place.

In tournaments and exhibitions, entertainment is the product being sold to spectators and viewers, via T.V., live stream, DVD, etc. Pro pool players need to realize that their biggest potential to make money is with their entertainment value.

Poker became huge when it was made more entertaining on T.V. Turning the players into recognizable characters, and showing the viewers their cards and odds percentages made the game much more enjoyable to potential viewers.

Every other successful sport realizes they are selling entertainment, and markets themselves accordingly. I believe this is where pro pool has fallen short.

When someone finds the right formula for selling pool as mainstream entertainment, the game will explode.

There will also be more money floating around pool rooms as a result.
 
Cuaba said:
There are 2 types of "Biz" in pool playing. One is gambling, and the other is entertainment.

In gambling, nothing is created. Players match up and money is re-distributed based on the outcomes of the games. Unfortunately, there isn't near as much money in a pool room as there is on a golf course or at a poker table to get re-distributed in the first place.

In tournaments and exhibitions, entertainment is the product being sold to spectators and viewers, via T.V., live stream, DVD, etc. Pro pool players need to realize that their biggest potential to make money is with their entertainment value.

Poker became huge when it was made more entertaining on T.V. Turning the players into recognizable characters, and showing the viewers their cards and odds percentages made the game much more enjoyable to potential viewers.

Every other successful sport realizes they are selling entertainment, and markets themselves accordingly. I believe this is where pro pool has fallen short.

When someone finds the right formula for selling pool as mainstream entertainment, the game will explode.

There will also be more money floating around pool rooms as a result.
Click to expand...

In my eyes a lot of people act like having a personality is against pool etiquette. What will sell? Tom Cruise-ish TCOM type playing? I know a lot of people that complain when any player isn't a stationary robot pocketing balls.

There is a difference when it comes to poker and it's marketing ability compared to pool. I'm not saying a newb can go rob Phil Ivey out of 20k,but there is some luck involved. If you throw Johnny Archer out there against nearly anyone..He's going to rape them

I think pool is hard to sell because of
1.Money
2.Stereotypes
3.It's a tough game..You have to play..You have to practice..It takes time..Some people can't focus on paying their water bills on time..Let alone something that takes full concentration.(ADD generation),and doesn't yield huge results immediately ($$$ wise)
 
Last edited:
Fatboy said:
I just made a post in a different thread I liked it so much I decided to start a thread on the topic.

"Biz"


If you gamble and are around pool you know what it is, and there ia pleanty of it. So here are my thoughts. what are yours??


Like I said in this thread befor, its just best left not talked about. There is a lot of "Biz" in pool, anyone who thinks otherwise just hasnt been around very long or been out and about. Like the Derby for example, I've been tossed off by a guy I put in the box there one time, big deal it happens(I learned a little something), the best situation is knowing about the "Biz" and getting rail bets down-easier said than done, information is great. But that not honest, but it is free $$$. what to do????

There is a fine line between a hustle and fraud, the net result is the same. Its just word games. Theother thread had a post about dumping a bar tender for $100 it was written in a blatent way about chopping up the bar tender, never chop up the house man! Get the house man on your team hire him and you'll get protection as well as action, unless the house man is double steering you. who to trust???



When anyone of us as people aquire money, someone lost it. (unless they are counterfitters). With all $$$ transactions there is gain and loss. You can justify your gain if your a barbarber and cut someones hair for $20. The barbarber gains $20, the customer lost $20. Fair deal. Thats in the service industry. If you trade merchandice for $$$ you are a merchant and every move is done with a profit motive, the buyer is the loser of the $$$ but gains the property. All this is nice and warm fuzzy, PC, idealistic facts.
Now I know I can trust my barbarber, phew I was getting nervious.

It gets henky when someone aquires $$$ and the other person gets nothing for it(perhaps a life lession). Look at the tragic death/murder of Mike last week, It appears that robbery was the motive. Or drug $$$, desperate people do desperate unthinkable things as in that case. That is the worst possible conduct anyone can commit. He robbed Mike of all he was and everything he was going to be. RIP Mike.

Down a notch from the most extreme circumstance as noted above, is figuring out how to extract $$$ from someone(or a business) and provide little or nothing in return. If you sell your car and take all the $$$ and go bet it on a hand of 21 and lose the casino just won your car and you got NOTHING in return. If someone steals your car your in the exact same spot. The only difference is one act was against your will, the other was your plan. One is illegal the other is legal, the results are the same. I'm confused:confused: where did my car go?

The perception of the method of aquireing $$$ is all i'm talking about. So when you match up with someone playing $100 sets any sane person thinks they have the best of it, both sides do thats why its called gambling. When the set is over and the score is 11-9 did the winner earn the $$$? what if it was 11-0? did he rob the guy? The results are the same. Its our perception that is different nothing else. If you win 11-0 and the guy calls tails for a 2nd set, do you say "you cant win I'll give you the 5 ball"? Or are you happy because you KNOW your going to win $100 more. What would you do in that spot? You do whats best for yourself. We all do. When its cold outside we come inside to a warm room. Its human nature. Thats too much to think about-i'd rather point fingers.


there is a very blurry line between hustling and fraud. And in the modern era on mincing up words trying to make our selves look PC and all that BS, it all boils down to the same result. Some will win others will lose-buyer beware. You have to have a con in this land of milk and honey or your just not going to survive, unless we become a communist nation.


those are my shallow thoughts on "Biz"


the end
Click to expand...

so when you say "biz" youre not talking about a model for pool as a business but rather "biz" as i "funny business" or perhaps less than ethical practices?

brian
 
pocketspeed said:
so when you say "biz" youre not talking about a model for pool as a business but rather "biz" as i "funny business" or perhaps less than ethical practices?

brian
Click to expand...



Biz= Dumping your stake horse. When the guys playing are working together as a team to steal the stake horses $$$, with out the guy putting up the $$$ knowlege. Like point shaving in college basketball. Very unethical.


there are lots of words for it, business, tossing off, dumping, chopping up etc. It goes on often as it guarantees the players a payday because they create the intended outcome and pre-arriange the settlement.
 
hey

Fatboy said:
Biz= Dumping your stake horse. When the guys playing are working together as a team to steal the stake horses $$$, with out the guy putting up the $$$ knowlege. Like point shaving in college basketball. Very unethical.


there are lots of words for it, business, tossing off, dumping, chopping up etc. It goes on often as it guarantees the players a payday because they create the intended outcome and pre-arriange the settlement.
Click to expand...



Eric, I have been discussing this theme with a bunch of people over the last year or so. I was saying that in everyday life you have to constantly mis trust anything anybody tells you, at first. And bringing in the old poolroom meantality, where everything is a scam or a hustle whether its over $1 or $1000.

I truly believe that the five years I spent in the pool room every day when I was a kid, taught me some very valuable life lessons. Such as.....
You will never be in the right place at the right time.
This deal is too good to be true.
I cant lose on this bet.
Etc...........

Taking that aproach as I got older was very helpfull to me in business, as i was allways on the lookout for the hustle. It is kind of humorous when you meet some people that never outgrew the old poolroom ways and are still living in that "who can I rip off next" mode.

For me personally, I have taken all the mistakes that I have seen people do and tried to not repeat the same. From my parents to teachers to a guy that dumped a game of straight pool for $5....LOL

I am not too sure how this fits in with your post.....but I hope it helps.
 
Everybody knows it happens !

I put it on the lowest of poles on the pool totum pole....If somebody has enough faith in you to stake you in a match...You should respect that person..NOT treat him like a mark..it's one of the reasons i will only stake a select few these days..too bad there aren't stiffer penalties for the ones that practice such things...It's way too sad that it just goes with the territory attitude....If i found out for sure that I was dumped then i wouldn't just take it on the chin..I would deffinately let the dogs out....just like the thief that breaks into somebody's house & gets shot by the home owner then sometimes the thief gets what they deserve...JMHO
 
Fatboy said:
Like the Derby for example, I've been tossed off by a guy I put in the box there one time
Click to expand...

Please, please, PLEASE don't ever repeat this statement ever again when you know your audience includes British folks. I really didn't need that mental image.

As for "Biz", I am a firm believer in the principle that if you can't figure out who the sucker in the deal is then you obviously haven't looked in a mirror lately.
 
Fatboy said:
I just made a post in a different thread I liked it so much I decided to start a thread on the topic.

"Biz"


If you gamble and are around pool you know what it is, and there ia pleanty of it. So here are my thoughts. what are yours??


Like I said in this thread befor, its just best left not talked about. There is a lot of "Biz" in pool, anyone who thinks otherwise just hasnt been around very long or been out and about. Like the Derby for example, I've been tossed off by a guy I put in the box there one time, big deal it happens(I learned a little something), the best situation is knowing about the "Biz" and getting rail bets down-easier said than done, information is great. But that not honest, but it is free $$$. what to do????

There is a fine line between a hustle and fraud, the net result is the same. Its just word games. Theother thread had a post about dumping a bar tender for $100 it was written in a blatent way about chopping up the bar tender, never chop up the house man! Get the house man on your team hire him and you'll get protection as well as action, unless the house man is double steering you. who to trust???



When anyone of us as people aquire money, someone lost it. (unless they are counterfitters). With all $$$ transactions there is gain and loss. You can justify your gain if your a barbarber and cut someones hair for $20. The barbarber gains $20, the customer lost $20. Fair deal. Thats in the service industry. If you trade merchandice for $$$ you are a merchant and every move is done with a profit motive, the buyer is the loser of the $$$ but gains the property. All this is nice and warm fuzzy, PC, idealistic facts.
Now I know I can trust my barbarber, phew I was getting nervious.

It gets henky when someone aquires $$$ and the other person gets nothing for it(perhaps a life lession). Look at the tragic death/murder of Mike last week, It appears that robbery was the motive. Or drug $$$, desperate people do desperate unthinkable things as in that case. That is the worst possible conduct anyone can commit. He robbed Mike of all he was and everything he was going to be. RIP Mike.

Down a notch from the most extreme circumstance as noted above, is figuring out how to extract $$$ from someone(or a business) and provide little or nothing in return. If you sell your car and take all the $$$ and go bet it on a hand of 21 and lose the casino just won your car and you got NOTHING in return. If someone steals your car your in the exact same spot. The only difference is one act was against your will, the other was your plan. One is illegal the other is legal, the results are the same. I'm confused:confused: where did my car go?

The perception of the method of aquireing $$$ is all i'm talking about. So when you match up with someone playing $100 sets any sane person thinks they have the best of it, both sides do thats why its called gambling. When the set is over and the score is 11-9 did the winner earn the $$$? what if it was 11-0? did he rob the guy? The results are the same. Its our perception that is different nothing else. If you win 11-0 and the guy calls tails for a 2nd set, do you say "you cant win I'll give you the 5 ball"? Or are you happy because you KNOW your going to win $100 more. What would you do in that spot? You do whats best for yourself. We all do. When its cold outside we come inside to a warm room. Its human nature. Thats too much to think about-i'd rather point fingers.


there is a very blurry line between hustling and fraud. And in the modern era on mincing up words trying to make our selves look PC and all that BS, it all boils down to the same result. Some will win others will lose-buyer beware. You have to have a con in this land of milk and honey or your just not going to survive, unless we become a communist nation.


those are my shallow thoughts on "Biz"


the end
Click to expand...

Tails on the floor for 10K...
 
tikkler said:
Eric, I have been discussing this theme with a bunch of people over the last year or so. I was saying that in everyday life you have to constantly mis trust anything anybody tells you, at first. And bringing in the old poolroom meantality, where everything is a scam or a hustle whether its over $1 or $1000.

I truly believe that the five years I spent in the pool room every day when I was a kid, taught me some very valuable life lessons. Such as.....
You will never be in the right place at the right time.
This deal is too good to be true.
I cant lose on this bet.
Etc...........

Taking that aproach as I got older was very helpfull to me in business, as i was allways on the lookout for the hustle. It is kind of humorous when you meet some people that never outgrew the old poolroom ways and are still living in that "who can I rip off next" mode.

For me personally, I have taken all the mistakes that I have seen people do and tried to not repeat the same. From my parents to teachers to a guy that dumped a game of straight pool for $5....LOL

I am not too sure how this fits in with your post.....but I hope it helps.
Click to expand...



I learned more about business not "Biz", but business hanging out in pool rooms than anywhere else. How to manage my deals, people etc. I took the knowlege of the streets(pool rooms) into the real busines world and its worked well in several ventures. Its like Paul Newman said "Im a student of human moves". thats the ticket.


The last 18 months have been the worst 18 months of my life as business is concerned, but I had the forsight to save enough $$$ to live to fight another day, So I'm ok, I dont like it but I'm ok and will be. Dont let the highs be to high or the lows be to low. Keep an even keel.


now that I have solved the worlds problems whats next????

LOL just kidding, I wanted to give my haters something to grab on to so they can hate me even more, I havent been feeding them much lately:wink::wink::grin-square:


I really should drive to Vegas right now but I'm lazy, and I think traffic is going to be bad tomarrow. GRRRRR


Best
eric
 
houmatroy said:
I put it on the lowest of poles on the pool totum pole....If somebody has enough faith in you to stake you in a match...You should respect that person..NOT treat him like a mark..it's one of the reasons i will only stake a select few these days..too bad there aren't stiffer penalties for the ones that practice such things...It's way too sad that it just goes with the territory attitude....If i found out for sure that I was dumped then i wouldn't just take it on the chin..I would deffinately let the dogs out....just like the thief that breaks into somebody's house & gets shot by the home owner then sometimes the thief gets what they deserve...JMHO
Click to expand...


Its the biggest action killer there is in pool, it hurts pool worse than poker has. And the less and less $$$ there is in pool for players the more chance there is for funny stuff to go on. Look at savers in tournments its getting rediclous now when I hear guys who have no shot at winning doing small savers for just their entry fee. Desperation for $$$ causes bad things to happen.

There is another side of the coin

Back in the good old days If a good player had a drug deealer stake horse that put him in action he would play hard for the drug dealer because those guys had cash and were ready to gamble. And would stick with you, alot of stake horses are 2 barrels and out nowdays, if your $$$ man is going to stick with you, you stick with him. I have a friend who travelled in those circles, once in a while when they hit a new town if the stake horse didnt know who his player was playing, the player might toss off his stake horse doing his player friend a favor, but that was a rare thing. this was before my time back in the 70's. When that happened you can be sure the next 3 or 4 games he made up for it. there was more loyalty back then. A good friend told about this on more than one ocassion. He has alot of great stories-he should write a book.


the internet, poker, peoples valuse, and other things changed all that up. Those days are gone forever.
 
There is a HUGE difference in hustling to get action, and flat out stealing. Cutting guys up/doing business is flat out theft. Plain and simple.
Deceiving a lesser player to get a money game is somewhat low, but at least there is something to be learned there. The iggy learns he made a bad bet, and he might get to watch some good play. Im not trying to be funny, thats just the way it is. A guy bet he could win.... he couldnt.... pay up and move on.
In the other thread there was out and out theft. The bartender wanted his money in action, and the 2 buddies took advantage of the situation. The particulars arent known as to whether he wanted his money back etc. But none the less, he was stolen from. Its no different than any other con job, except this one was spur of the moment and not preplanned.
Chuck
 
You have to have a con in this land of milk and honey or your just not going to survive, unless we become a communist nation.
Click to expand...

This is a rationalization made by people who con people.

pj
chgo
 
Scaramouche said:
I don't think I have ever heard this term before.

Could someone provide a definition or origin?

So I can add it to 'Biz':grin::grin::grin:
Click to expand...


I don't know about pool, but when I played poker an IGGY was someone who did something ignorant.

Larry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top