This forum

[JB Cases]

What an absurd idea! I guess its time to say goodbye to all the cuemakers I have learned about. Never would have heard about them otherwise. And I must mention I find it kind of funny that most everyone who has responded seems to have a stake in how this thing plays out. I'd probably play nice too if I wasnt sure I was gonna get cut. I mean, afterall, the guidelines are very clear!

I don't think that this is going to change the way things work in that regard. I am sure that people will still post cues from obscure cue makers and some cue makers will continue to post the cues that they have for sale.

Clearly there are those who use this marketplace as a big part of their income. That's natural as whenever you have a free-rent marketplace with a lot of traffic it attracts plenty of people willing to exploit that marketplace as long as they can. In front of my building about 500 people walk by every hour. At night it's like a mini-Wal Mart as the street vendors appear. They scatter when the police show up once in a while but they come right back an hour later. This is their profession, to use whatever free space is available as long as they can.

I sell about two-three cases a month on here depending on what we get done.

I have however gotten a lot more orders from people who appreciate a lot of the other topics on the main forum that I share my perspective of based on my own experience in the industry these past 20 years.

I feel that I contribute a lot more to the content and discussions beyond cue cases and that justifies the occasional guerrilla-marketing post.

I wouldn't mind paying a small commission on sales here. I have to pay the same to Ebay, Amazon, etc... if I list on their sites. Honestly it would not hurt the buyer and seller one bit to share a little of the revenue. I would like it to somehow function automatically. Maybe a listing fee that's collected upfront? If the item is x-dollars then the fee is a small percentage of the asking price like Ebay does it.

Let's all be real about this, AZ is where the hard core buyers are for billiard stuff. No other website comes close as far as I can tell. So all the people who sell here regularly know what it's worth to them and they should pay for it.

I doubt that THIS will happen but I'd love to see some way to have the WTS section show up NEXT TO the main forum. I do think that there are a lot of good stuff on offer at good prices that a lot of the people on the main forum never get to see because they don't go looking for it. If the WFS content were somehow able to be shown as a constant stream or somethng then it would be really cool. Now I am know I am out in left field but if this were coupled with a pay-per-post type deal then it could boost the revenue for AZ as well as for the sellers.

 

[Fatboy]

I'm Working On A Solution That Will Benefit Everyone...

Mike or Mr. Wilson,

I might have a solution that would work for everyone, I will think it through over the next couple days and connect with you on this, I need a bit of time(and its Christmas) to cover all the possibilities. It will be a big benefit to AZB, and ALL of its members from the addicts down to the once a month visitor.(I hope)

Drop me a email at : EP90210@hotmail.com


Merrry Christmas,

Fatboy<----------------Likes solving things like this in business.

 

[HarleyKR07]

I owe it to AZ and Joe (Bamacues) for getting me into an addiction but I have to sit in the middle of the fence on this one. I believe the original subject was someone was taking AZ products and putting it onto their business website. I can clearly see the problem with that and everyone else should too. Why sell something if you don't have it in your possession at the current time? However, this is a wanted/for sale section and if someone has something they are selling then they should be entitled to list it. Whether its a website link,ebay link or whatever other link there is, if you need to sell it then you should be allowed to post it. There are a few simple things that can be done about this....For Sale items should include a piece of paper that has the AZ handle of the user selling the item in the picture of the item they are selling. Plain and simple this prevents sellers that do not have the item in their possession from selling. Any business that has a website they promote off AZ should have to return the favor and promote a link to AZ on their site. Fair? If someone such as the banned user is using for sale pics on their website then that is out of AZ control...although the right thing was done to protect the AZ community from bad rep...you can get pics anywhere from anysite and do the same thing. You don't want to start charging for a service to post in the WFS section because then you start to get into legal binding stuff like ebay and it could ruin a great site. Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[taxi man]

its not just the pro sellers but users like vannahmom who just show up to az and only sell their stuff.

If the only posts a person has are ones where they are trying to sell something, then they should be charged some sort of fee. If they dont like it, then go to craigslist.

Who cares if their only selling their own stuff,as long as it's pool related it really shouldn't matter.I would expect a cuemaker to promote and sell his own cues,if he sold others that's his choice,but sounds completley logical he would sell his own.We can only control what we buy and sell,to worry about others is really no ones business but theirs.

 

[rackem]

No need to re-invent the wheel

I think some might be reading more into this than Mike really means.
I don't think that Mike's intention is to make the for sale section a money making operation for AZB. I don't believe he is looking to make money off our sales. I doubt he wants to be the Billiard ebay.
He just does not want anyone using the forum just for promotional purposes without paying for that advertising.
The person who was banned was posting lost leaders for sale on the forum and bumping them constanately just to draw people to his website.
It was not about selling the tip-pik he had posted and was making only a buck on.
He also was stealing pictures from AZB's trading partner and gave a very bad answer when called on it.
I once PMd him about his no club membership and he gave me a rather bad answer also.

I do feel that anyone who sells on the forum should be a club member.
IMO an NPR For Sale section has no place on this forum whatsoever.
By all means the bickering and name calling must stop.
AZB is the Best Billiard Forum because it is what it is.
Let us not try to make it what it is not.
When things get out of wack from time to time the powers to be just need to bring them back in check. I believe Mike has done that. Let's just see how it goes from here.

 

[teaz01]

I think some might be reading more into this than Mike really means.
I don't think that Mike's intention is to make the for sale section a money making operation for AZB. I don't believe he is looking to make money off our sales. I doubt he wants to be the Billiard ebay.
He just does not want anyone using the forum just for promotional purposes without paying for that advertising.
The person who was banned was posting lost leaders for sale on the forum and bumping them constanately just to draw people to his website.
It was not about selling the tip-pik he had posted and was making only a buck on.
He also was stealing pictures from AZB's trading partner and gave a very bad answer when called on it.
I once PMd him about his no club membership and he gave me a rather bad answer also.

I do feel that anyone who sells on the forum should be a club member.
IMO an NPR For Sale section has no place on this forum whatsoever.
By all means the bickering and name calling must stop.
AZB is the Best Billiard Forum because it is what it is.
Let us not try to make it what it is not.
When things get out of wack from time to time the powers to be just need to bring them back in check. I believe Mike has done that. Let's just see how it goes from here.

Hi,
No Public Restroom, National Public Radio, National Press Release, Nepalese Rupee, Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, Nice People Rock??? :grin:

 

[stikapos]

Hi Tim,
I don't think we should expect AZ Billiards to be involved in any buy, sell, or trade transactions. If AZ mandates something they become involved in a dispute. Especially considering the slighted party's perception is in most cases subjective. To mediate a deal gone south takes a lot of time and ultimately may find no resolution. AZ provides a good forum with a database to discern a persons reputation. It is up to the parties involved to realize an agreement that will protect and satisfy each. Know the seller.
Respectfully, Troy.

Shenanigans Troy. Your statements dont make much sense. Based on your comments, you sound like a politician spitting crap out of their mouth. Stick to common sense. If the worst issue is someone losing their sale for the cost of a return shipment, there is no issue. The purchasers right of return should be no less here than in regular trade. As I said, I have money to spend, but it will be a sad day in hell before I spend here again as I never have the same rights as I would in the retail community.
tim

 

[cornerstone]

Alot of folks seem to have missed the point.

**IF** your sole contribution to AZB is a bump or to step on another's sale to promote your own interests....then you might be who He's talking about.

If you are running a business and the bulk of your conversation is with regard to the business you are running and doing it all without contributing to the overhead Mike incurs........then you might be who He's talking about.

The main point of this forum is about Community...not Commerce.

we are behind you on all your decisions!
for sellers
1) be respectfull
2) not annoying
3) do not over bump "if it was going to sell it would have sold on the firs 2 bumps"
4) dont cut down somone or somthing selling. let them do there thing.
when all else fails refer to #1.

 

[teaz01]

Shenanigans Troy. Your statements dont make much sense. Based on your comments, you sound like a politician spitting crap out of their mouth. Stick to common sense. If the worst issue is someone losing their sale for the cost of a return shipment, there is no issue. The purchasers right of return should be no less here than in regular trade. As I said, I have money to spend, but it will be a sad day in hell before I spend here again as I never have the same rights as I would in the retail community.
tim

Hi Tim,
I agree that you should have the right to return something that is misrepresented or not to your expectations. I said that we should not expect AZ to mandate, or mediate an agreement between two private parties. As consumers we have the power to set the terms of a sale. If your dealing with someone who is deceitful there are institutions already in place to manage those situations effectively.
Respectfully, Troy.

 

[manwon]

Recently, some things going on in this forum have been brought to our attention and we are making strides to take care of these issues today.

The biggest issue is abuse of this forum by users who simply see this as a place to advertise their online business and everything that they sell. This forum was originally set up for forum users who have an item available that they want to sell. I don't have any problem with users who contribute to this forum, in the form or conversation, to advertise any pool related items that they have for sale or trade.

I do have a problem with folks who have an online business and just use the forum to advertise that business for free.

We have removed a number of these posts and this should be considered the warning for those posters to stop what they are doing.

There is one exception to this however. One user (Cuedaddy) was not only using this area to promote his online shop. He was also taking images from the AzB marketplace to populate his online shop. Including posting items that were exclusives to the AzB marketplace and saying he could deliver these items.

When contacted by our marketplace partner about these issues, his simple response was "sue me".

Not only is this behavior detestable, but I would certainly have concerns about buying from someone like this.

This user has been banned from the forum for life. No warning was given and no warning should be needed for something like this.

Mike

I think you are attacking the problem correctly, their are people who certainly do use this forum to support their business and many do not even buy a Club Membership. I completely understand the original idea for the for sale forum, it was designed to be a place where members could move billiards related items they no longer had any use for, or to trade for an item they could use. It was never designed for anyone to promote their business, that is what paying for advertisement on the site is for.

I am with you on this, and I am glad to see you tighten this up.

 

[cfrandy]

I think some might be reading more into this than Mike really means.
I don't think that Mike's intention is to make the for sale section a money making operation for AZB. I don't believe he is looking to make money off our sales. I doubt he wants to be the Billiard ebay.
He just does not want anyone using the forum just for promotional purposes without paying for that advertising.
The person who was banned was posting lost leaders for sale on the forum and bumping them constanately just to draw people to his website.
It was not about selling the tip-pik he had posted and was making only a buck on.
He also was stealing pictures from AZB's trading partner and gave a very bad answer when called on it.
I once PMd him about his no club membership and he gave me a rather bad answer also.

I do feel that anyone who sells on the forum should be a club member.
IMO an NPR For Sale section has no place on this forum whatsoever.
By all means the bickering and name calling must stop.
AZB is the Best Billiard Forum because it is what it is.
Let us not try to make it what it is not.
When things get out of wack from time to time the powers to be just need to bring them back in check. I believe Mike has done that. Let's just see how it goes from here.

Ditto! The people who benefit the most from this forum should contribute the most!

 

[Klink]

Shenanigans Troy. Your statements dont make much sense. Based on your comments, you sound like a politician spitting crap out of their mouth. Stick to common sense. If the worst issue is someone losing their sale for the cost of a return shipment, there is no issue. The purchasers right of return should be no less here than in regular trade. As I said, I have money to spend, but it will be a sad day in hell before I spend here again as I never have the same rights as I would in the retail community.
tim

If you are not ever going to buy anything here than why give your input on the subject?

 

[rackem]

Mike or Mr. Wilson,

I might have a solution that would work for everyone, I will think it through over the next couple days and connect with you on this, I need a bit of time(and its Christmas) to cover all the possibilities. It will be a big benefit to AZB, and ALL of its members from the addicts down to the once a month visitor.(I hope)

Drop me a email at : EP90210@hotmail.com


Merrry Christmas,

Fatboy<----------------Likes solving things like this in business.

Oh cool no need to post and bump anymore.
They are just going to put together a crew to telemarket the stuff for us.:killingme::rotflmao1:
JK :grin:Sorry Eric you left yourself open for that one. Couldn't resist.
I will wait to listen but I feel things will be fine as is. Merry Christmas.

 

[Fast Lenny]

IMO it might be time to make the classifieds like a Ebay but without all the BS fees, perhaps charge $.25 to list an item or something or if your a club member it is free for you to list X amount of listings. I think that would be fair and I have over 100 transactions on here and would not mind paying the fee, that would be roughly $25.00 for the thousands of dollars in stuff that I have sold on here.

I am sure they could implement a program so it would run smoothly and certainly would help to run AZ Billiards along with maybe 50% going to the Players Travel Fund. It would not be a ton of money but the benefits would be great not just for AZ Billiards, The Travel Fund but also members because we could have sections for cues, cases, tables, trades and also price ranges.

I have had plenty of times I had an extra $100 laying around and wanted to find something on here to blow it on but you cannot search by price. We could also have listings by dealers and by owner. It is just an idea but I think it could raise some capital for the site and players that AZB is trying to help.

 

[stikapos]

Hi Tim,
I agree that you should have the right to return something that is misrepresented or not to your expectations. I said that we should not expect AZ to mandate, or mediate an agreement between two private parties. As consumers we have the power to set the terms of a sale. If your dealing with someone who is deceitful there are institutions already in place to manage those situations effectively.
Respectfully, Troy.

I can't argue with the theory, but in practice, unless there are rules of practice, anything tends to go. And we all don't want to "out" someone , so I see right of return as the only way to preserve good transactions. And if you reaaaaaalllly wanted a particular cue.......well, you know how that can go.

As far as the rest of it goes, why not limit the number of cues/cases by a member per year (24 ?) and the number of bumps to whatever makes sense (one every other day ?).

 

[JB Cases]

Shenanigans Troy. Your statements dont make much sense. Based on your comments, you sound like a politician spitting crap out of their mouth. Stick to common sense. If the worst issue is someone losing their sale for the cost of a return shipment, there is no issue. The purchasers right of return should be no less here than in regular trade. As I said, I have money to spend, but it will be a sad day in hell before I spend here again as I never have the same rights as I would in the retail community.
tim

You do have the same rights as in any other business transaction. All transactions in the retail world are between private entities and laws govern those transactions. However they are civil matters and if one party does not follow the law then the offended party has the right of suit to attempt to get redress.

The fact that other market places which charge for listings give the buyer more protection has nothing to do with the rights under the law. That is merely a service that they perform in order to entice more buyers to the marketplace. In the case of EBAY and Paypal there are plenty of horror stories on the part of both buyers and sellers how neither got proper satisfaction.

AZ should not be involved in the private transactions here. It imposes liabilities on them that they are not equipped to deal with and which are not in proportion to the revenue that they could gain from it.

When you transact here you should take all the same precautions that you would when purchase from anyone else anywhere else. The nature of transacting remotely leads to misrepresentation, fraud, and miscommunication a lot of the time.

This board is a bulletin board. Some of the sellers have business licenses and some don't. Know who you are dealing with and ask for invoices with their full name, a copy of the driver's license, address etc.... if you want someone to go after if things go wrong.

Honest sellers will have no problem providing these things although they may be annoyed and might choose not to deal with someone asking.

The best protection is due diligence.

 

[Fatboy]

You do have the same rights as in any other business transaction. All transactions in the retail world are between private entities and laws govern those transactions. However they are civil matters and if one party does not follow the law then the offended party has the right of suit to attempt to get redress.

The fact that other market places which charge for listings give the buyer more protection has nothing to do with the rights under the law. That is merely a service that they perform in order to entice more buyers to the marketplace. In the case of EBAY and Paypal there are plenty of horror stories on the part of both buyers and sellers how neither got proper satisfaction.

AZ should not be involved in the private transactions here. It imposes liabilities on them that they are not equipped to deal with and which are not in proportion to the revenue that they could gain from it.

When you transact here you should take all the same precautions that you would when purchase from anyone else anywhere else. The nature of transacting remotely leads to misrepresentation, fraud, and miscommunication a lot of the time.

This board is a bulletin board. Some of the sellers have business licenses and some don't. Know who you are dealing with and ask for invoices with their full name, a copy of the driver's license, address etc.... if you want someone to go after if things go wrong.

Honest sellers will have no problem providing these things although they may be annoyed and might choose not to deal with someone asking.

The best protection is due diligence.

The Laws you speak of are called UCC laws, which stands for Uniform Commercial Codes,

I only read your first paragraph than made this post, I have no idea whats gong on in this thread,

anyways Merry Christmas,

Eric

PS I have a pic of a case that will bring back some memories for you, I will email it to you this week one day, best regards

 

[Guerra Cues]

I do sell stuff one here and post on all other areas of AZ Billiards.
I think that anybody that sells on AZ should have the Club Membership, PERIOD!, I mean everybody that sells on here.
The server farm where AZ has their servers and bandwidth is not cheap at all. Believe me, that is what I do for a living...
If we could all contribute we will be enhancing the services of AZ and help them pay their bills.
I see quite a few guys making money on AZ who are not Club Members and they police and sell in the forum like they were the Gods of AZ. The Club Membership should apply to the Raffle section as well.

 

[hangemhigh]

I think it all boils down to how much you appreciate, and are thankful for, AZ Billiards and what it does for you.

Cue Makers

Cue Sellers

Case makers

People who regularly acquire Billiard related items for sale here

Instructors who charge for their time, and or knowledge (whether by private instruction or sales of instructional videos)

Streamers who count on Forum members for an ad revenue base and related paraphernalia sales

and anyone else who participates in the AZ marketplace for profit

All of you depend on AZ for revenue, and AZ does not fail you.

I challenge all of those mentioned above to support AZ. Don't know what I am talking about? Here is a model I followed last year, and can easily be adopted by each and every one of you.

I donated 3 cues to the AZ Pro Fund, the area where the owners of our Forum asked for help. Those cues generated $1200 in cold, hard, cash for the Forum. One cue has yet to be sold, but when it does, it will add another $600 to the fund. Just think of the possibilities for our Forum if every one of us successful sellers did the same. The new year is just in front of us, make a commitment to give back in the same generous way that our Forum has given to you.

 

[sureman183]

Sure man cues

just having a new site built & maybe being a little over excited of the fact, i realise i'm probably guilty of bumping morn & eve [ suggested by a friend] i want to say, i will stay in the background as i always have, will not post only on occasion. i've seen many, that don't have a site, or never have rented a booth at a major tournament, & sell much more than the dealers. for this reason i'm no longer going to have a booth at U S open, DCC, or Valley Forge. what bothers me most on az, is the cat fights that go on uncontroled. my apologies to Mike, i don't want to abuse this forum. my father taught me some valuable lessons in life. don't lie, cheat or steal, be honest & most of all was integrety. thanks to my dad, who didn't just say it, he lived it....... regards don