Tribute cues....

trustyrusty

trustyrusty

I'm better with a wedge!
Silver Member
Recently I've seen a couple of "tribute" cues for sale that I REALLY like the looks of (to be specific, they are TAD tributes by Carmeli). I was wondering what most folks thought of this practice? I have seen numerous makers make tributes to Southwest, Tad, Szams, Bushkas, etc. I can understand having your favorite cuemaker make you a cue in a style that you want, but is it looked down upon by others when a cuemaker pumps out a number of "tributes" to sell without them being custom ordered? I'm not implying in anyway that said makers are trying to pass them off as original, but there are real Southwests out there to buy, and even a few new TADs out there (bama has a nice one in the wanted/for sale section right now). Just wondering about others thoughts on this???
 
i don't see a problem with that, so as long that it is very clear on the cue that it is a copy or tribute. I know of one cue maker that made quite a bit of Balabuska knock offs and sold them as authentic, a real piece of work that guy...but he's not with the living anymore so thats that i guess.
 
trustyrusty said:
Recently I've seen a couple of "tribute" cues for sale that I REALLY like the looks of (to be specific, they are TAD tributes by Carmeli). I was wondering what most folks thought of this practice? I have seen numerous makers make tributes to Southwest, Tad, Szams, Bushkas, etc. I can understand having your favorite cuemaker make you a cue in a style that you want, but is it looked down upon by others when a cuemaker pumps out a number of "tributes" to sell without them being custom ordered? I'm not implying in anyway that said makers are trying to pass them off as original, but there are real Southwests out there to buy, and even a few new TADs out there (bama has a nice one in the wanted/for sale section right now). Just wondering about others thoughts on this???
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I think it's a bad idea to make "tributes" of cues that are still being made and available. It makes no sense to me and I would think it would raise the ire of the original maker.

Chris
 
Tribute cues are fine as long as the cuemaker only make one of them and making it for the right reasons. Copying someone elses style and making several to sell is not cool
 
Im on the fence on this one....if the cuemaker that is being copied is a better cuemaker...I dont see the harm...but if the one doing the tribute puts out a nicer, better hitting cue....then the maker that is being copied has something to worry about....

Thing is, there isnt enough cuemakers to saturate the market right now...when it gets to the point that a cuemaker is having to strum up buisiness, then I would see it being a huge problem.

But thats just me.

I guess kinda like if Eddie Wheat made a Searing Tribute and Eddies work was constantly better than Dennis' work...then Dennis would have to start worrying....but since this isnt the case, and its not gonna hurt Dennis if Eddie made a Searing tribute cue, as long as its not being sold as a Searing, or it cant be mistaken for a Searing...I see no harm...again...thats just me
 
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Thanks for the opinions so far...I too am a bit unsure about the whole thing.

Again, I'm not saying that a cuemaker is trying to pass off their work as anothers. But, like my example, a plain TAD cue (all one wood, be it birdseye, tulipwood, or whatever), with a linen wrap, and the famous large decorative ring above the large delrin buttcap....should that style be exclusive to TAD?
 
trustyrusty said:
Thanks for the opinions so far...I too am a bit unsure about the whole thing.

Again, I'm not saying that a cuemaker is trying to pass off their work as anothers. But, like my example, a plain TAD cue (all one wood, be it birdseye, tulipwood, or whatever), with a linen wrap, and the famous large decorative ring above the large delrin buttcap....should that style be exclusive to TAD?
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I think it does hurt the originality of the cue. One reason for buying a custom cue is to have something unique. If everyone in the room has a tribute player to your cue. That would makes it seem common even though it really isn't.
 
Tribute Cues

There's nothing wrong with building Szamboti style cues or Bushka style, Rambow, but I don't care for the term "tribute cue", kind of corny.

If the design is copied from a living cuemaker he should get some recognition and even contacted to make sure he's cool with it.
It's a form of flattery to a point, as long as people don't think it's his design...JMO
 
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DrOnePocket said:
Tribute cues are fine as long as the cuemaker only make one of them and making it for the right reasons. Copying someone elses style and making several to sell is not cool
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But almost all cues are knockoffs.... every cue that has points, veneers, diamond inlays, bushka rings, hoppe rings etc. etc.....

I can count on one hand cue makers that have their own unique designs.
 
You mean like a composer paying tribute to the Beatles by composing a beatle-like song, or an artist painting a tribute painting in the style of another artist?

Tribute is a fancy name for copy. I think one determining factor is how the cue is marketed and the price at which it is sold. I don't see too much of a problem if the cue is stated to be a copy cue. OTOH, if said cue is sold at a price well above the copying cuemaker's normal price, then it is clear he is trying to make money off the another cuemaker's name.
 
trustyrusty said:
Recently I've seen a couple of "tribute" cues for sale that I REALLY like the looks of (to be specific, they are TAD tributes by Carmeli). I was wondering what most folks thought of this practice? I have seen numerous makers make tributes to Southwest, Tad, Szams, Bushkas, etc. I can understand having your favorite cuemaker make you a cue in a style that you want, but is it looked down upon by others when a cuemaker pumps out a number of "tributes" to sell without them being custom ordered? I'm not implying in anyway that said makers are trying to pass them off as original, but there are real Southwests out there to buy, and even a few new TADs out there (bama has a nice one in the wanted/for sale section right now). Just wondering about others thoughts on this???
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I know that some people have a problem with cues that are built after a certain style. The thing is, most cuemakers and players have a style that they are attracted to for either aesthetics or playing style. Styles are going to be copied. If you're building or having a cue built, you're gonna do what you feel is best to make that cue attractive and playable. I know that Richard Harris tortured central ky's tournaments and gamblers for several years prior to building cues. During that time, all I remember him using was a southwest cue. I don't think it's an accident that many of Richards cues resemble a southwest. I'm not saying that Richard is building copycat cues, I'm saying that he took what he liked in a cue and incorporated it into his own work.
 
ftgokie said:
Im on the fence on this one....if the cuemaker that is being copied is a better cuemaker...I dont see the harm...but if the one doing the tribute puts out a nicer, better hitting cue....then the maker that is being copied has something to worry about....

Thing is, there isnt enough cuemakers to saturate the market right now...when it gets to the point that a cuemaker is having to strum up buisiness, then I would see it being a huge problem.

But thats just me.

I guess kinda like if Eddie Wheat made a Searing Tribute and Eddies work was constantly better than Dennis' work...then Dennis would have to start worrying....but since this isnt the case, and its not gonna hurt Dennis if Eddie made a Searing tribute cue, as long as its not being sold as a Searing, or it cant be mistaken for a Searing...I see no harm...again...thats just me
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I couldn't disagree more with several points you make.

#1 - If the builder being copied is better, then the "tributer" is riding on the original's design/build/play talents. And it can cheapen the value of that talent in the marketplace.

#2 - There are tons of cue builders now and the market is saturated.

#3 - What if down the road, the Searing "tribute" cue gets "mistaken" for a real Searing. How does that affect Dennis' legacy and that of his cues? Negatively.

Why not take the time to come up with your own unique designs?

Scott
 
TATE said:
I think it's a bad idea to make "tributes" of cues that are still being made and available. It makes no sense to me and I would think it would raise the ire of the original maker.

Chris
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Chris

I've always found that words that don't quite fit, like "tribute", are generally attempting to mask or soften the reality.

Tribute equals copy.

Cues are 2 parts that go hand-9n-hand, playability and design. If you are a cue maker and can't be original in your design, well then you are really only 1/2 a maker.

Kevin
 
kvinbrwr said:
Chris

I've always found that words that don't quite fit, like "tribute", are generally attempting to mask or soften the reality.

Tribute equals copy.

Cues are 2 parts that go hand-9n-hand, playability and design. If you are a cue maker and can't be original in your design, well then you are really only 1/2 a maker.

Kevin
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In this case, I agree. This is the cue in question:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=138879&highlight=carmeli+tribute

I don't get the idea of copying a Tad like this. Carmeli is a fine cue maker and has a lot of his own unique stuff. Corey Harper's cue is really outstanding.

Anyway. I don't understand why he would copy a Tad that is basically still available. It's not really a tribute - Fred is going to be making the classic Tad for many years to come.

Whatever, it was probably a one time thing.

Chris
 
TATE said:
In this case, I agree. This is the cue in question:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=138879&highlight=carmeli+tribute

I don't get the idea of copying a Tad like this. Carmeli is a fine cue maker and has a lot of his own unique stuff. Corey Harper's cue is really outstanding.

Anyway. I don't understand why he would copy a Tad that is basically still available. It's not really a tribute - Fred is going to be making the classic Tad for many years to come.

Whatever, it was probably a one time thing.

Chris
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the one I like has a different wood, but same basic design - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=138774&highlight=tribute

I don't want to knock the seller's sale of an obviously beautiful cue....I still think it is well worth the price. I am just torn on the whole "tribute" part is all.
 
skor said:
But almost all cues are knockoffs.... every cue that has points, veneers, diamond inlays, bushka rings, hoppe rings etc. etc.....

I can count on one hand cue makers that have their own unique designs.
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This cue is made with Elk Antler. Doubt you'll ever see another like it;

ResizeofM0170H.jpg


As far as "tribute" or copying someones cue design, unless there is a patent involved, I would think it would be hard to stop. Does that mean it's alright? Hardly. I remember when Harley tryed to patent their sound after the Japanese bike builders started building V twins. Didn't fly.

I don't think the value of a BB is gonna drop because someone in china starts turning out "BB like" cues. They are what they are. Ask Rolex about copies. They don't play around.
 
I realize that many people like that 'ol' school' look in their cues...and that is all well and good. When you start copying a well known maker's designs, that is not a 'tribute'...it is a copy, and quite frankly, shows a lack of imagination. There are so many things that can be done with inlays to make them truly unique. I can think of one peacock cue that was really quite special because of the way the peacock inlays were used. The cue still had an 'ol' school' feel to the overall design.

I can also think of a cue where BB inlays were used. It was quite apparent to those who know, that the inlays were just about as identical as could be to those found in a BB cue...albeit, not quite as extensive as Tony's work.

I can also remember a recently featured cue that was about as close to a rip-off of Thomas Wayne's design as one can get. Actually, I have seen a couple of cues that were direct rip-offs of TW's designs. I have seen some of McWorter's stuff copied too. It just isn't right and qualifies as design theft, no matter how you choose to slice it.

SW's design is probably the most commonly 'used' design in the industry today. Truth be told, if I want a cue that looks like a SW, then I am gonna just save my pennies and buy a SW.

BTW....it is not always the maker who is showing a lack of imagination...the customer has some culpability here as well, if they are asking the maker to make such a cue for them. At that point, it is up to the maker to tell the customer that while they can, they would really rather not, and why...or at the very least offer up some options that will make the cue more unique. IMHO...just changing the ring work does not disqualify a cue as a copy.

Lisa ======>finds noodling over design elements both challenging and rewarding.
 
trustyrusty said:
the one I like has a different wood, but same basic design - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=138774&highlight=tribute

I don't want to knock the seller's sale of an obviously beautiful cue....I still think it is well worth the price. I am just torn on the whole "tribute" part is all.
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That is a good looking cue. I like it.

So he could change a few things - it still doesn't really make sense to me copying Tad's overall design. I'm just a little puzzled. Maybe he cleared it with the Tad's.

Chris
 
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