Scott Frost vs The So Called One Pocket Greats

Your post got me interested, so I watched the Crane run from 1966 and the video of the 2009 world championship finals between Immonen and Cohen, won by Cohen 200 - 181. I only looked at the first 150 balls from Immonen and Cohen to compare to Crane's 150.

Crane pocketed eleven balls up table, mostly as a result of two racks where he broke the balls open from behind the rack. He let the cue ball get up table only one time on a break shot.

Immonen pocketed thirteen balls up table and had one behind the rack break shot but sent the cue ball up table four times on break shots, one of which was costly because he missed the next shot and ended a run.

Cohen pocketed nineteen balls up table due to five behind the rack break shots and he sent the cue ball up table twice on a break shot. Cohen missed on one of his behind the rack break shots and ended a run. Cohen seems to have more of an old time game, perhaps due to his mentoring from DiLiberto.


Based upon this I would say the number of balls pocketed up table are directly related to the number of behind the rack break shots which tend to drive more balls up table, but it is still mostly a four pocket game.

On the modern equipment it seems like the balls break open easier and it seems like some of today's players aren't bothered by sending the cue ball up table on break shots. I think back in 1966 you risked getting called before the board to explain your actions if you sent the cue ball up table four times like Immonen did.

You're probably sorry you asked, but there it is.

Maybe the nap cloth isn't that slow then... Idk. I wonder if there is a table around set up exactly like they were 40 years ago.
 
Lol jesus I'm not putting anyone down. If players 50 years from now play 5 balls better in one pocket than todays players... I think it should be known. I played grady one pocket 6 or 7 years ago in one pocket and I won. 6 or 7 years ago frost (the ways he plays now) wouldve given me 11-7 and hijacked me!

Look my point is (and I'm 100% convinced of it also) that todays players play alot better, and I'd be surprised if players 50 years from now won't play better than todays also.

Also tournaments were so much easier to win back in the day if you were really good. Earl stricland even told me how he wishes we could play on 10 footers because everybody makes great shots now.

I think I'll use your line of thinking and say something there is no way I can prove, but it just feels good saying it:

If you, Donny, played the Tommy Sanders of 1980, he would have smoked you...ALL DAY LONG. You are the second best pool playing car dealer in history.
 
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Maybe the nap cloth isn't that slow then... Idk. I wonder if there is a table around set up exactly like they were 40 years ago.

Watch the Crane run, it is available on youtube. I think you will see the difference.
 
I don't care about all that.

Honestly, if you can watch that video and not see the mad talent those two players have. If you know one of those guys ran an 11 pack for what he was told would be 1 million dollars.

You know what they say, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.
 
I think I'll use your line of thinking and say something there is no way I can prove, but it just feels good saying it:

If you, Donny, played the Tommy Sanders of 1980, he would have smoked you...ALL DAY LONG. You are the second best pool playing car dealer in history.

donny would rob him
 
I think I'll use your line of thinking and say something there is no way I can prove, but it just feels good saying it:

If you, Donny, played the Tommy Sanders of 1980, he would have smoked you...ALL DAY LONG. You are the second best pool playing car dealer in history.


Lol I'll tell em. Well, first off if 1980 was in his prime that would be unfortunate for him considering that was before efren and the wise kicking. So he couldn't kick like me which over a long set he'd have no chance of winning.

Secondly he wouldn't be able to break like me no matter who's racking.

So if you add these two things up and throw them into a 15 ahead set between us I'd say you have a better chance of waking up tomorrow and the sun not being there.
 
Honestly, if you can watch that video and not see the mad talent those two players have. If you know one of those guys ran an 11 pack for what he was told would be 1 million dollars.

You know what they say, you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

I haven't watched it yet but I will soon.
 
Its more due to a lack of clarity in your post.



I will grant that you might have meant that, but the brevity that you used will lead people to a different understanding of what your point actually was.

But, I will say again, if we are going on draw shots "ect" aka the entire shooting package, making those key shots. Earl 15 years ago was doing it better then anyone today. The guy ran a bloody 11 pack for what he thought would be 1 million dollars, that is high offense under an insane amount of pressure. Noone has reached his level of a powerful stroke and accuracy that he had. And the other guy in this video, he does not suck either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4XlfiAa-lo

That said, Mika has nowhere near the powerful stroke that SVB has, and yet he has been a heck of alot more successful on the tournament trail of late. Dennie Orcullo has nowhere near the power of SVB in moving the ball, but he plays far more accurate cueball placement and angles then SVB. Those power shots are only part of a very big package of required skill sets. Mosconi could draw the ball, could be power stroke it like Earl? Probably not, but he was probably a more accurate potter because he was not playing those huge stroke shots and he probably played alot better angle based shape then anyone on the planet given the particular game he dominated.

Moving the ball is not the only thing, you know that better then anyone Donny. You know full well you don't shoot as well as SVB yet you have a chance to beat him in a race to 100 in 9-ball rack your own because SVB's powerful stroke is NOT the only factor in play. You are the perfect example of how different skill sets in pool come into play and give guys a chance to win.

Lmao @ different set of skills. Watch the match closely and see if Shane broke good also. Other factors like if he didn't make a ball did I have a shot, or if I made a ball on the break and left myself a hard shot that I shouldn't shoot at. Not many people understand certain things about pool... and I don't know why.
 
Lmao @ different set of skills. Watch the match closely and see if Shane broke good also. Other factors like if he didn't make a ball did I have a shot, or if I made a ball on the break and left myself a hard shot that I shouldn't shoot at. Not many people understand certain things about pool... and I don't know why.

One reason why one pocket is a better game than 9/10 ball...you don't hear "the balls didn't let me win" as much.
 
Lmao @ different set of skills. Watch the match closely and see if Shane broke good also. Other factors like if he didn't make a ball did I have a shot, or if I made a ball on the break and left myself a hard shot that I shouldn't shoot at. Not many people understand certain things about pool... and I don't know why.

One thing that has not changed through the years. Pool is still a game of skill, percentages, shot choice and luck. Those will never change. Only the names involved.

Lyn
 
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One thing that has not changed through the years is that pool is an EGO based sport. As anyone reading this thread can see. LOL
 
I'll put this into some perspective for you guys and will not use pool terms. I was talking to my Dad about this stuff and he likes to use basketball analogies.

You guys all remember when Allen Iverson crossed Michael Jordan over and made that mid range jumper. AI arrived that day, that was his official coming out party and he was/"is" a star. Now what a lot of people fail to remember about that game is that Jordan had 35 points and his team won the game.

Fast forward 12 years or so can you even compare the careers of MJ and AI? Fine maybe argue about MJ and Kobe or MJ and Lebron? The fact is you always will argue about MJ when it comes to guards, Oscar Robertson, Kareem, and Wilt when it comes to Forwards/Centers.

The legends are the legends for a reason, they did it over a very long period of time. Hard work and dedication make you a legend if you have the talent. All this he is a "gambler" type stuff is crap, a true champion doesn't want to lose ever. It's hard to be the greatest of all time or one of the greats so if you make the conversation that should say enough.

That's my 2 cents.
 
Lol jesus I'm not putting anyone down. If players 50 years from now play 5 balls better in one pocket than todays players... I think it should be known. I played grady one pocket 6 or 7 years ago in one pocket and I won. 6 or 7 years ago frost (the ways he plays now) wouldve given me 11-7 and hijacked me!

Look my point is (and I'm 100% convinced of it also) that todays players play alot better, and I'd be surprised if players 50 years from now won't play better than todays also.

Also tournaments were so much easier to win back in the day if you were really good. Earl stricland even told me how he wishes we could play on 10 footers because everybody makes great shots now.

Donny, I agree that as a masses players today play better than players 20 years ago, thats why it's more difficult to win tournaments. There are very few gimme matches today in comparison to 20 years ago, where you often drew players that had NO chance. But the top plyers today would of had all they wanted playing Reyes, Sigel, Hall, Strickland, Varner, and Archer. Matter of fact there may not be 6 players today the equal of those guys.:sorry:l
 
Tap Tap. Every once in a while Lou and I agree. This is one of those times. :wink:
A comment overheard at one of his exhibitions after he ran something like 131 and out, "He isn't that good. He never had to make a hard shot." I wanted to say, "HELLO, his position play was brilliant, that's why."


Well, as Smorg might have said, "Now one of us will have to go kill themselves."

Lou Figueroa
:-)
 
The legends are the legends for a reason, they did it over a very long period of time. Hard work and dedication make you a legend if you have the talent. All this he is a "gambler" type stuff is crap, a true champion doesn't want to lose ever. It's hard to be the greatest of all time or one of the greats so if you make the conversation that should say enough.

That's my 2 cents.
Might be tough for some of those "true" champions to win tournaments if they are up until the sun rises gambling for more money then the tournament pays for winning it.
 
Might be tough for some of those "true" champions to win tournaments if they are up until the sun rises gambling for more money then the tournament pays for winning it.

Sounds like you're talking about Keith. :rolleyes:
When I could keep him off the crap tables and out of the poolroom/bar he was a threat to win any event he played in. Unfortunately that was not always the case.
 
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