Saving The Valley Bar Box

[poolplayer2093]

I know a lot of players don’t like the Valley bar box for many reasons. Some just don’t like 7’ tables period. But the #1 reason I hear is that they have big pockets, bad rails, and slow cloth. Now I’m not saying a Valley can be made into a Diamond Smart table with pro cut pockets, but it can be made to play pretty damn close to one for as little as $200-$300.

There are probably hundreds of thousands of these tables in the US and other countries. I believe if Valley table owners when it was time to change cloth would put one of the faster clothes on, get a set of Ridgeback rails (angles are cut different), and have the pockets tightened to 4 ½” that players would be surprised how close to a Diamond it plays. One other thing to check is the 8 bolts (2 each) under the corner castings. Most of the older tables will be found to have at least 1 or 2 bolts loose or some missing all together. Tightening these takes a lot of the Valley clunk out of the rails. With the Ridgeback rails there is no more clunk. Johnnyt

i dig the way valley BB's play. i think i'd like 'em a lot more if they tightened up the pockets though. i think with deeper slate and 4" pockets they'd play jam up. i don't mind slower cloth. i think someone should have to have some sort of stroke to move the CB around the table.

 

[Dartman]

I don't get the point here. Nine foot tables are advertised as 9' and are only 108". Same with all 7' and 8' tables. The playing surface is smaller than 7,8,9'. Johnnyt

Playing area is always smaller then the stated table size.
What you may not know is Valley also made 6', 6.25' and 6.5' tables.
Easiest way to determine table size is to measure the outside length of the table.
ie. 93" = Valley 93 = 7' table
Valley 78 - 6'
Valley 85 - 6.25'
Valley 88 - 6.5'
Valley 101 - 8'
Valley 108 - 9'

 

[Neil]

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[sfleinen]

Where are you measuring from? I just measured mine. Here's what I have-

outside edge of box to outside edge-(what opening size to fit box through) 92 1/2 x 52 1/2
nose of rail to nose of rail- (actual playing surface) 79 5/8 x 39 1/2.

Neil:

Actually (and unfortunately), some vendors consider the cushions themselves "part of the playing surface." Really, the measurement needs to start from the beginning of the rubber cushion next to the wooden rail it bonds to, going across the table to the same point on the opposite side. (This measurement does *NOT* include any shims you may have added, by the way, since shims actually reduce the playing surface size by pushing the rubber cushions deeper into what was previously playable surface area!)

You might see some vendors advertising a 9-footer as "108 inches x 54 inches" (this measurement includes the rubber cushions, no shims), and other vendors advertise their 9-footers as "100 inches x 50 inches" (this is usually nose-of-rubber-cushion to nose-of-rubber-cushion).

Feh, standards; dontcha just love 'em? :embarrassed2:

-Sean

 

[Neil]

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[master9baller]

Table sizes

Most valleys that players are familiar with are 6.5 footers. They are 3.25 feet wide, 39 inches minus the cushions equals about 37 inches wide playing surface (some go closer to 37.25 inches wide). This playing surface is doubled for the length, so 74-74.5 inches.

The new valley 7 footers have a 40 x 80 inch playing surface just like the Diamonds. So 3 inches wider and 6 inches longer. That's 462 square inches more space, just over 3.2 square feet. The total playing surace of a 6.5 foot table is 2,738 square inches, the 7 footer is 3,200 square inches. About 15% bigger. The size difference between the 2 table sizes is readily apparent in 8 ball, not so much in 9 ball or 10 ball.

The new Valley 7 footers play much differently than the 6.5 footers. Rails have alot more spring and they are covered with a cheap worsted cloth that palys well, but wears or quickly.

 

[Dartman]

Where are you measuring from? I just measured mine. Here's what I have-

outside edge of box to outside edge-(what opening size to fit box through) 92 1/2 x 52 1/2
nose of rail to nose of rail- (actual playing surface) 79 5/8 x 39 1/2.

The proper specs for a 7' valley table are 93" long (outside end to outside end) with a playing
area (cushion nose to cushion nose) of 39" X 78"

 

[Johnnyt]

The proper specs for a 7' valley table are 93" long (outside end to outside end) with a playing
area (cushion nose to cushion nose) of 39" X 78"

Thank God that's my table specs. For awhile there I thought I had a knockoff Valley. Johnnyt

 

[ShootingArts]

mostly sevens, some eights, very few sixes

Down here we had mostly seven foot Valleys, a few eight foot ones, and a very few six foot ones were tried. The six foot ones didn't go over well at all.

We still have plenty of seven foot barboxes and some of our biggest tournaments and plenty of gambling is on the barboxes. This begs the question, does the barbox need saving? When you true everything up and install decent cloth and decent matched cushions that the barbox was designed for you have made the barbox play as it was designed to play.

When you trick it out too much it becomes neither fish nor fowl. Practicing on it leaves you not in tune to play on a barbox or a nine foot table. If you are going to only play at home it doesn't really matter how your table plays, you can learn to play your table. If you are going to spend most of your competitive time on other tables then it makes sense to have your table set up as closely as possible to the tables you compete on. Maybe a little tighter pockets but not vastly tighter because that will change your playing style, often subtly without you realizing it. If you enlarge the openings of the side pockets then when you play on standard barboxes you will be hitting the points of the pockets when you bank into the side if you aren't careful.

If you compete on nine footers and only have room for a seven foot table it makes some sense to convert it into a miniature nine foot table. If you compete on a barbox it may be more productive to practice on a table set up as a standard barbox and tune with whatever cue ball you will compete with even if it is a cue ball you don't like best. In my part of the world the barbox is alive and well and looks like it will be here long after the nine footers are gone the way of the ten footers. Two new pool halls opened up recently in nearby towns. Both put in eight foot tables. Since the two halls aren't connected it looks like a trend. Another hall has over a dozen eight foot tables and one nine footer. Yet another place has seven seven foot tables and one nine foot table. All of these places have opened in the last few years in this general area. I don't like this trend but I'm still a dinosaur that would rather play pool on a five by ten with cloth deeper than the greens on a putt putt golf course.

I'm playing with some ideas right now and they are primarily geared towards seven foot tables, barboxes although the ideas work equally well on the seven foot Diamonds which I agree are in a class all by themselves as commercial small tables. I don't like it but I do believe the signs are on the wall.

Hu

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Diamond states the dimension of their 7' smart table as 80" X 40".

 

[DelaWho???]

Diamond states the dimension of their 7' smart table as 80" X 40".

40 x 80 is the actual playing surface. Around here the valley's are 38 x 76 for playing surface unless you have an 8' valley which has a playing surface of 42 x 84

The diamond box is right in between the 2. I refer to it as an oversized bar box.

 

[KRJ]

I know a lot of players don’t like the Valley bar box for many reasons. Some just don’t like 7’ tables period. But the #1 reason I hear is that they have big pockets, bad rails, and slow cloth. Now I’m not saying a Valley can be made into a Diamond Smart table with pro cut pockets, but it can be made to play pretty damn close to one for as little as $200-$300.

There are probably hundreds of thousands of these tables in the US and other countries. I believe if Valley table owners when it was time to change cloth would put one of the faster clothes on, get a set of Ridgeback rails (angles are cut different), and have the pockets tightened to 4 ½” that players would be surprised how close to a Diamond it plays. One other thing to check is the 8 bolts (2 each) under the corner castings. Most of the older tables will be found to have at least 1 or 2 bolts loose or some missing all together. Tightening these takes a lot of the Valley clunk out of the rails. With the Ridgeback rails there is no more clunk. Johnnyt

Thanks for the tips. I almost bought a 7 ft Diamond (used) to go next to my 9 ft Brunswick in my basement. But found out you can't get a 7 ft diamond down stairs as it weights in at 1000 lbs, and the only way is to buy a new Diamond and get a three piece slate. So, I think I"m going to buy a used valley and spruce her up to play a little faster because lots or tourney are using Diamonds. Hey, the Diamond is a quality table, but geez, I just can't believe how fast the cushions are on them. A close to rail touch shot, and I"m leaving the cue ball out in the middle of the table or worse, locked up. I like the Simonis, but the rails are crazy. I also like that on a Diamond (similar to a Gabriele) that pockets are flush and you will not scratch you cue because the Valley has they big piece of hunking metal on each corner. Any way to fix that part of the Valley before I make my purchase?? Also, which is the best model valley to buy??

 

[mreightball]

Hello Chcago:
If your looking for a great playing 7' that will fit in we will sell you this model floor model we have that doesn't have the metal corners for a great price (when I say great price I mean it. Don't pay attention to price on the web site) email me mr8ball@comcast.net for more info if interested. Below is where you can see table.

http://www.abctables.com/usa115.htm

Thanks
Ron

 

[david(tx)]

Most valleys that players are familiar with are 6.5 footers. They are 3.25 feet wide, 39 inches minus the cushions equals about 37 inches wide playing surface (some go closer to 37.25 inches wide). This playing surface is doubled for the length, so 74-74.5 inches.

The new valley 7 footers have a 40 x 80 inch playing surface just like the Diamonds. So 3 inches wider and 6 inches longer. That's 462 square inches more space, just over 3.2 square feet. The total playing surace of a 6.5 foot table is 2,738 square inches, the 7 footer is 3,200 square inches. About 15% bigger. The size difference between the 2 table sizes is readily apparent in 8 ball, not so much in 9 ball or 10 ball.

The new Valley 7 footers play much differently than the 6.5 footers. Rails have alot more spring and they are covered with a cheap worsted cloth that palys well, but wears or quickly.

The new valley 7 footers have a 40 x 80 inch playing surface just like the Diamonds.




You wouldn't happen to know which year they started making them 80 x 40 do you ? Heard someone say that the Valleys at a tournament seemed to play tighter , maybe they tightened them up some too.

 

[RD3P]

The new valley 7 footers have a 40 x 80 inch playing surface just like the Diamonds.




You wouldn't happen to know which year they started making them 80 x 40 do you ? Heard someone say that the Valleys at a tournament seemed to play tighter , maybe they tightened them up some too.

???

i measured the size of my old Brunswick (8 footer) and from end to end(total length) it is a little over 101 inches i cant remember the width dimension off the top of my head.

basically from where the green cloth starts on the rail cusion to the other side where it ends is 8 foot.

 

[smoooothstroke]

fix a valley?

Maybe Valley will 1 day redesign that old coin-eating monster.

One of the things that I hate about them is the way the huge metal (chromed) corner pieces stick up so far.Valleys are built for durability so they can stand up to any punishment a bar full of drunks can dish out,with or without actually playing pool on them.Also the durability of a Valley allows it to be easily moved around either from tournament to tournament or you can dolly them out of the way to make room for a weekend live band or whatever.

For me a Diamond 7' table is a "real" pool table,yes it is small and not for everyone but it allows for consistent play and is suitable for competition between top players.

 

[RoryHunt]

Diamond states the dimension of their 7' smart table as 80" X 40".

And that is exactly what the playing dimensions of my Valley are. It was picked up a few years ago from the Lincoln City BCA regional championships. I think it was set up fairly nicely. I know the side pockets are tighter than the corners. The corners are 4 1/2 and the sides are about 4 1/4. It has Championship cloth on it. I don't know how Valleys are normally set up, but nobody that has ever played on my table said it had big pockets or crappy cloth.

I have never played on a Diamond table, but if it has tighter pockets than mine, it would be quite challenging.

 

[Mr. C]

Maybe Valley will 1 day redesign that old coin-eating monster.

One of the things that I hate about them is the way the huge metal (chromed) corner pieces stick up so far.

Sorry to bump this dinosaur, but thought I'd mention that Valley has made a few design changes to their tables. One being that the corner castings are now flush mount. :thumbup:

 

[realkingcobra]

Sorry to bump this dinosaur, but thought I'd mention that Valley has made a few design changes to their tables. One being that the corner castings are now flush mount. :thumbup:

Thereby creating the problem of balls hitting the back of the corner pockets.....then bouncing back onto the playing surface :thumbup:

 

[trob]

6 foot table????=bar box????

where i come from a "bar box" is a 7 footer...
the only time ive ever seen a cut down 7 was in rooms way too small to have a pool table in the first place.

theres at least 100 bars with pooltables in my area....they are all 7 foot tables except for 2 or 3.

They are rare but they are out there