ABCD rating system

BREEZY B

BREEZY B

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can someone explain to me how this works. I've never played on any of the tours that use this system.

I'm a APA 7 in 9 ball on a barbox. I break and run about 1 rack a match. On a 9 ft table I've never Broke and run out but I have ran 7-8 balls a game. If someone could tell a ballpark guess with that info that be great.

Thanks I'm just curious.
 
BREEZY B said:
Can someone explain to me how this works. I've never played on any of the tours that use this system.

I'm a APA 7 in 9 ball on a barbox. I break and run about 1 rack a match. On a 9 ft table I've never Broke and run out but I have ran 7-8 balls a game. If someone could tell a ballpark guess with that info that be great.

Thanks I'm just curious.
Click to expand...
If you have never broke and ran out on a 9 footer playing 9 ball I would say your a C player IMO.
 
I like Arizonia's ranking system. Too bad all states don't follow it. Johnnyt
 
This is the system we used for the All About Pool and Tri State Tours back in the day.

Handicap rankings

D- Player
will not run a rack
average run is about 3 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, one out of 3 times
rarely plays a successful safe

C-Player
will probably run one rack, but usually not more than one rack in a typical race to 7
avg. run is 3 to 5 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, two out of 3 times
mixed results when playing safe
inning ends due to botched position, missed shot or attempting a safe.

B-Player
Able to run 1 to 3 racks
avg. run is 5-7 balls
with ball in hand will get out form the 5, 2 out of 3 times
most of the time a "B" player will play a "safety" which maybe hit asily 2 out of 3 times
a typical inning will end with a missed shot, a fair safety, or a won game

A-Player
will string 2 to 3 racks
avg. ball run, 7-9
with ball in hand, will be out from the 3 ball, 2 out of 3 times
typical inning will end with a well executed safety or a win.

OPEN-Players
average 8+ balls
string racks together more than once in a match
is a threat to run out from every ball, from every position, every inning
typical inning will end in excellent safety or win


Each Division was broken down into 4 categories. Lowest handicap is D4, then D3, then D2 and so on until the highest would be OPEN 1

When we used this within my pool room for every 2 categories the higher player would have to spot 1 game. In other words a D4 would get 3 games from a C2. (D4-3; D2-1; C4-3;= 3 games on the wire on a race to 7).

Used to have this in a DOS program that used to calculate the players ongoing rating and the handicaps.

Bob
Edit/Delete Message
 
wow

you explained that very well. i can totally get behind that rating system.
wish they used that in the bar tours i used to get in. would have been more fair to all players in my opinon. fair of course, meaning better match-ups.
 
wow that explains a lot i wonder that rating system myself. I'd have to say I'm a good D or an average C player. depending on my day. :)
 
Why is it that lower ranked players tend to brag or claim to be higher than they are and top players always try to rank themselves lower?:confused::shrug:
 
Depressing to think i'm stuck at a C-ish player :bash:



doitforthegame said:
This is the system we used for the All About Pool and Tri State Tours back in the day.

Handicap rankings

D- Player
will not run a rack
average run is about 3 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, one out of 3 times
rarely plays a successful safe

C-Player
will probably run one rack, but usually not more than one rack in a typical race to 7
avg. run is 3 to 5 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, two out of 3 times
mixed results when playing safe
inning ends due to botched position, missed shot or attempting a safe.

B-Player
Able to run 1 to 3 racks
avg. run is 5-7 balls
with ball in hand will get out form the 5, 2 out of 3 times
most of the time a "B" player will play a "safety" which maybe hit asily 2 out of 3 times
a typical inning will end with a missed shot, a fair safety, or a won game

A-Player
will string 2 to 3 racks
avg. ball run, 7-9
with ball in hand, will be out from the 3 ball, 2 out of 3 times
typical inning will end with a well executed safety or a win.

OPEN-Players
average 8+ balls
string racks together more than once in a match
is a threat to run out from every ball, from every position, every inning
typical inning will end in excellent safety or win


Each Division was broken down into 4 categories. Lowest handicap is D4, then D3, then D2 and so on until the highest would be OPEN 1

When we used this within my pool room for every 2 categories the higher player would have to spot 1 game. In other words a D4 would get 3 games from a C2. (D4-3; D2-1; C4-3;= 3 games on the wire on a race to 7).

Used to have this in a DOS program that used to calculate the players ongoing rating and the handicaps.

Bob
Edit/Delete Message
Click to expand...
 
TheBook said:
Why is it that lower ranked players tend to brag or claim to be higher than they are and top players always try to rank themselves lower?:confused::shrug:
Click to expand...

LOL, for gambling. The better player never wants to give up enough weight/handicap to actually lose.
Why lower rated players brag is beyond me.:confused:
 
BREEZY B said:
Can someone explain to me how this works. I've never played on any of the tours that use this system.

I'm a APA 7 in 9 ball on a barbox. I break and run about 1 rack a match. On a 9 ft table I've never Broke and run out but I have ran 7-8 balls a game. If someone could tell a ballpark guess with that info that be great.

Thanks I'm just curious.
Click to expand...
This and other player-rating systems are described in detail here:


Regards,
Dave
 
Maybe Arizona should go back to open play, and thow away the rating book



I use to like the Rating System we had in Arizona, as it was not perfect, but it was sort of fair. I will refer to it as the ARS, (Arizona Rating System)

To let people understand how it was before last summer, if you held a ARS Ratings Card, or were in the ARS Book you had a Rating Number that went from 4-10 MINUS 2.

10-2 = A + Pro Level Player

10-1 = A Player

10 = A- Player

9 = B + Player

8 = B Player

7 = B - Player

6 = C + Player

5 = C Player

4 = C - Player Rank Beginner

Before last summer most of the Bars & Pool Rooms were all on the same page, IMHO some games were being played by the people who were on the ARS & had a Vote, but it was, as has been as long as I lived just Poolotics ala Arizona.

The majority of the tournaments were not OPEN Tournaments, and geared toward the B Players, aka Rated 8, and UNDER PLAYERS, and those with a lessor skill level who I will call recreational players.

The reason was the majority of the tournaments were not OPEN was the Room, and Bar Owners knew from experience that when a player became a “9” Rated Player, or above their alcohol consumption dropped, (alcohol pay the bills in most place pool is played in his state).

Those better players for the most part do not spend like the lessor players on Alcohol. My buddy had 2 Pool Rooms, & 2 Pool Bars in Arizona, and this is what he learn fast! He always said he was in the booze business, and pool table time & quarters in the bar boxes did keep the place open or play the other expenses. He was also on the Original Rating Committee when it all started.

I have heard the moans and groans of the “9’s” and above up until last summers dropping of rating numbers. Their complaining was most about about the few tournament for them to play. But as I said traditionally these players do not produce the income for the Room, and Bar Owner like when they gear their tournament towards the 8’s and UNDER.

The other handicap of this system is as you get better, you get raised up to the point there are few tournament to play because of the reason stated above.

Last summer some group of members of the Rating Committee decided by a vote, to drop every player down a notch to stimulate business, as they felt making 9’s, 8’s, etc. etc. think it would be good for business. The idea pass the vote.

But after the dust settled many owners went along with the new system per the Rating Committees Vote, others rebelled by making their Old 8’s and Under Tournaments, Now 7’s and Under Tournaments. The end result is I honestly do not see more people playing in Tournaments when I am out looking. Bottom line is the NEW DEAL is like Obama a failure IMHO for many lessor Rated Players.

Other things that has turned me SOUR on this Rating System, is some Bar Owners are letting friends come in and play as a lower rated player because of friendship. Not per their Rating in the Book.

Some Td’s to fill a tournament are allowing people who should not be allowed to play say because they are an “8” in a 7’s and Under because they need a few more bodies to buy booze all night.

Recently a sharp player came to Arizona disguised his true speed, got a Non Committee Member who is an instructor to RATE him, the rating was allowed until folks figured out the there was a SHARK ATTACK. The gentleman who gave the rating was TRICKED, and it could happen to any Committee Member by a smart SHARK. In this case the system failed to do what is was suppose to do.

One Rating Committee Member with a bone to pick with another Bar raised a lot of players up a number so to shall we say move players to their bar that had friendlier handicap.

Next you have the problem of the player who got rated long ago, leaves the state, becomes very strong player, and was say rated as a 6 or 7 Rated Player years, ago, he is still list as a 6 or 7 in the Rating Book, now he s playing 10 speed, and is wining everything.

There seem to be some inconsistency in from Room to Room, or Bar to Bar, and now where is the criterial posted or public information as to what make a player a say “7” Rated Player.

Plus IMHO in order to keep track of any players ability it need to be monitor, and scored constantly adjusting rating up or down depending upon how some one plays. Also people play different game better than others, and than you got the Bar Box v/s 4.5 x 9.0 ( big table) factor. Why would you rate a player after only seeing them play on a Bar Box, so is the Bar Box Rating the same as on a Big Table????

Also the almighty Rating Book with all the Player Name, and Rating is not available to see, and I ask a few times to look, and been told it for the EYES of ARS Committee Members Only.

I am honestly think this Rating System need to be eliminated, or not controlled by those with money at stake on how the ARS rust (the bar & room owners) maybe Arizona should go back to open play, and forget all the B.S. & Games.

With open play if you are playing at a higher level you win, if not you loose, and it is hard to SAND BAG with open play, plus why would you Sand Bag with OPEN PLAY?

Just my opinion as we were talking about handicaps, and rating systems.:confused:
 
I appreciate where you're coming from Cowboy, but the problem is getting bodies in the tournament and the lower skilled players aren't gonna play unless they feel they have a chance. Today's lower skill player can realistically evaluate that chance, realizing they have no prayer in an open tournament. Having the handicap is a necessary evil to get enough bodies in the tournament in order to offer a halfway decent prize pool.
 
TimKrazyMon said:
I appreciate where you're coming from Cowboy, but the problem is getting bodies in the tournament and the lower skilled players aren't gonna play unless they feel they have a chance. Today's lower skill player can realistically evaluate that chance, realizing they have no prayer in an open tournament. Having the handicap is a necessary evil to get enough bodies in the tournament in order to offer a halfway decent prize pool.
Click to expand...

You post has merit if you have an Honest Handicap System, that is like how Golf Handicaps Amateur Play, where the Handicap is constantly being monitored, and adjusted.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:


I use to like the Rating System we had in Arizona, as it was not perfect, but it was sort of fair. I will refer to it as the ARS, (Arizona Rating System)

To let people understand how it was before last summer, if you held a ARS Ratings Card, or were in the ARS Book you had a Rating Number that went from 4-10 MINUS 2.

10-2 = A + Pro Level Player

10-1 = A Player

10 = A- Player

9 = B + Player

8 = B Player

7 = B - Player

6 = C + Player

5 = C Player

4 = C - Player Rank Beginner

Before last summer most of the Bars & Pool Rooms were all on the same page, IMHO some games were being played by the people who were on the ARS & had a Vote, but it was, as has been as long as I lived just Poolotics ala Arizona.

The majority of the tournaments were not OPEN Tournaments, and geared toward the B Players, aka Rated 8, and UNDER PLAYERS, and those with a lessor skill level who I will call recreational players.

The reason was the majority of the tournaments were not OPEN was the Room, and Bar Owners knew from experience that when a player became a “9” Rated Player, or above their alcohol consumption dropped, (alcohol pay the bills in most place pool is played in his state).

Those better players for the most part do not spend like the lessor players on Alcohol. My buddy had 2 Pool Rooms, & 2 Pool Bars in Arizona, and this is what he learn fast! He always said he was in the booze business, and pool table time & quarters in the bar boxes did keep the place open or play the other expenses. He was also on the Original Rating Committee when it all started.

I have heard the moans and groans of the “9’s” and above up until last summers dropping of rating numbers. Their complaining was most about about the few tournament for them to play. But as I said traditionally these players do not produce the income for the Room, and Bar Owner like when they gear their tournament towards the 8’s and UNDER.

The other handicap of this system is as you get better, you get raised up to the point there are few tournament to play because of the reason stated above.

Last summer some group of members of the Rating Committee decided by a vote, to drop every player down a notch to stimulate business, as they felt making 9’s, 8’s, etc. etc. think it would be good for business. The idea pass the vote.

But after the dust settled many owners went along with the new system per the Rating Committees Vote, others rebelled by making their Old 8’s and Under Tournaments, Now 7’s and Under Tournaments. The end result is I honestly do not see more people playing in Tournaments when I am out looking. Bottom line is the NEW DEAL is like Obama a failure IMHO for many lessor Rated Players.

Other things that has turned me SOUR on this Rating System, is some Bar Owners are letting friends come in and play as a lower rated player because of friendship. Not per their Rating in the Book.

Some Td’s to fill a tournament are allowing people who should not be allowed to play say because they are an “8” in a 7’s and Under because they need a few more bodies to buy booze all night.

Recently a sharp player came to Arizona disguised his true speed, got a Non Committee Member who is an instructor to RATE him, the rating was allowed until folks figured out the there was a SHARK ATTACK. The gentleman who gave the rating was TRICKED, and it could happen to any Committee Member by a smart SHARK. In this case the system failed to do what is was suppose to do.

One Rating Committee Member with a bone to pick with another Bar raised a lot of players up a number so to shall we say move players to their bar that had friendlier handicap.

Next you have the problem of the player who got rated long ago, leaves the state, becomes very strong player, and was say rated as a 6 or 7 Rated Player years, ago, he is still list as a 6 or 7 in the Rating Book, now he s playing 10 speed, and is wining everything.

There seem to be some inconsistency in from Room to Room, or Bar to Bar, and now where is the criterial posted or public information as to what make a player a say “7” Rated Player.

Plus IMHO in order to keep track of any players ability it need to be monitor, and scored constantly adjusting rating up or down depending upon how some one plays. Also people play different game better than others, and than you got the Bar Box v/s 4.5 x 9.0 ( big table) factor. Why would you rate a player after only seeing them play on a Bar Box, so is the Bar Box Rating the same as on a Big Table????

Also the almighty Rating Book with all the Player Name, and Rating is not available to see, and I ask a few times to look, and been told it for the EYES of ARS Committee Members Only.

I am honestly think this Rating System need to be eliminated, or not controlled by those with money at stake on how the ARS rust (the bar & room owners) maybe Arizona should go back to open play, and forget all the B.S. & Games.

With open play if you are playing at a higher level you win, if not you loose, and it is hard to SAND BAG with open play, plus why would you Sand Bag with OPEN PLAY?

Just my opinion as we were talking about handicaps, and rating systems.:confused:
Click to expand...

I am not sure what to say. I am on the ratings committee and think it is a vital part of Arizona pool. Your top players will say to do away with it because they would prefer open play with the masses of lower rated players never winning and always donating. The ratings enable lower rated players to have a chance to win especially in short races. I have seen the Kolby's tournaments really do well, averaging 32 or more players every Tuesday and yes the cream rises to the top more times then not but lower rated players including 6s can win and have.

I think I have seen more participation in tournaments by people who were lowered. I am looking at the ratings book right now and we have 90% of the players are 6s and under in the whole book with just over 7% as 7s and the other roughly 3% being rated 8 or higher.

I do not think the drop has changed anything for the worse at all IMO and some rooms have seen results and some have not in a positive way. I do feel Kolby's has as the tournaments have been doing well there. If you would like to speak at one of the ratings committee meetings your more then welcome to, its open to anyone to come and see what is going on. I believe there is one coming up this month unless I am mistaken.

Oh and btw Kolbys keeps a log of the top finishers in tournaments which helps, other places should follow suit.
 
Fast Lenny said:
I am not sure what to say. I am on the ratings committee and think it is a vital part of Arizona pool. Your top players will say to do away with it because they would prefer open play with the masses of lower rated players never winning and always donating. The ratings enable lower rated players to have a chance to win especially in short races. I have seen the Kolby's tournaments really do well, averaging 32 or more players every Tuesday and yes the cream rises to the top more times then not but lower rated players including 6s can win and have.
Click to expand...

I have not played at Kolby’s since TRACY left as TD, I use to love the Sunday 8’s, and UNDER 9 BALL BIG TABLE THING. When it was an 8’s, and UNDER. Did tap it one for a Second, and Third. I was smoking HOT those Sundays. Now it is a Nines, and Under with the Rating ADJUSTMENT, and i will pass, as a Nine is a HELL of a LOT STRONGER than an 8. I am talking OLD RATINGS!!!!!

I think I have seen more participation in tournaments by people who were lowered. I am looking at the ratings book right now and we have 90% of the players are 6s and under in the whole book with just over 7% as 7s and the other roughly 3% being rated 8 or higher.
Click to expand...

honestly I have not played at Kolby's in over two years, last time was January 2008.

I do not think the drop has changed anything for the worse at all IMO and some rooms have seen results and some have not in a positive way. I do feel Kolby's has as the tournaments have been doing well there. If you would like to speak at one of the ratings committee meetings your more then welcome to, its open to anyone to come and see what is going on. I believe there is one coming up this month unless I am mistaken.
Click to expand...

I think the Drop that made 9’s, 8’s hurt the lower rated PLAYERS. Think I said I am really think OPEN PLAY is the only way to go to avoid GAMES.

BTW I see in the INFO POOL RAG they are considering undoing what they did when they LOWERED EVERYONE. Could my Prediction be TRUE.

Oh and btw Kolby's keeps a log of the top finishers in tournaments which helps, other places should follow suit.
Click to expand...

I always like playing at Kolby’s when Tracy was TD, he did a GREAT JOB, and honestly I think if some one asked where is the BEST POOL ROOM in the Valley of the Sun I would say KOLBY’s eve thought it is like an hour from me with no traffic.
 
I clicked onto dr.dave's link and copied the different rating systems that were listed. Tried the Joe Tucker rating system, 10-ball (ten racks w/ball-in-hand after the break). I did it three times over the course of today. The three results show me to be a C+ player in the morning, a C player around noon, and a B player in the afternoon. Go figure. Just goes to show you that you really cannot accurately handicap a player without a LOT of data history. BTW, I would be a C player in the Tri-state system.
FWIW, I'm an APA SL6 in 8 and 9-ball.

Maniac
 
doitforthegame said:
This is the system we used for the All About Pool and Tri State Tours back in the day.

Handicap rankings

D- Player
will not run a rack
average run is about 3 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, one out of 3 times
rarely plays a successful safe
Click to expand...

So, from this I can safely assume I'm an E player, is there such a thing?

E - Player
break sucks
will not run a rack, ever!
average run is about 0-2 balls
with ball in hand, will get out from the 7, none out of 3,000,000 times
never plays a successful safe
 
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