APA.........You Do the Math.

[Ball Banger]

The FACTS, JUST the FACTS


How much of your Weekly dues money do you get back from APA?? You Do the Math.


Our BCA banquet is coming up and the current discussion is about the way we are currently paying out approx 80% of the weekly player's dues to various winning teams and awards. Approx 10% of the total money collected is for administrative costs including a paid Sec/Tres who does all the paper work. Approx 10% is spend on food etc for the awards banquet, leaving approx 75 to 80% PAY BACK to the players and Teams etc.


Comparing our pay back to other leagues such as bowling etc. We feel we are right in line with our pay back to league members.

 

[elove]

Re: Apa

Would like to see some BCA leagues in our area. But I dont know if the market would be able to handle it..Pretty sure The APA has it locked down around here..

 

[Ball Banger]

Would like to see some BCA leagues in our area. But I dont know if the market would be able to handle it..Pretty sure The APA has it locked down around here..

elove

If you had a BCA league, people would have to play pool by real pool rules. BTW You wouldn't have to pay $ 50.00 to file a protest and might actually have a chance of winning that protest because they don't have to give your money back.

Sorry but Numbers don't lie.

 

[cuesmith]

The FACTS, JUST the FACTS


How much of your Weekly dues money do you get back from APA?? You Do the Math.


Our BCA banquet is coming up and the current discussion is about the way we are currently paying out approx 80% of the weekly player's dues to various winning teams and awards. Approx 10% of the total money collected is for administrative costs including a paid Sec/Tres who does all the paper work. Approx 10% is spend on food etc for the awards banquet, leaving approx 75 to 80% PAY BACK to the players and Teams etc.


Comparing our pay back to other leagues such as bowling etc. We feel we are right in line with our pay back to league members.

With the APA you'll probably find that 80% goes into Terry Bell and Larry Hubbart's pockets. They don't give much back!

 

[Maniac]

How much of your Weekly dues money do you get back from APA??

It can all depend on your specific league operator. It changes from area to area. The one in my area pockets a lot of cash that could be payed out to session champions, city tourney champions, etc. The only money I have ever heard of anyone getting in my APA area is at the end of the session $25 goes to the Division MVP's. No session champion (regular season nor playoffs) or city tournament (to see which teams go to Vegas) winners have ever gotten a penny as far as I know. Sad to say.

Maniac

 

[Mark Griffin]

Getting a BCA League in your area

To elove and others.

If you want info on how to start a BCA Pool League, please contact our office. It is VERY EASY and costs nothing.

We have ovr 450 league operators and some are large and some are small.

But all of them got their league started for zero invetment. You can play establish your own criteria and in can be a traveling league or an in-house league.

It is better than the APA. Usually BCAPL pay out 75% or so on the local level (compared to the 20% or so of the APA).

If you want a 'national handicapped league' you should check out the USA Pool League It is required that 50% be paid out on the local level but it has no membership dues the first year and puts money into a 'pro pot' which will help support pool. Over 70% of our matches go hill-hill and sandbaggers do not survive very well.

All qualified members of both of these leagues are eligible to play in the National tournament in Las Vegas at the Riviera in May - the greatest pool show on earth.

Please feel free to contact us for no obligation information.

Thanks,

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI
BCAPL - USAPL - NCS

 

[alstl]

I had never played in either until now and I'm in one of each. One APA league and one BCA league. I just show up and shoot pool, I don't know about all the other stuff. The difference I see from a pool perspective is no pushout in APA, different scoring system, and I'm not sure what the handicap system is in BCA but it seems very restrictive in APA. The APA seems to prohibit too many good players from playing.

 

[TheBook]

The FACTS, JUST the FACTS


How much of your Weekly dues money do you get back from APA?? You Do the Math.


Our BCA banquet is coming up and the current discussion is about the way we are currently paying out approx 80% of the weekly player's dues to various winning teams and awards. Approx 10% of the total money collected is for administrative costs including a paid Sec/Tres who does all the paper work. Approx 10% is spend on food etc for the awards banquet, leaving approx 75 to 80% PAY BACK to the players and Teams etc.


Comparing our pay back to other leagues such as bowling etc. We feel we are right in line with our pay back to league members.

What league are you referring to? Your topic is APA but your discussion is about BCA. What is your point?

 

[APA LO]

It is better than the APA. Usually BCAPL pay out 75% or so on the local level (compared to the 20% or so of the APA).

If you want a 'national handicapped league' you should check out the USA Pool League It is required that 50% be paid out on the local level but it has no membership dues the first year and puts money into a 'pro pot' which will help support pool. Over 70% of our matches go hill-hill and sandbaggers do not survive very well.Thanks,

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI
BCAPL - USAPL - NCS

Not only are you way off, Mark, but you are also way out of line. If you think my league only pays back 20%, you are extremely misinformed. Or are you spewing forth that garbage because you believe you have to make the competition look bad in order to make your own product look good?

You should be embarrassed.

 

[accustatsfan]

My area stopped hosting APA because the money doesn't benefit anyone except teams that make it to nationals. In house handicap leagues are popular because all the money comes back one way or the other.

If owner A always gets regional (with all of the extra money) and other owners never do what's their incentive?

I don't play APA anymore, but one of the owners I know has the room, tables, etc and she could never get the LO to allow it because he didn't live there.

 

[Andrew Manning]

The FACTS, JUST the FACTS


How much of your Weekly dues money do you get back from APA?? You Do the Math.


Our BCA banquet is coming up and the current discussion is about the way we are currently paying out approx 80% of the weekly player's dues to various winning teams and awards. Approx 10% of the total money collected is for administrative costs including a paid Sec/Tres who does all the paper work. Approx 10% is spend on food etc for the awards banquet, leaving approx 75 to 80% PAY BACK to the players and Teams etc.


Comparing our pay back to other leagues such as bowling etc. We feel we are right in line with our pay back to league members.

If you're playing league pool for the money, you're playing for the wrong reason. I could completely understand complaints about high fees, if the fees are too high for some, but complaints about low payouts? It isn't a tour, it's an amateur league. The reward should be the enjoyment you get out of it.

-Andrew

 

[CreeDo]

League is a product you purchase just like your car or TV. You're buying a fun night out with friends to play competitive pool as a team. It is not a lottery ticket or a massive tournament.

If that's not worth 8 bucks a week or whatever they charge, then spend your money on something else. Don't bash leagues for offering the product. Lots of players think it's worth buying and they don't piss and moan about not getting cash out of it. That cash is just the gravy on top.

I also think it's tacky to bash apa specifically, even if it's to promote another pool league. APA does something good for pool and brings enjoyment to a lot of people. If someone gets rich in the process then that's fine with me... when you do something well (like provide a good league experience to a quarter million people) then you deserve to get paid for it. I'd like to see both BCA and APA membership grow next year. Along with VNEA, TAP, and anyone else who is willing to do the work to get people into pool.

 

[Scott Lee]

CreeDo...This is a well-reasoned, rational and logical response to the OP and the APA-bashing posts. Well done! I can certainly understand people's anger at some APA rules (and especially at the national office management...which I tend to agree with), but act on it by not playing, instead of lashing out publicly on an internet forum! The APA is not for everyone, and never said it was, nor tried to be. It does a good job at what it is supposed to do...get more people at least casually interested in pool. Thank you for a thoughtful response to what is always a volatile issue on this forum. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

League is a product you purchase just like your car or TV. You're buying a fun night out with friends to play competitive pool as a team. It is not a lottery ticket or a massive tournament.

If that's not worth 8 bucks a week or whatever they charge, then spend your money on something else. Don't bash leagues for offering the product. Lots of players think it's worth buying and they don't piss and moan about not getting cash out of it. That cash is just the gravy on top.

I also think it's tacky to bash apa specifically, even if it's to promote another pool league. APA does something good for pool and brings enjoyment to a lot of people. If someone gets rich in the process then that's fine with me... when you do something well (like provide a good league experience to a quarter million people) then you deserve to get paid for it. I'd like to see both BCA and APA membership grow next year. Along with VNEA, TAP, and anyone else who is willing to do the work to get people into pool.

 

[Scott Lee]

Andrew...Tap, tap, tap!:thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

If you're playing league pool for the money, you're playing for the wrong reason. I could completely understand complaints about high fees, if the fees are too high for some, but complaints about low payouts? It isn't a tour, it's an amateur league. The reward should be the enjoyment you get out of it.

-Andrew

 

[Ball Banger]

Not only are you way off, Mark, but you are also way out of line. If you think my league only pays back 20%, you are extremely misinformed. Or are you spewing forth that garbage because you believe you have to make the competition look bad in order to make your own product look good?

You should be embarrassed.

No APA LO

You should be embarrassed for only returning 20% or $ 1.60 of the $ 8.00 weekly fee you charge. Numbers don't lie, APA should go down history as the BEST POOL HUSTLE ever.

 

[Thunderball]

Ya know...I think I'll throw some popcorn in the old nuke oven and make my self comfortable..

 

[cuesmith]

Not only are you way off, Mark, but you are also way out of line. If you think my league only pays back 20%, you are extremely misinformed. Or are you spewing forth that garbage because you believe you have to make the competition look bad in order to make your own product look good?

You should be embarrassed.

My biggest complaint against the APA is the "23 rule"! The reason for my discust of this rule is that it's nothing but a Ponzi Scheme. It's devised to split teams so they'll be forced to form 2 new teams. This is to benefit the APA management, not the players! People who go along with this BS are forced to sandbag in order to be able to continue playing together. This makes the whole system a travesty IMHO! I'll continue to voice my opinion about these unscrupulous people who are in actuality driving a spike in the heart of our sport! You want to know why pool isn't going anywhere? It's organizations like the APA who rape the sport for their own gain who are driving it into the ground!

And the power play they pulled to keep Mark Griffin off the WPBA Board is just another example! I don't begrudge them making money. I just don't like their methods!

 

[jdxprs]

how exactly do you factor in the money that is paid out at the national level for leagues like apa and tap?

 

[justadub]

Uhhh.... a "ponzi scheme"?

From the US Securities and Exchange Commission:

"What is a Ponzi scheme?
A Ponzi scheme is an investment fraud that involves the payment of purported returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity."

I realize it's cool to reference ponzi schemes after the Madoff scandal, but it doesn't apply to APA.

#1: There is no promise of return on investment. The only promise is a fun night out playing pool. Nothing more.
#2: Since we see in #1 above there is no return on investment promised in exchange for the funds spent, the attracting of new customers to APA doesn't fund any previously made promise, as there is none.

Yes, the 23 rule encourages teams to split up and to bring in more new players, so that the teams can fit under the handicap. This isn't hidden, it isn't secret, and it isn't evil. It is a business plan, and it works for them quite nicely. Don't like their business, and it's practices? Don't patronize them.

Chill out people. I don't agree with everything APA does, but stop comparing it to Bernie Madoff, and stop thinking you are being ripped off. If you don't enjoy playing, don't play. Don't expect to make money playing APA. They don't promise that to you. You shouldn't expect that from them. Yes, there are big prizes to be won each year at Nationals. But surely you are intelligent enough to calculate how long the odds are to cash in, out of 260,000 members, is a very small percentage. It is not "owed" to you.

Talking about "giving back"... how do you suppose the manufacturers of pool playing equipment feel about the APA? And the fact that they attract more players each year to the sport, by utilizing the insidious 23 rule? Think that there are more people buying cues, cases, gloves, chalk, and even tables? Yup. I'd say that is "giving back" to the pool industry. And that is good for everyone playing pool, as the suppliers are going to be stronger, and have more offerings for all of us.

Try and have some fun.

 

[NoBull9]

I have shot on an APA team for 15 years plus.I shoot BCA aswell.I've never been to vegas with either league.Its not about the money its just fun and its supports my local pool room.Now both leagues offer one thing in common they bring players to the pool rooms that purchase the products that support pro pool.To say one legue is better then the other nothing more then opinion.I can tell you this if it weren't for the Apa chapter in and around Atlanta most te pool rooms would be gone.The bca room host just sold out here.The apa host Q's 2 is the largest supporter of pro and ameture pool in Atl.