Is it possible, (taking in factors such as spin,friction coeficient, and other possible factors) to cut a shot in at 90 degrees or <90 degrees?
Cutting a ball backwards
- Thread starter Delaware Lar
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There's a video on Youtube of someone cutting a ball 93 degrees. Outside english and balls that aren't too clean are required. A level stroke will work.
Me too, I watched the video about 20 times but can't remember who it was.
Bob's shot is about 90 degrees here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaSKh1PSqok&feature=PlayList&p=54C5D0246AFC5BBC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=44
It's difficult to throw the ball over because the cue ball is swerving and creates a greater angle than balls originally had. Also, a thin cut really doesn't take the throw much. If you hit it hard enough to cancel the swerve, then the throw doesn't take.
Bob is hitting this shot perfect, outside spin to throw it, (or cancel the contact throw), center ball (to limit the swerve).
The max is very close to 90 degrees or maybe as Bob says, a few degrees over. The key word is "possible". For practical purposes, on the playing table in a game, for most of us, the answer is "not advisable".
Chris
Ps. I've tried this shot without side spin and in my opinion it's not possible.
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I've done it many times. It defies logic.
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You can also do it by driving the rock away from the object ball
The simonis allows the cue to spin the object ball alot before it moves in it's foreward motion. This alters it's path and changes the line of travel of the object ball. You do this shooting at warp speed. Much like a middle game break shot in straight. It is exactly backwords from spinning the ball and gets a more redical direction change.
The shot on utube is sweet. I wounder if it was a rainy day!
Nick
The simonis allows the cue to spin the object ball alot before it moves in it's foreward motion. This alters it's path and changes the line of travel of the object ball. You do this shooting at warp speed. Much like a middle game break shot in straight. It is exactly backwords from spinning the ball and gets a more redical direction change.
The shot on utube is sweet. I wounder if it was a rainy day!
Nick
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Outside? I thought it was inside english.
You can cut substantially beyond 90 degrees using a half masse. But maybe that doesnt count because once the cue ball contacts object ball its technically curved in to the point less then 90 degrees...But it should count because they start out beyond 90. I have done this at close range 50% success. Again this is beyond 90, if its just 90, it can be done at higher success rates.
It's about 93 degrees. The five ball was on the spot and the cue ball was about six inches out from the pocket drop and straight towards the five. The five went in on the tough side of the (4-inch) pocket. I think the video also shows a shot in which the object ball is cut towards the end rail about 3/4 diamond from the pocket, but it only went 8 inches or so.
Intentional skid is a wonderful thing.
Did you actually measure the angle? The spot might not be centered.
I am not versed in physics, but it defies my logic that with such a thin hit at such high speed, the ball can be thrown that much.
Chris
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Absolutely!
I first saw this shot many moons ago when I locked horns with Dallas West. We were playing 9 ball (his weaker game) and he rolled out to a cut that was quite a bit more than 90 degrees down on the short rail. Trust me, I'm a contractor. When I say it was more than 90 degrees, it WAS MORE than 90 degrees. It was a tough bank, so I let him shoot again. We were playing two shot rollout and I figured if I didn't like the leave I could roll out on him. He spun the CB with extreme outside english and a soft, smooth stroke. I watched the object ball kind of twist when it came in contact with the CB as the throw from the side spin took effect. It wobbled unnaturally into the jaws and dropped. Dallas looked over to me and said, 'See, you can cut a ball backwards'. I paid for that lesson.The crazy thing about this shot is that when you use extreme side spin, the CB swerve actually increases the cut angle as it curves back to the contact point on the object ball. Say you're cutting a ball to the left. You would be using right spin. As you put right spin on the CB, it initially will swerve to the left. But, with speed control, you can hit it soft enough for it to actually curve back to the right and hit the correct spot on the object ball. So, you are increasing the cut angle in addition to already being more than 90 degrees!
I roll out to this shot in matches. If I miss, usually the object ball gets spit out of the pocket and the CB is spinning towards the opposite end of the table for a good leave or even a safety. A powerful shot for your arsenal.
The spot is in the right place.
The trick is that the shot is not that thin or that high speed. The throw -- because it is really skid/cling/kick/bad-contact -- is a lot. Check out Joe Tucker's impossible cross-side banks on Youtube. You can judge from the angle of the cue ball off the object ball how full he actually hits the ball. I'd guess that it is about an 80-degree hit and over 10 degrees of throw.
Dr. Dave also has a video analysis of this shot in which he measures the angles.
For the speed, you can judge that on the cut shots where the cue ball goes around the table three cushions and just gets back to the corner the object ball is going towards. It's not that fast.
Most people will never encounter this action on thin cuts on their own because they never use that much side.
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I'm sorry, I cannot trust you solely on the fact you are a contractor. In fact since you are a contractor, I will need 3 written estimates.
Absolutely!
The crazy thing about this shot is that when you use extreme side spin, the CB swerve actually increases the cut angle as it curves back to the contact point on the object ball. Say you're cutting a ball to the left. You would be using right spin. As you put right spin on the CB, it initially will swerve to the left. But, with speed control, you can hit it soft enough for it to actually curve back to the right and hit the correct spot on the object ball. So, you are increasing the cut angle in addition to already being more than 90 degrees!
I roll out to this shot in matches. If I miss, usually the object ball gets spit out of the pocket and the CB is spinning towards the opposite end of the table for a good leave or even a safety. A powerful shot for your arsenal.
That explains it (less cut/more throw). Thanks - I'll check out the videos.
So to the OP - the answer is, yes -- using no masse, a ball can be cut in backwards (slightly) over a 90 degree angle measured at contact points by using spin induced throw under certain conditions.
Chris
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