How to identify a hustler.

I think the saying is something to the effect that you can’t cheat an honest man.

The hustler is looking for your greed, your weakness. Is it your pride, your need to look good in front of your buddies or are you made better by the heart to play in a high stakes game with everyone watching. Mr. Hustle is looking for your weakness and before you gamble you should know your weaknesses as one of the better ways to guard against the hustle.

Huh? I understand the saying but in life honest people get cheated by "hustlers" every day.

Some people just like to gamble a little with no larceny in their heart. They like to play for 5 or 10 with people that they have about an equal ability with.

The real hustler can string these people along for days bleeding them dry. He calls them "customers."

The only way not to lose money to a hustler is to not play. If you play for money against strangers then you will lose to a hustler somewhere along the line.

For me I can usually spot the hustler pretty quick as he is the one wearing the oversized "Hustlin" t-shirt. :-)
 
I was at the Akron Open around 1990 or so that used to be played at Starcher’s in Akron, Ohio. Hopkins had just been elected as the president of the men’s pro players association in whatever name it was going under at the time. Strickland and Hopkins were on the win side and pretty deep into the tournament. After the first game or two Strickland in his usual talk to the crowd manner started accusing Hopkins of unethical and unsportsmanlike like conduct. Strickland insinuated that Hopkins gave him a slug rack, moved a ball and other types of stupid things that Hopkins would never do and anyone who knew Hopkins knows it was just Earl acting the fool. But there were a lot of “fans” reporters and other types of people at the event. Those who knew Hopkins knew it, the others did not. It was kind of embarrassing to everyone who knew what was going on, but not to Earl – and he did win.

His trick worked. It threw Hopkins off his game. Later when I thought about it I realized that Strickland had used Hopkins’ election as a major contributor to the game in Hopkins very professional style to get to Hopkins. Seems to me that Hopkins, at that time, and given the recent election, and all the publicity was particularly susceptible to these public insinuations that tarnished Hopkins and whatever the name of the Men’s Association was at that time.

I guess that for some people Strickland used a strategy to win. I thought that Hopkins got hustled using his pride in himself and his organization to defeat him

Like someone said, I don't think that Hopkins saw it coming.

We call that sharking not hustling.
 
Given that a shark and a hustler are not necessarily the same person it would seems that there is another good idea here. The people with a shark for an avatar or as a decal on their case are publically stating that they are about wrecking the other guy’s game.

Obviously the hustler doesn’t advertize. So the guy with a shark for a logo is not the kind of guy I want to play pool with because he is about wrecking my game! Personally, I prefer a fair fight and his best game but not everyone agrees.

Then too, the guy with a shark for a logo has told me much about himself. Forewarned is forearmed

This is an unfair characterization. A pool shark is not generally known as someone who engages in the practice of "sharking". Pool Shark is a term that people use to describe a person who is as deadly with a pool cue as a real shark is in the water. People also think of pool shark and hustler as one entity so in that sense yes a pool shark would likely engage in sharking if they were also a hustler.

BUT the image of the Pool Shark is certainly not carried around and displayed by people who identify themselves with the sharking hustler. Instead they identify themselves with the top-of-the-food-chain excellent player image that the Pool Shark motif suggests.
 
Well John thanks for clearing everything up for the forum, at least I apprecaite it!!!!!!;)

Did you see the other thread where some one posted one of your cases along side a Melton Case, they certainly make a great pair of cases.

Take Care:)
 
A real hustler ???

I know a lot of players watch the movie "The Hustler" or "the Color Of Money" and think they are a hustler. Usually they are just a shark or a cheat. The real hustler was the chunky black kid in the Color Of Money.
Watch the movie and notice the way he moves.

A real hustler always keeps his opponent thinking he CAN beat him.
He never crushes anyone but manages to get enough lucky shots and leaves to win the cash.
He don't mind losing one game out of three and just might do that on purpose.
He usually plays a ball or two better than his opponent up to his real speed.
You will be beat by a real hustler and leave thinking he was lucky and the next time you play him you will win.
A real hustler is calm, cool, proficient, friendly, and damm good at pool ... but you will never see his best game.
Oh Yeah ... you never see him playing the other good players either.
Beat them and he might as well move on.

Willee .... not a hustler.
 
If you're ever in a pool room and some guy goes out of his way to breathe alcohol fumes on you, chances are good it's a hustle and he just gargled some bourbon in the mens room.

If the friend of a guy who's in action at the time asks if you'd like to kill some time with cheap sets...

If after you've been hitting by yourself some guy comes up and lets you pick the game and name your own spot..

If you jack up the bet to bleed some sucker and he has to stifle a grin...

If the guy asks you a second or third time to explain the rules of the game to him...

If a flock of railbirds follows your challenger to the table...
 
The weekend before last me and my wife were playing at a local bar and two guys come in. It was Sunday afternoon around 2:00, the place was empty except for me an my wife and a few people sitting at the bar playing video poker. With 13 empty tables to play on these two guys come up and take a table right next to us. Both guys are probably in their late forties or very early fifties. One guy was pretty quiet, but the other was loud and very obnoxious. Yelling about the music on the juke box and how much he had to drink already before he got there. He complains loudly about the house cues as he walks around the place looking for one he likes.

The loud guy starts telling me how he is the best pool player ever and how his buddy really sucks but he is trying to teach him. When they finally set up a rack, and he knows I'm watching him, he fires up and miscues on the break shot. He continues to make shots way to hard and skipping the cue ball off the table a few times. After about half an hour of him trying to look like he is so drunk he can barely hit the cue ball, that's when he asks if we want to play a few games with him and his friend. This guy couldn't have been more obvious if he had a neon sign over his head that said "I'm a hustler".

We played a doubles game and lost, with loud guy making a few "lucky" shots like a 3 rail kick and two long table banks through traffic. We left after that. Loud obnoxious jerks like that tend get on my nerves. Although his theatrics were so over the top that it was rather comical. If I was a better player I might have stuck around and played the sap for a while, at least until the money got interesting :D

Hmmmmm sounds familiar...tall solidly built guy with gray hair and mustache accompanied by a shorty skinny guy that looked and acted borderline retarded...possibly wearing a lame iron on t-shirt with something autoracing related on it? If so it's Gotta be the same two guys that invaded a pool hall in South Austin about two weeks ago. I was hitting by myself when they came in. They didn't say "boo" to me when I was practicing near them but after I put my stuff away and went to the bar to hangout they were "working it" with all the casual could barely make a ball recreational pool players that started filling into their area. Funny show. no takers:D

PS...the taller one looked at EVERY house cue in the place of which there are probably at least 100 spread all around the place.Funny as hell to me:D
 
Well John thanks for clearing everything up for the forum, at least I apprecaite it!!!!!!;)

Did you see the other thread where some one posted one of your cases along side a Melton Case, they certainly make a great pair of cases.

Take Care:)

Thanks I saw it - nice pair of cases. Got anything to add to the topic of this thread?

:-)
 
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Thanks I saw it - nice pair of cases. Got anything to add to the topic of this thread?

:-)

I already did add something, like I said I just was really impressed with the way you have taken control and corrected everyone, it also appears that you are not the threads OP, so who are you to ask anyone if they have something to add!!!!!!!:confused:

You know you really did not have to edit the post I am responding to, those kind of comments are totally within your character, no reason to change that!!!!!:)
 
I have been down the road many miles with my partner Tony and he and I have had a long running argument about whether or not he could spot a hustler or not. I told him that the real hustlers are so good you will honestly in your heart and soul believe that you can beat them. You will believe that you can give them weight, you will take pity on them, you will invite them into your home, you will loan them money, you will go out of your way for them because they know exactly how to manipulate you.

He didn't believe that and said that he could always tell. He is generally the type who is VERY CAUTIOUS about these things.

So he buys a bar and puts a table in there. This guy comes in one day who says he is from Croatia. He doesn't even look at the pool table. He has some coffee and plays the slot machine a little and leaves. He becomes a regular and sometimes comments on the pool games when 9 ball is being played, says that he played a little in Croatia and that they played a game with pins and he doesn't know the rules to anything else. So Tony agrees to teach him how to play 9 ball. And the guy is not a good player, doesn't understand strategy, etc... Tony doesn't really play for money so he doesn't try to get the guy in a game. But as the weeks go on the guy plays a little for beers with the English bricklayers who are coming in and that leads to playing for a little money and he always loses 20 or so and some beer. Still doesn't really play 9 ball the right way.

So one night he is playing one of the bricklayers and they end up playing for 50 a rack and the Croatian wins like 400 and the bricklayer quits. Now Tony is not one to let 400 walk out of his bar so he asks the Croatian if he wants to keep playing. The Croatian agrees and they start. Tony loses a couple hundred and jacks the bet to 100 and he loses about 500 more. Now he jacks the bet to 200 and loses 1000 and Tony pulls up.

The Croatian never came back in the bar. Tony wanted me to play him but he never came back.

To this day Tony still believes he didn't get hustled.
 
I already did add something, like I said I just was really impressed with the way you have taken control and corrected everyone, it also appears that you are not the threads OP, so who are you to ask anyone if they have something to add!!!!!!!:confused:

You know you really did not have to edit the post I am responding to, those kind of comments are totally within your character, no reason to change that!!!!!:)


Craig you don't have to be a dick. I understand that I have pissed you off and I am sorry. I won't question or disagree with you again. I know that it's in your character to attack when you feel challenged and I am sorry for triggering that drive in you.

I changed my comments because I jumped to the wrong conclusion that you posted an off-topic reference to another thread for some other reason. Sorry for that as well.

The fact is that you commenting on my commenting really doesn't add to the thread and it FEELS like you are doing it to piss me off. Sorry for jumping to the wrong conclusion and not trusting that your motives for commenting on my comments were benign.

I shouldn't read more into it and just accept at face value whatever you say. Again my sincere apologies for offending you.
 
I think the term “con” as used here refers to the “confidence man” or the person who attempts to gain your confidence so that you will give him money under false pretenses. The methods used by the con man are usually considered to be illegal though they are based on the other person’s greed. I think one of the better examples is the con artist who gets a person to invest $100.00 to illegally earn 50% interest in one week. At the end of a week the sucker receives a $50.00 interest payment (actually his own money is returned) and then the sucker is asked if he wants to invest $1,000.00 to make $500.00 in interest. Eventually the confidence man gets the largest investment possible and leaves for parts unknown.

There are all sorts of variations in the pool room but the idea is the same. You think you have the nuts while you are actually getting ripped off.

Con as in ex-con or convict is another type of character who has served time in prison.

I suspect that I am not the only one who never really made much distinction between being conned and being sharked. Both terms imply underhanded, immoral or even illegal behavior. A shark, in my thinking, was a hustler who chose his moment to eat the fish.

Now I think that the shark is a type of person who sets out to use whatever underhanded methods are available to win a game, match or set while a hustler’s intent is to acquire money. I think that both types of characters do not want the sucker or the fish to know that they have been taken.

It is interesting that in our culture we have a type of respect or admiration for the con artist and the shark. Thus we tell young business associates that they need to be a hustler if they are to succeed in the business world. In this sense to be a hustler is a “good” thing. And the slope gets slippery when we use this business hustle as a reason to take advantage of anyone stupid enough to fall for it.

It has always seemed odd to me that by and large pool players have some sort of admiration for people who take on a confidence man’s mystique to make money playing pool. While I suspect that there are a few pool hustlers who have earned a good deal of money and even perhaps retired with substantial sums it seems to me that most of the people I have met who consider themselves pool hustlers are little more than small time near criminals who do not make substantial sums. More importantly the perception of one’s self as underhanded and a subtle cheat has to take its toll on most people at one point or another in their life.

I guess I just don’t understand the satisfaction that some people get in ripping off others.
 
different meanings of hustle

I think the term “con” as used here refers to the “confidence man” or the person who attempts to gain your confidence so that you will give him money under false pretenses. The methods used by the con man are usually considered to be illegal though they are based on the other person’s greed. I think one of the better examples is the con artist who gets a person to invest $100.00 to illegally earn 50% interest in one week. At the end of a week the sucker receives a $50.00 interest payment (actually his own money is returned) and then the sucker is asked if he wants to invest $1,000.00 to make $500.00 in interest. Eventually the confidence man gets the largest investment possible and leaves for parts unknown.

There are all sorts of variations in the pool room but the idea is the same. You think you have the nuts while you are actually getting ripped off.

Con as in ex-con or convict is another type of character who has served time in prison.

I suspect that I am not the only one who never really made much distinction between being conned and being sharked. Both terms imply underhanded, immoral or even illegal behavior. A shark, in my thinking, was a hustler who chose his moment to eat the fish.

Now I think that the shark is a type of person who sets out to use whatever underhanded methods are available to win a game, match or set while a hustler’s intent is to acquire money. I think that both types of characters do not want the sucker or the fish to know that they have been taken.

It is interesting that in our culture we have a type of respect or admiration for the con artist and the shark. Thus we tell young business associates that they need to be a hustler if they are to succeed in the business world. In this sense to be a hustler is a “good” thing. And the slope gets slippery when we use this business hustle as a reason to take advantage of anyone stupid enough to fall for it.

It has always seemed odd to me that by and large pool players have some sort of admiration for people who take on a confidence man’s mystique to make money playing pool. While I suspect that there are a few pool hustlers who have earned a good deal of money and even perhaps retired with substantial sums it seems to me that most of the people I have met who consider themselves pool hustlers are little more than small time near criminals who do not make substantial sums. More importantly the perception of one’s self as underhanded and a subtle cheat has to take its toll on most people at one point or another in their life.

I guess I just don’t understand the satisfaction that some people get in ripping off others.

Joe,

I don't mean to be unpleasant cutting and pasting from the dictionary. In this case it gives the various meanings of hustle and hustler better than I can. You have to remember that hustle means move fast or work hard too. We aren't admiring people in business for being confidence men, we are admiring them for working hard.

(Included Text)
1 a : jostle, shove b : to convey forcibly or hurriedly c : to urge forward precipitately
2 a : to obtain by energetic activity <hustle up new customers> b : to sell something to or obtain something from by energetic and especially underhanded activity <hustling the suckers> c : to sell or promote energetically and aggressively <hustling a new product> d : to lure less skillful players into competing against oneself at (a gambling game) <hustle pool>
intransitive verb
1 : shove, press
2 : hasten, hurry
3 a : to make strenuous efforts to obtain especially money or business b : to obtain money by fraud or deception c : to engage in prostitution
4 : to play a game or sport in an alert aggressive manner

— hustle noun

— hus·tler \ˈhə-slər\ noun
(End Included Text)

As you can see there are about an equal number of good things that can be called hustle and hustling and bad things. Often in practice every good play on a sports field is rewarded with a coach shouting, "Way to go, good hustle!" They are talking about recognizing the situation in a split second, moving fast, and making the play. Nothing to do with anything deceitful. I have to admit that I do understand why foreigners wrestle with the english language, especially the spoken words. We can get confused ourselves. The same words meaning something good and something bad doesn't make much sense.

Hu
 
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I think the term “con” as used here refers to the “confidence man” or the person who attempts to gain your confidence so that you will give him money under false pretenses. The methods used by the con man are usually considered to be illegal though they are based on the other person’s greed. I think one of the better examples is the con artist who gets a person to invest $100.00 to illegally earn 50% interest in one week. At the end of a week the sucker receives a $50.00 interest payment (actually his own money is returned) and then the sucker is asked if he wants to invest $1,000.00 to make $500.00 in interest. Eventually the confidence man gets the largest investment possible and leaves for parts unknown.

There are all sorts of variations in the pool room but the idea is the same. You think you have the nuts while you are actually getting ripped off.

Con as in ex-con or convict is another type of character who has served time in prison.

I suspect that I am not the only one who never really made much distinction between being conned and being sharked. Both terms imply underhanded, immoral or even illegal behavior. A shark, in my thinking, was a hustler who chose his moment to eat the fish.

Now I think that the shark is a type of person who sets out to use whatever underhanded methods are available to win a game, match or set while a hustler’s intent is to acquire money. I think that both types of characters do not want the sucker or the fish to know that they have been taken.

It is interesting that in our culture we have a type of respect or admiration for the con artist and the shark. Thus we tell young business associates that they need to be a hustler if they are to succeed in the business world. In this sense to be a hustler is a “good” thing. And the slope gets slippery when we use this business hustle as a reason to take advantage of anyone stupid enough to fall for it.

It has always seemed odd to me that by and large pool players have some sort of admiration for people who take on a confidence man’s mystique to make money playing pool. While I suspect that there are a few pool hustlers who have earned a good deal of money and even perhaps retired with substantial sums it seems to me that most of the people I have met who consider themselves pool hustlers are little more than small time near criminals who do not make substantial sums. More importantly the perception of one’s self as underhanded and a subtle cheat has to take its toll on most people at one point or another in their life.

I guess I just don’t understand the satisfaction that some people get in ripping off others.

Wow, getting deep here.

Hustling at pool is at best just allowing the other person to make assumptions which may not be true about the opponent's skill level relative to their own to at worst setting elaborate traps involving willful deception to trick the mark into thinking that they have the nuts.

Since gambling at pool is considered a contest of skill in most states and therefore legal then it is not illegal to hide your speed and identity from your opponent. Immoral? Yes. Illegal? No.

The satisfaction that people get from obtaining money through trickery is that they feel more powerful than the sucker. They feel that they were smarter and thus able to fleece the stupid without working too hard.

Fast Eddie put it succintly, "Money won is twice as sweet as money earned."

The Hustler as a romantic figure comes from the idea that we'd all like to be free to choose a life of making plenty of money off of the people who are "less intelligent". It's been a staple character in books and movies since Robin Hood. The hustler isn't seen as a leech on society but instead a sort of clever fox who is always outwitting the hunters. Or to put it another way the Hustler is the last Easy Rider - free to go where they want, beholden to none but themselves.

Societal acceptance also comes from the dramatization of pimps and drug dealers as hero figures who are just making a living on the mean streets. They are both said to be hustling to make it.

The best hustlers are supreme con artists and they ply their trade with all the skills of the highest paid movie stars. The best hustlers will win all your money and you will still take them to breakfast because you like the guy so much.

The use the term hustle in business does not necessarily connotate the idea that one should be the con-artist variety. Let's not forget that to hustle also means to get things done quickly. So in business I have always taken the words hustle and hustler to mean someone who gets off their ass (or off AZB) and gets out there and gets business moving. They are always working on something. I have never thought of them as the 'get ahead by trickery' type of hustler when applied to business.

I personally don't approve of hustling in pool - I have been hustled and I have hustled and I didn't like the feeling after both situations. I can say for me that hustling does in fact wear on my pysche - it feels rotten to try and maintain another persona, it's hard to lay down, and at least for me it really does feel like I am trying to steal the other person's money. I think that it takes something of a sociopath to hustle pool and not feel bad about it.

I will say this though, some of my best friends in pool are hustlers and very good ones. They are some of the best people to hang out with, always funny as hell, always have great road stories, and always willing to borrow my last $20. :-)
 
I was present in the room when Earl Strickland hustled Alan Hopkins out of a tournament win. So we are all suscpetible to the hustle. Advice from those who have seen its many forms could be of use.

earll is niever going to hustle Allen. Earl is not nearly smart enoughlAllenwould turn him out in the gambling world!
 
When I say the hustle worked, I noted that Hopkins started missing shots and position that he had not been missing earlier in the tournament. Not many, but then with Earl you don't have to miss many.


This ain't hustling, it is earl being a normal chicken shit Kind of Guy.
 
I guess I just don’t understand the satisfaction that some people get in ripping off others.

Joe, the question is, how are they ripping anyone off.

If I walk in wasted drunk to your pool room and ask you to play for money, and you say yes... Who's ripping who off? Doesn't matter who wins. If you fall in the trap, you are just as guilty. Why would you rip off a drunk guy? Or someone who doesn't play as good? Or whatever... Point being, if you fall in a hustlers trap, you were trying to rip them off as well.
 
I look for the disco ball on the ceiling, lighted dance floor, BeeGees, and tight nylon clothes in sycopated motion on the aforementioned dance floor.
Hustlers....

A hustler is also a mens magazine with a propensity for gutter humor and added lighting to illuminate a well oiled lady part.



:cool:
 
Hmmmmm sounds familiar...tall solidly built guy with gray hair and mustache accompanied by a shorty skinny guy that looked and acted borderline retarded...possibly wearing a lame iron on t-shirt with something autoracing related on it? If so it's Gotta be the same two guys that invaded a pool hall in South Austin about two weeks ago. I was hitting by myself when they came in. They didn't say "boo" to me when I was practicing near them but after I put my stuff away and went to the bar to hangout they were "working it" with all the casual could barely make a ball recreational pool players that started filling into their area. Funny show. no takers:D

PS...the taller one looked at EVERY house cue in the place of which there are probably at least 100 spread all around the place.Funny as hell to me:D

Dead Money,
I wouldn't say the one guy was too tall , maybe around 5'10". He did have gray hair and a moustache though. His partner was shorter and was not thin, but not really overweight either. He looked to be around 50 or so and was hispanic. He was wearing a gold rimmed glasses and a ball cap, but I can't remember what was on it, although I seem to think that it was NASCAR related. I wouln't say he was acting totally retarded, but he definitely acted like he had only held a cue a few times in his life and was too dumb to remember the rules of 9 ball between his turns at the table.

They could possibly be the same guys you saw. I saw them at Shooters on Hwy 620. I had never seen them in there before, and I have been playing there for a while now on most Sunday afternoons. And your right about the gray haired guy walking a full circuit to find a house cue. I agree that the whole show was funny as hell. I kinda wished I had stuck arround to see them try to work the evening crowd. :grin:
 
Joe, the question is, how are they ripping anyone off.

If I walk in wasted drunk to your pool room and ask you to play for money, and you say yes... Who's ripping who off? Doesn't matter who wins. If you fall in the trap, you are just as guilty. Why would you rip off a drunk guy? Or someone who doesn't play as good? Or whatever... Point being, if you fall in a hustlers trap, you were trying to rip them off as well.

I think there is a lot of truth in this post.

Told my friend a farrier about the guy next store who had a top ranked cutting horse (a quarter horse that cuts one cow out of the herd) that a fellow offerred my neighbor $50,000.00 for his horse. Farrier said it was a two fool deal. "What is that," I asked. First guy was fool for offerring, second guy was a fool for not taking it. Seems there are a lot of two fool deals in life.
 
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