was this a fair matchup?

L

lawful777

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The other night after a local tournament, I decided to test my speed and see how far my practicing had come. Not a regular gambler I decided to play a small set for $20.00. Not too much for many but given the player and match, a little out of my comfort zone. Here is the setup.

Me- B player (strong B, have beaten A players a fair amount of times)
My opponent - A (have beaten him in 8ball probably 4 out of the last 10 tournament matchups.

The race: 6 (nine ball) Spot: me, Call 7 and the Breaks.

We are both stronger 9 ball players than 8 although probably play more 8 in tournaments/leagues.

The outcome. He won, 6-4. We both shot about 75% of our top speed with many of my breaks going dry due to slow cloths/humidity and poor execution. No 9BB's and no B&R's (still working on them).

I have been playing pretty strong lately and winning my share of tournaments. My goal is to be a strong A player for our region and also a contender at larger tournaments. Although I didn't win, I felt under the circumstances that I stayed with him. Given that the breaks weren't on my side and I used the call 7 on only 1 winning game, I think it was fairly close.

My question is this, given the above info. does it appear that I was totally outmatched, did this spot help or was there a different spot I could have asked for that would have given me a little closer race? I am new to the spot, so any advice on what weight a strong B player should be getting from an A player would be helpful in future endeavers....Thanks again,

Happy Shooting.
 
lawful777 said:
The other night after a local tournament, I decided to test my speed and see how far my practicing had come. Not a regular gambler I decided to play a small set for $20.00. Not too much for many but given the player and match, a little out of my comfort zone. Here is the setup.

Me- B player (strong B, have beaten A players a fair amount of times)
My opponent - A (have beaten him in 8ball probably 4 out of the last 10 tournament matchups.

The race: 6 (nine ball) Spot: me, Call 7 and the Breaks.

We are both stronger 9 ball players than 8 although probably play more 8 in tournaments/leagues.

The outcome. He won, 6-4. We both shot about 75% of our top speed with many of my breaks going dry due to slow cloths/humidity and poor execution. No 9BB's and no B&R's (still working on them).

I have been playing pretty strong lately and winning my share of tournaments. My goal is to be a strong A player for our region and also a contender at larger tournaments. Although I didn't win, I felt under the circumstances that I stayed with him. Given that the breaks weren't on my side and I used the call 7 on only 1 winning game, I think it was fairly close.

My question is this, given the above info. does it appear that I was totally outmatched, did this spot help or was there a different spot I could have asked for that would have given me a little closer race? I am new to the spot, so any advice on what weight a strong B player should be getting from an A player would be helpful in future endeavers....Thanks again,

Happy Shooting.
Click to expand...



Six to four isn't unbalanced enough to say the spot was wrong, can't really say it was fair after one short race either. You didn't break and run so unless you were finishing your first inning after making a ball on the break with a good safety the breaks might have been a handicap. On the other hand if he can break and run a fair percentage of the time then keeping the breaks away from him was an advantage.

All the statistics you have posted here are in line with standard variance which means that the numbers alone don't indicate even who the better player is.

Hu
 
Thanks Hu,

Those were kind of my feelings. The matched seemed to go back and forth. I did feel a bit handicapped by my breaking as he usually got a shot or good safe off my breaks. On the other hand as you mentioned he CAN break and run well, so at least it kept him from those. Not sure if I will play him for the same spot quite yet but I thought it was a good judge for what is to come. Thanks again for the reply, awesome.

J

PS, any helpful advice for a solid 9ball break? THanks!
 
lawful777 said:
PS, any helpful advice for a solid 9ball break? THanks!
Click to expand...

Well most all of the pros I see on TV use the side break from the rail and a few years back I started using it. Although it was a little awkward at first, due to always breaking with my hand on the table versus the rail, I have become very comfortable with it and have had a lot of success. There are many places to read up on this break such as here at AZ http://www.azbilliards.com/buddyhall/buddy7.php. Just remember don't forget to practice, practice, practice!

For those who don't want to click the link here is what Buddy Hall says:

The Nine Ball Break Shot

Many top players will tell you that the break shot is the most important shot in Nine Ball. Control the break and you control the table. Control the table and you control the game. Here are some suggestions on how to approach this shot.

First, understand the importance of a good rack. Make certain the balls are frozen together without gaps, particularly at the front of the rack. A loose rack reacts sluggishly and will not give you the action you need to have positive results. If the balls won’t freeze up try brushing the table in the area of the rack to remove dirt and put down a new spot if the old one is worn or dimpled.

The first break should be from the area of the side rail. Aim to hit the one ball as squarely as possible. That means square to the cueball, not the table. You want to hit the rack so that the cueball stops dead in its tracks or bounces back off the rack in the exact track it took ti get there. (If you strike the one ball square to the table, head-on, it will reflect off to the side and will not impart maximum energy to the rack.) The reasons you hit a nine ball rack from the side are numerous. First, it gives the one ball a path to escape and fall into the side pocket. Second, it distributes the force of the break a little more strongly on one side of the rack than the other. This makes it easier for the cueball to overcome the initial inertial resistance of the rack. Third, it gives the nine ball a sideways impetus which helps carry it towards the corner pocket.

But the nine ball break is a fickle shot. Many times the above-described break just doesn’t want to work on your table on that particular day. If you don’t get positive results from this basic break technique, then change it! Start moving the cueball along the length of the headstring until you find a point that ‘works’. Experiment with english. Sometimes you may have to violate the basic laws and apply bottom english to the cueball. Here you will aim to hit the rack square to the table so that the cueball rockets to the side rail and back into the rack where you are hoping for a happy collision with the nine.

So start out hitting ‘em hard and square with centerball from the side rail. But if that does not work, keep experimenting with position and english. Some combination is bound to work!
 
not the best for nine ball advice

lawful777 said:
Thanks Hu,

Those were kind of my feelings. The matched seemed to go back and forth. I did feel a bit handicapped by my breaking as he usually got a shot or good safe off my breaks. On the other hand as you mentioned he CAN break and run well, so at least it kept him from those. Not sure if I will play him for the same spot quite yet but I thought it was a good judge for what is to come. Thanks again for the reply, awesome.

J

PS, any helpful advice for a solid 9ball break? THanks!
Click to expand...


You didn't specify if you were playing on a bar table or nine footer. On bar tables I sometimes get better results taking a little off the break. Humidity and dirty balls as you mention usually dictate a harder break though. If neither of the standard near rail positions are working I sometimes drop back to a little over a diamond off of the head rail even with one of the kitchen lines and just smash the rack hitting the one ball squarely. Decent control of the cue ball like this and maximum force into the break. Breaking off of the head rail lets me put a little more movement and power into my break. I have found one-half to one ball off of the center line of the table to be an effective place to break from when the edge breaks aren't working too. Trouble is by the time I try all of the things that might work the match is over! Try the things I listed in the order I listed them in practice to see what works for you on those tables. Sometimes all it takes is backing off 10-20% on your speed.

The caveat about all of my nine ball breaking advice is that I do my best to avoid nine ball. I'll play it in a tournament but if I think the other person is a decent player I always choose ten ball over nine ball in head's up matches. The best nine ball players tend to make a wing ball while controlling the one ball and cue ball. I rarely do. I make the wing ball pretty often but rarely control the cue ball and one ball as well as some do. If a search on nine ball breaks doesn't turn up anything you might start a thread asking specifically about nine ball breaks.

Hu
 
you posted while I was typing

rburgoyne said:
For those who don't want to click the link here is what Buddy Hall says:

The Nine Ball Break Shot

Many top players will tell you that the break shot is the most important shot in Nine Ball. Control the break and you control the table. Control the table and you control the game. Here are some suggestions on how to approach this shot.

First, understand the importance of a good rack. Make certain the balls are frozen together without gaps, particularly at the front of the rack. A loose rack reacts sluggishly and will not give you the action you need to have positive results. If the balls won’t freeze up try brushing the table in the area of the rack to remove dirt and put down a new spot if the old one is worn or dimpled.

The first break should be from the area of the side rail. Aim to hit the one ball as squarely as possible. That means square to the cueball, not the table. You want to hit the rack so that the cueball stops dead in its tracks or bounces back off the rack in the exact track it took ti get there. (If you strike the one ball square to the table, head-on, it will reflect off to the side and will not impart maximum energy to the rack.) The reasons you hit a nine ball rack from the side are numerous. First, it gives the one ball a path to escape and fall into the side pocket. Second, it distributes the force of the break a little more strongly on one side of the rack than the other. This makes it easier for the cueball to overcome the initial inertial resistance of the rack. Third, it gives the nine ball a sideways impetus which helps carry it towards the corner pocket.

But the nine ball break is a fickle shot. Many times the above-described break just doesn’t want to work on your table on that particular day. If you don’t get positive results from this basic break technique, then change it! Start moving the cueball along the length of the headstring until you find a point that ‘works’. Experiment with english. Sometimes you may have to violate the basic laws and apply bottom english to the cueball. Here you will aim to hit the rack square to the table so that the cueball rockets to the side rail and back into the rack where you are hoping for a happy collision with the nine.

So start out hitting ‘em hard and square with centerball from the side rail. But if that does not work, keep experimenting with position and english. Some combination is bound to work!
Click to expand...

Very good post! Buddy also says when all else fails smash hell out of the rack and hope for the best. It is a last resort but sometimes that is all you can do. I did feel better when I saw that even Buddy Hall has to resort to the "redneck special" break sometimes. :thumbup: :thumbup:

Hu
 
Your opponent gave you the nuts and outran it. The 8 ball no breaks sounds like a fair game. I cant believe you quit after the first set. You should have kept playing.
 
lawful777 said:
The other night after a local tournament, I decided to test my speed and see how far my practicing had come. Not a regular gambler I decided to play a small set for $20.00. Not too much for many but given the player and match, a little out of my comfort zone. Here is the setup.

Me- B player (strong B, have beaten A players a fair amount of times)
My opponent - A (have beaten him in 8ball probably 4 out of the last 10 tournament matchups.

The race: 6 (nine ball) Spot: me, Call 7 and the Breaks.

We are both stronger 9 ball players than 8 although probably play more 8 in tournaments/leagues.

The outcome. He won, 6-4. We both shot about 75% of our top speed with many of my breaks going dry due to slow cloths/humidity and poor execution. No 9BB's and no B&R's (still working on them).

I have been playing pretty strong lately and winning my share of tournaments. My goal is to be a strong A player for our region and also a contender at larger tournaments. Although I didn't win, I felt under the circumstances that I stayed with him. Given that the breaks weren't on my side and I used the call 7 on only 1 winning game, I think it was fairly close.

My question is this, given the above info. does it appear that I was totally outmatched, did this spot help or was there a different spot I could have asked for that would have given me a little closer race? I am new to the spot, so any advice on what weight a strong B player should be getting from an A player would be helpful in future endeavers....Thanks again,

Happy Shooting.
Click to expand...

a race to 6 is too short a race to see how you're coming along. especially when you consider that you only played the 1 set.

imo you should never play just 1 set. if your bank roll is low break it up if the guy you're playing is ok with that.

if you've got the patience for it you should play a cheap ahead set. maybe 5 ahead for $50 or something. if betting 50 is out of your comfort zone it won't be by the time you're done with the set. 5 ahead playing someone close to your speed could take a pretty long time
 
The breaks to a player who cant run out isnt as big of a spot as you think, and can cause mental breakdown when there are several dry breaks. The call 7 is about right though. If you play as close as you say, that was a fair game, that could have gone either way.
To make it a near lock, get the wild 7 and 8.
Chuck
 
Too short a race to make any judgement with confidence. Having the break may not lead to break and runs for you, but it keeps the break away from him. Just based on what you have said, I'd say you have the bes of the match up.
 
BillPorter said:
Too short a race to make any judgement with confidence. Having the break may not lead to break and runs for you, but it keeps the break away from him. Just based on what you have said, I'd say you have the bes of the match up.
Click to expand...

Breaking badly on a bar table can make the opponet look better than he is.
 
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