Bca vs Apa

[Scott Lee]

watchez...I never said, or even implied that Terry and Larry were saints...they AIN'T! LOL You may be right about Terry and Larry...but I will ask you this: would YOU post here, if you were them, based on what you and the other vocal minority consider their pet project? Bet not! I am the last person to say that the APA is all good. It isn't. That said, the APA has brought more new players into amateur pool, over the past 30 years, than all the other leagues put together. That counts for something, as we all want the sport to grow. I, like you, would love to see a sport where the best players make a decent income, WITHOUT having to gamble (gambling is fine, but it's a very tough way to make a living).

Respectfully,

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott - many of your points hold some water but your point that Larry and Terry are former pros and don't post here because of how people on this site treat pros is weak. Not many that post on this site even know anything about their past. It is the present and their current business that stops them or anyone from their organization from posting here.

Did you know that Louie Roberts was in the process of gathering information with an attorney to sue Larry and Terry at the time of his death?

 

[cuesmith]

watchez...I never said, or even implied that Terry and Larry were saints...they AIN'T! LOL You may be right about Terry and Larry...but I will ask you this: would YOU post here, if you were them, based on what you and the other vocal minority consider their pet project? Bet not! I am the last person to say that the APA is all good. It isn't. That said, the APA has brought more new players into amateur pool, over the past 30 years, than all the other leagues put together. That counts for something, as we all want the sport to grow. I, like you, would love to see a sport where the best players make a decent income, WITHOUT having to gamble (gambling is fine, but it's a very tough way to make a living).

Respectfully,

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott,

You keep mentioning that the APA brings all these new players in to the sport. The problem with your logic is that just because teams are forced to recruit new players because they have to, after being split up due to the "23

rule", doesn't mean they are interested in pool, want to play and intend to keep playing APA. In my experience it's just the opposite. They play a session, or two sometimes but seldom stay. Usually they're only playing because a

friend appeals to them to help them out because they need a player to fill the roster. These aren't people who are there willingly really, most of the time they're pressured by friends or co-workers and play only as long as feel

they have to in order to help their friends. I don't see that as a positive. You're either a pool players or you're not! Bringing in more people just to line Terry & Larry's pockets is a vile, meaningless statistic. If they were interested

in playing pool, they would have found a venue on their own, without having to be coerced into it. Sure a few stick, but the vast majority do not and leave with the feeling they've been fleeced. I can't consider this "growth" for

the industry, only for the amount of money the Pair put into their pockets! This is much worse than not bringing the new players in. IMHO

 

[Scott Lee]

Sherm...We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott,

You keep mentioning that the APA brings all these new players in to the sport. The problem with your logic is that just because teams are forced to recruit new players because they have to, after being split up due to the "23

rule", doesn't mean they are interested in pool, want to play and intend to keep playing APA. In my experience it's just the opposite. They play a session, or two sometimes but seldom stay. Usually they're only playing because a

friend appeals to them to help them out because they need a player to fill the roster. These aren't people who are there willingly really, most of the time they're pressured by friends or co-workers and play only as long as feel

they have to in order to help their friends. I don't see that as a positive. You're either a pool players or you're not! Bringing in more people just to line Terry & Larry's pockets is a vile, meaningless statistic. If they were interested

in playing pool, they would have found a venue on their own, without having to be coerced into it. Sure a few stick, but the vast majority do not and leave with the feeling they've been fleeced. I can't consider this "growth" for

the industry, only for the amount of money the Pair put into their pockets! This is much worse than not bringing the new players in. IMHO

 

[cuesmith]

Sherm...We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Fine with me Scott, as I previously said, I usually agree with you. We just don't see this issue the same way. I'm fine with dropping the subject altogether. More power to you buddy!

 

[TheBook]

Scott,

I usually agree with most of your posts, but this one is so far off.

Anyone anywhere can do the math and see that most of the money APA takes in stays with the people who own the league.

Where i'm at there is 500 teams. 500 teams x 5 players = 2500 players each week. Now apa here charges 7 to play. So that's 2500 X 7 = 17500.

17500 PER WEEK. 12 weeks per session and we are at $210,000 per session. Three sessions per year = 630k

They send 14 teams to vegas every year, 4000 per team = 56000.

Payouts during the year here are about 60k a year.

so 56k and 60k = 116k

incoming 630-116 outgoing leaves 514,000. Now corp apa will take a cut to help pay for nationals, so lets say they take 150k, that still leave 350+ for those who run things.

APA is for growing teams by raising your skill level so they can bring in more cash.

Then to top it off they're national event is JUNK like i said before.

cbi

That is just here,

Your area is a bargain. We pay $8 per player and our LO only pays out $3000 to the team (correct only one team) that wins the end of year tournament to go to Vegas. It is not a small league and the money paid back at the end of each session averages about $11 per player.

Heard rumors that the LO has the league for sale. He wants over $3,000,000. YES not a misprint. 3 million plus.

 

[JDB]

Your area is a bargain. We pay $8 per player and our LO only pays out $3000 to the team (correct only one team) that wins the end of year tournament to go to Vegas. It is not a small league and the money paid back at the end of each session averages about $11 per player.

Heard rumors that the LO has the league for sale. He wants over $3,000,000. YES not a misprint. 3 million plus.

LOL; you are either from an extremely large area (Terry Justice type area) or your LO is not very bright.

The last I heard you can expect approximately $1,500 - $2,000 (very high), per team, as a sales price.

Therefore, in order to get $3M, you would need between 1,500 - 2,000 teams.

Terry Justice, which is why I mentioned him above, is the LO in Baltimore, MD, and he has the largest league of any LO, based on what I have been told. Terry has around 1,800 teams last I heard. Therefore, unless your LO has this type of area in size, he is dreaming.

 

[sunnyday]

Scott Lee,

I don't know but saying Terry, Larry and Renee used to be professional pool player is stretching the truth a bit.

As far as I am aware is that Larry used to be a very strong player, Terry was a strong short stop and Renee, she is a true APA recruite... I don't know like SL 2? Renee being a former professional pool player is a news to me...

S.

 

[SoniDJ]

Well I never played BCA because we have APA here or a cash league which is cool.
I would play any game as long as I get to stare into those long lost eyes of the racker!
Just love playing and hangin with friends, gets your mind offf everyday pressures.

 

[gunzby]

Scott,

You keep mentioning that the APA brings all these new players in to the sport. The problem with your logic is that just because teams are forced to recruit new players because they have to, after being split up due to the "23

rule", doesn't mean they are interested in pool, want to play and intend to keep playing APA. In my experience it's just the opposite. They play a session, or two sometimes but seldom stay. Usually they're only playing because a

friend appeals to them to help them out because they need a player to fill the roster. These aren't people who are there willingly really, most of the time they're pressured by friends or co-workers and play only as long as feel

they have to in order to help their friends. I don't see that as a positive. You're either a pool players or you're not! Bringing in more people just to line Terry & Larry's pockets is a vile, meaningless statistic. If they were interested

in playing pool, they would have found a venue on their own, without having to be coerced into it. Sure a few stick, but the vast majority do not and leave with the feeling they've been fleeced. I can't consider this "growth" for

the industry, only for the amount of money the Pair put into their pockets! This is much worse than not bringing the new players in. IMHO

I agree that a lot do not stick with the league that they are in, but they do give it a try and that is worth something. I don't see them agreeing to try playing as being coerced and I doubt they leave feeling fleeced after they get shaken down for seven dollars.

Lets say the majority only play on league night and before that they only bothered playing once or twice a year. Now figure one out of twenty end up finding out they absolutely love playing and stick with it for years.

I didn't find out that I love this game through any league, but I certainly wouldn't feel duped if I had and I have a hard time believing that many others would either.

 

[thrash attack]

Scott Lee,

I don't know but saying Terry, Larry and Renee used to be professional pool player is stretching the truth a bit.

As far as I am aware is that Larry used to be a very strong player, Terry was a strong short stop and Renee, she is a true APA recruite... I don't know like SL 2? Renee being a former professional pool player is a news to me...

S.

That's a nice pool in your avatar. how many memberships did it cost?

 

[gunzby]

Well I never played BCA because we have APA here or a cash league which is cool.
I would play any game as long as I get to stare into those long lost eyes of the racker!
Just love playing and hangin with friends, gets your mind offf everyday pressures.

I don't have a nearby BCA league to play in either. If I did I would try out BCA.

Considering all of the horror stories I hear on here I must be spoiled. Our LO has three Vegas qualifiers a year (I may be wrong, but if I am it is more than three). This is held at the Expo with 80 Diamond BBs. She gives $8k p/team and used to send the 2nd place team to Valley Forge when they had APA tournaments there and gave the 2nd place team money as well.

 

[TimKrazyMon]

Yeah, KT is "grandfathered" into the old system of 3 Vegas tourneys a year. So is Raleigh APA if I'm not mistaken.

Also, not sure how far a drive it'd be, but there is a BCA league in Albemarle.

 

[fish on]

APA sponsers US Amateur Championship

Judges have the BCA ahead on the scorecards after round one.
Round 2 [DING!] :thumbup:

APA gives the players who want to play against the non-touring pros two opportunities to show their muscle!

The U.S. Amateur and the APA Masters for Real strong players read the rules on APA website for both!!!
poolplayers.com

 

[Maniac]

ridinda9...Wow, at just 34 posts you have it all figured out. Amazing!

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever seen on this site in the 5 years I've been on here. Inferring that being an AZB member with MANY posts is going to automatically give you insight as to what is really going on in the pool world.

Scott, if I was a gambling man, I'd bet the house that there are many people who have never even heard of AZB that have it just as much "figured out" as you do. Having an account here with numerous posts does not give one "Pool Genius" status. Come down off of that high-horse and give EVERYONE their due opinions.

Maniac

 

[ridinda9]

ridinda9...Wow, at just 34 posts you have it all figured out. Amazing!



Boy, I'll say...nuff said!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott , Scott , Scott
Amazing ! 34 posts on this forum . . . what a newbie to pool I must be .
Only been playing the game since I bought my first home table in '77

only been playing in Leagues since '85

only been owning and/or managing bars & poolrooms that host leagues
since '85

been playing APA over 10 years in the 'bad' region

travel 600 miles north to visit my daughter & grandson . League play is
secondary to that , but it happens that the league there is definitely
run on a less personal and more professional basis. Love to play in the
'good' region

yep, screwed up the math on 10k v. 15k. oops . mia culpa

unbeknownst to you , the APA operator I'm referring to (and no , I'm not
going to openly out her in this forum) routinely writes local by-laws contrary to APA national policy , and hands down rulings contrary to
national policy. It takes an awful lot of correspondence with St. L
to keep her reigned in. There has , in the past , been civil litigation
between her and national. She prevailed and kept her franchise.

And I don't have to tell anything to the WPBA players. I have nuttin but respek 4 them . My statement was that WPBA is a cash cow for the
OWNERS (again , Terry & Larry)

 

[APA Operator]

My suggestion to the OP is give it a try. As someone mentioned, the local management of any league is what makes it a good or bad experience for the players. Nobody here (unless they play in the same APA league as you) knows as much about your local APA league as you do. Similarly, nobody here knows very much about your local BCAPL league. I'm willing to bet that without doing some investigation first, the BCAPL staff here can't even tell you what the rules are in your local BCAPL league, or how many players are on a team, or whether there's a handicap system in place. I bet they CAN give you that information about your APA league. Still, that's not what makes it worth your time and money. The experience you have is what should drive your buy/don't buy decision, and you can only get that experience for yourself.

Don't let anyone here talk you into or out of anything - despite how matter-of-fact they may come off, they really know nothing of value about your local leagues. Just watch how many of them jump on me simply because I am an APA operator, even though I just advised you to give your local BCAPL a try.

 

[ridinda9]

My suggestion to the OP is give it a try. As someone mentioned, the local management of any league is what makes it a good or bad experience for the players. Nobody here (unless they play in the same APA league as you) knows as much about your local APA league as you do. Similarly, nobody here knows very much about your local BCAPL league. I'm willing to bet that without doing some investigation first, the BCAPL staff here can't even tell you what the rules are in your local BCAPL league, or how many players are on a team, or whether there's a handicap system in place. I bet they CAN give you that information about your APA league. Still, that's not what makes it worth your time and money. The experience you have is what should drive your buy/don't buy decision, and you can only get that experience for yourself.

Don't let anyone here talk you into or out of anything - despite how matter-of-fact they may come off, they really know nothing of value about your local leagues. Just watch how many of them jump on me simply because I am an APA operator, even though I just advised you to give your local BCAPL a try.

first , I hope that Scott doesn't jump you for only having 73 posts.
wecome!
Glad to see that even the other APA operators realize that local operators
make or break the players experience.
May you rule with the wisdom & fairness of a Solomon.

 

[sunnyday]

That's a nice pool in your avatar. how many memberships did it cost?

How much did your black flag cost? My avatar cost just as much as yours!

That is not my pool... it's a joke. Did you read the homonym comment with the pool picture? It's my dry humor about every time when you do a search on pool, picture of swimming pool pops up! (Instead of billiard pool)

I don't know what a pool like that would cost... a million in membership? Or how about 15 years serving in US Navy?

Try picking on something more legit!

S.

 

[Scott Lee]

Sunny...Reread my post. I spoke of Terry Bell/Texas Terry, and Larry Hubbart/The Iceman. I never even mentioned Renee, who does not even play pool. You do not know your history if you think Terry Bell was a shortstop. Ask around a little. I think you'll find that back in the day, Terry was a STRONG pro. Ask Sigel if Hubbart could play...since he taught Mike, and took him on the road!

You do realize that I am a HUGE supporter of Mark and everything he does, don't you?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott Lee,

I don't know but saying Terry, Larry and Renee used to be professional pool player is stretching the truth a bit.

As far as I am aware is that Larry used to be a very strong player, Terry was a strong short stop and Renee, she is a true APA recruite... I don't know like SL 2? Renee being a former professional pool player is a news to me...

S.

 

[Scott Lee]

Maniac...Okay, I'll bite on the small post number comment. However, everything else I stated in my post to ridinda9 is absolutely true, and he/she has NO clue about how things really are. In truth there are likely posters with thousands of posts who are clueless too...I'm not one of them. I apologize for the "34 posts" comment, but I stand by everything else I said.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever seen on this site in the 5 years I've been on here. Inferring that being an AZB member with MANY posts is going to automatically give you insight as to what is really going on in the pool world.

Scott, if I was a gambling man, I'd bet the house that there are many people who have never even heard of AZB that have it just as much "figured out" as you do. Having an account here with numerous posts does not give one "Pool Genius" status. Come down off of that high-horse and give EVERYONE their due opinions.

Maniac