A certain "vibration" that is inherent to the construction and woods used indeed contributes to feedback but there can also be unwanted vibration that masks what the cue is trying to tell you, right? I would consider this undesirable.
Barioni Cues
- Thread starter Barioni Cues
- Start date
If there's unwanted vibration masking the good vibration, then either it's not a good cue or something is wrong with the cue. In that case, a new cue or repair is in order as it's beyond the point of tuning with a bumper. Most cuemakers design the bumper into the cue rather than just fit one on to protect the butt. In old cue catalogs from Brunswick & such, bumpers were not offered as protective agents. They were offered as "noise suppressors". Suppressing noise is suppressing vibration. Even back then they understood the harmonics of a cue & the bumper was one of the first components added/utilized to tune a cue.
That's very interesting Eric, thanks for that. Do you know if anyone has experimented with using rubber in the joint for the same reason, i.e. to tune the cue?
has John Barioni posted on this thread recently?
Yeah, some guys have used o-rings in the joint. I'm not sure of the purpose or how effective it is. But I have seen it.
Most of the tuning is done with a ferrule. The hardness, flexibility, compression strength, etc. of a ferrule makes a difference and as such, we have endless varieties.
cork shaft with chewing gum tip... must try that ^^
generally speaking... low deflection shaft is crap hhh 
generally speaking... low deflection shaft is crap hhh
doesn't anyone speak english anymore? what's up with all this esl bs everyone's typing now days
napisao sam :
uopćeno govoreći... špice sa malom defleksijom su sranje
probaj ti napisati nešto na hrvatskom a da bude gramatički točno hehehe
try google translate... & no offense, i'm just joking :withstupid:
you have to press 1 for english nowadays :grin:
napisao sam :
uopćeno govoreći... špice sa malom defleksijom su sranje
probaj ti napisati nešto na hrvatskom a da bude gramatički točno hehehe
try google translate... & no offense, i'm just joking :withstupid:
is it russian?
no...croatian ^^
lol i'm just kidding
On a more serious note
Back in the good Ole college days. In the days of the original French champions, I actually put (experimented with a rubber Tip. It would rocket balls at the pockets-but anything outside of exactly dead center,It was uncontrollable. mark
Back in the good Ole college days. In the days of the original French champions, I actually put (experimented with a rubber Tip. It would rocket balls at the pockets-but anything outside of exactly dead center,It was uncontrollable. mark
Noise and vibration suppression is more important than folks think
Eric:
Very good stuff. It should also be pointed out that the "noise suppression" was intended to do so when the vibrations reached the rear of the cue. Those schooled as musical instrument luthiers know that vibrations, once set up, tend to "ring" and bounce back and forth down the length of the material conducive to those vibrations. To a large extent in a musical instrument, you want this sympathetic "ringing" of the vibrations -- that is what gives the instrument its sound, afterall. But there is a point you don't want this ringing to continue. Those with perfect pitch (and those familiar with acoustics) know that the sound of the note F# (F sharp) has a sort of "buzzy" timbre (no matter the instrument that sounds it -- piano, guitar, wind, wood, brass, doesn't matter). At the other end of the perfect pitch tonal spectrum, the sound of the note Eb (E flat) has a very mellow, buttery tone, again, no matter the instrument that sounded it. In a musical instrument, you don't want the sympathetic ringing of a previously struck F# to drown out an Eb that was subsequently struck, so some noise suppression is built into every musical instrument's construction, in some way/shape/fashion.
In a cue, you want the grip hand to receive the vibrations from the tip -- that is the cue "talking to you." But most of the time, you don't want sympathetic ringing bouncing up and down the length of the cue -- that would be an annoying noise, sounding like a very weird tuning fork, like something's wrong with the cue.
So vibration feedback to the grip hand is a good thing, but just one pass of these vibrations are necessary. That LimbSaver actually works in minimizing those vibrations traveling up and down the cue.
This "vibration feedback to the grip hand" thing is why I personally prefer wood-to-wood joints (no matter the pin, although I do have a preference for Radial pins). I'm not a fan of those "big block" stainless steel joints *at all*. Those big blocks of steel in the middle of the cue act as vibration governors, preventing that hit feedback from getting to your grip hand. Basically, the nice flow of continuous wood (that which carries those vibrations from the hit) from tip to your grip hand is disturbed by that big dense block of stainless steel. I'd rather have a pin in the center of the wood, and let the two wood surfaces (of the shaft and the butt) mate up directly with each other. However, I can see why some folks like the hit of a cue with that big block of stainless steel in the middle of it -- the cue has a very "mellow" hit, where none of those vibrations reach the grip hand. (And some misconstrue that "mellow" hit as being a "stiff" hit -- which is not the case at all. The closest analogy I can come up with is the difference in ride between an old Cadillac leisure car, and an economy car. The Cadillac cushions you from feeling the road, while you feel every little bump in the road in the economy car. Car-wise, most would naturally prefer the ride of the Cadillac to the economy car, so this analogy isn't well suited to cues because it's a different thing, but I used it to show what I mean by a "mellow" hit offered by the vibration-dampening qualities of stainless steel.)
Hope this is helpful info,
-Sean
Eric:
Very good stuff. It should also be pointed out that the "noise suppression" was intended to do so when the vibrations reached the rear of the cue. Those schooled as musical instrument luthiers know that vibrations, once set up, tend to "ring" and bounce back and forth down the length of the material conducive to those vibrations. To a large extent in a musical instrument, you want this sympathetic "ringing" of the vibrations -- that is what gives the instrument its sound, afterall. But there is a point you don't want this ringing to continue. Those with perfect pitch (and those familiar with acoustics) know that the sound of the note F# (F sharp) has a sort of "buzzy" timbre (no matter the instrument that sounds it -- piano, guitar, wind, wood, brass, doesn't matter). At the other end of the perfect pitch tonal spectrum, the sound of the note Eb (E flat) has a very mellow, buttery tone, again, no matter the instrument that sounded it. In a musical instrument, you don't want the sympathetic ringing of a previously struck F# to drown out an Eb that was subsequently struck, so some noise suppression is built into every musical instrument's construction, in some way/shape/fashion.
In a cue, you want the grip hand to receive the vibrations from the tip -- that is the cue "talking to you." But most of the time, you don't want sympathetic ringing bouncing up and down the length of the cue -- that would be an annoying noise, sounding like a very weird tuning fork, like something's wrong with the cue.
So vibration feedback to the grip hand is a good thing, but just one pass of these vibrations are necessary. That LimbSaver actually works in minimizing those vibrations traveling up and down the cue.
This "vibration feedback to the grip hand" thing is why I personally prefer wood-to-wood joints (no matter the pin, although I do have a preference for Radial pins). I'm not a fan of those "big block" stainless steel joints *at all*. Those big blocks of steel in the middle of the cue act as vibration governors, preventing that hit feedback from getting to your grip hand. Basically, the nice flow of continuous wood (that which carries those vibrations from the hit) from tip to your grip hand is disturbed by that big dense block of stainless steel. I'd rather have a pin in the center of the wood, and let the two wood surfaces (of the shaft and the butt) mate up directly with each other. However, I can see why some folks like the hit of a cue with that big block of stainless steel in the middle of it -- the cue has a very "mellow" hit, where none of those vibrations reach the grip hand. (And some misconstrue that "mellow" hit as being a "stiff" hit -- which is not the case at all. The closest analogy I can come up with is the difference in ride between an old Cadillac leisure car, and an economy car. The Cadillac cushions you from feeling the road, while you feel every little bump in the road in the economy car. Car-wise, most would naturally prefer the ride of the Cadillac to the economy car, so this analogy isn't well suited to cues because it's a different thing, but I used it to show what I mean by a "mellow" hit offered by the vibration-dampening qualities of stainless steel.)
Hope this is helpful info,
-Sean