One Dollar

[Koop]

Koopster, I like the way you think, and Mike is perfect to do this kind of thing. Well said.

I'm sorry that the pros have not been approachable in some of the arenas. That is surprising. Wow! I guess times have changed since I've been on that doggone tournament trail.

Hey Jennie,

What I meant was other sports. No one is more approachable than your man...make sure you tell him that Koop says hi and I want to see you guys north of DC some time soon

 

[JAM]

Hey Jennie,

What I meant was other sports. No one is more approachable than your man...make sure you tell him that Koop says hi and I want to see you guys north of DC some time soon

Whew! I am relieved. It's been a while since I've been at a tournament, and to think the pro pool players were not blending in with the fans and pool enthusiasts was disconcerting to me.

We're heading up north soon. In fact, I can't wait to take a bite of one of Regina's meatballs. I want to see the new room, but more importantly, it will be fun to see you again and the rest of the New England pool gang.

 

[Koop]

Whew! I am relieved. It's been a while since I've been at a tournament, and to think the pro pool players were not blending in with the fans and pool enthusiasts was disconcerting to me.

We're heading up north soon. In fact, I can't wait to take a bite of one of Regina's meatballs. I want to see the new room, but more importantly, it will be fun to see you again and the rest of the New England pool gang.

Make sure you let me know when you're coming so I can meet up with you and buy you guys a drink.

 

[Mainplayer]

I think that it is very important for us pro's to be associated with the leagues. Although the leagues don't think that we would be beneficial, I personal think that we could be. It would give the leagues a chance to brand each individual in the sport for there own line of products and so on. There would be so many things that could be done, thats just one of them.

I really like Corey Dueul's idea, and that starting up our own league. They problem I see with that is that, in my opinion, a lot of the players don't want to put in the time needed to make something like that succeed. A lot of these players that can make something happen are thinking old school. This is 2010 and we need to use the resources that present themselves, such as leagues, facebook, etc. Its time to start using these resources and working together to build the game.

 

[JAM]

I think that it is very important for us pro's to be associated with the leagues. Although the leagues don't think that we would be beneficial, I personal think that we could be. It would give the leagues a chance to brand each individual in the sport for there own line of products and so on. There would be so many things that could be done, thats just one of them.

I really like Corey Dueul's idea, and that starting up our own league. They problem I see with that is that, in my opinion, a lot of the players don't want to put in the time needed to make something like that succeed. A lot of these players that can make something happen are thinking old school. This is 2010 and we need to use the resources that present themselves, such as leagues, facebook, etc. Its time to start using these resources and working together to build the game.

That is a very refreshing take on what can make things happen, Mike. Bravo to you. The social media outlets are a great resource for sure. It figures that a young pro like yourself would think about this as a means to elevate the sport. Old-school ways of thinking are now obsolete. Heck, I know some people who don't own a landline phone anymore. That used to be the way of communication, the telephone. With the advent of Internet technologies, there's a great untapped territory. Great ideas.

BTW, put a face on your avatar, so we know who you are. I love your new website. Your name is starting to get thrown about now, so ride that tide while it's going strong. :wink:

 

[bfdlad]

OK, I am shocked that nobody seems to have suggested a different way to do this. I am a little old fashioned as far as the pros go and I feel that aspiring pro should pay their dues and not just be handed $$ to go to events. If a person wants to be a pro golfer, tennis, footballer etc, they have to pay their own $$ for Coaching, lessons, travel to get on the map. Why should pro pool be any different?? Earn your right to play as a pro and go through the ranks.

As far as the Dollar fund to promote pool and get the pro tour more visible and give more people a chance I think you just need to hold more tourneys. With $250k thats at least 5 good events. This will give people a chance to make a living and compete on a regular basis. All just my opinion.

 

[Koop]

BTW, put a face on your avatar, so we know who you are. I love your new website. Your name is starting to get thrown about now, so ride that tide while it's going strong. :wink:

...and add a sig line too. Hell, you just snapped off the Empire tournament and took out a seemingly unstoppable Mike Sigel. No small feat man.

 

[bfdlad]

Also Mark Griffin should post something on here as he has the USA Pool Leagues that he is building. The USAPL takes like 50cents per player per week to hold more events. He would be able to answer this better.

 

[Black-Balled]

Just a dollar...

I don't have a problem with a dollar being withheld for a donation in general, but the fact is that the $ doesn't necessarily go to where it is intended/ claimed to be going.

Take the n.u.t.s. (go'head!) where did the $ go? Pfffft.

SSDD...

 

[Koop]

Just a dollar...

I don't have a problem with a dollar being withheld for a donation in general, but the fact is that the $ doesn't necessarily go to where it is intended/ claimed to be going.

Take the n.u.t.s. (go'head!) where did the $ go? Pfffft.

SSDD...

True man...where did that money go? Does anyone even know how much was there, if any?

 

[greyghost]

Some of you really crack me up!

To not want to give a dollar! Come on! You are acting as if it will kill you to donate 1 dollar to pro pool.

If pro pool had some organization it would be great to donate a dollar in some form or another. To help with the pro events or players who need help getting to events ect.

Also to help aspiring young players to make it to the pro level. Heck I would give a dollar a week if it helped the pro system work.

Remember this is the sport we love! So its up to us to help it grow!

I know plenty of pro players who give back to the sport in some form or another, so saying they don`t is pure heresay!

And if 1 dollar is going to kill ya then sure don`t give!





Sheesh!!! People loosen up!!!



H.P.



Jam ,if that pro player you speak of is Keith, I know of 1 young player who would love his autographed pic. Thanks

Tho I'm a big proponent of using that dollar to sponsor a pro tour....I can definately see some not wanting to give it based on merit rather than the actual $.....many of the so called pros don't really do much for the sport (of course some do everything they can)....but with out them being unified on one front, some believe that it would just be a big waste....and that has been proven in the past so in a way I don't blame people for thinking that way....

you know how it is....fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me....

-Grey Ghost-

 

[JoeyA]

The Trilogy

Thanks for all the great replies. Some are very eye-opening to me.

I guess I'm looking at it from another angle in the big picture. A player I know well has gone to charity events, given free autographed photos to hundreds of people only to see them for sale on eBay, the asking price actually being less than it cost for us to produce them. When he sees a young player showing an interest in pool at events, he always spends time with them, playing a game, showing them how to hold the cue, even paying them one dollar for every ball they pocket successfully. He loves children, since he has none of his own.

The organization part of this equation is definitely key. In my brief time seeing how the professional pool world operates, the organizations that came forth failed. This happened for a variety of reasons, which one can just do a search in this forum and read the plethora of opinions.

It is hard for the pro players to give back to amateurs when there's tens of thousands of amateurs and less than, say, 25 pro players in the United States today. I'm not even sure if there's 25 actual professional players anymore.

If the APA is helping the WPBA, that's great. It is no wonder they had been able to afford ESPN all these years. That now makes sense to me. Heard it through the grapevine -- AND THIS IS HEARSAY -- that it costs $20,000 to have ESPN broadcast a pool happening.

It is kind of interesting to hear all the varied thoughts on this topic. I hope others will chime in.

JAM,
It is not my job to tell professional players how they can give back to the sport......... BUT,
All professional players could consider making YOUTUBE type instructional videos, detailing specific aspects of their craft. This could develop a fan base, increase sponsor's awareness of that pro player etc.

Pro players could offer a free half hour clinic at events where they are located. This could be advertised in advance to league players who then might be more interested in supporting said event.

Pro players could spend more time courting the news media. This doesn't need explanation.

Pro players could spend more time networking on Facebook and such, using today's technology to reach more players. Some pro players like Max Eberle are already doing this with his Pool Boot Camp and updates to his fan base. Others utilize FB in other ways. The problem with all of this, is that it requires CONSISTENT EFFORT. In order to benefit from any of these efforts, the pro player has to see the big picture and that is that you don't get something for nothing. You have to EARN your way in this world and unfortunately, devoting your life to playing and excelling at pool, does not qualify as an entitlement for any player. This statement shouldn't be construed as a swipe at any pro player. I empathize and sympathize with the pro player's situation more than most and would like to see all of them to be paid fairly for what they do. We just don't have the television advertising dollars to support our industry the way it should be supported.

That being said, POOL SPONSORS, NEED PRO players to sell more of their products. They need their sponsored pro players out there at every event possible (amateur and professional events) helping to sell their products.

Sponsorship is short-lived when there is only one winner in each deal. I don't know how much time it takes to do these things and I know it is a pain to put on free clinics and such but I know that there has to be two winners in every deal for it to be a good one.

In addition to the overflow of suggestions , pro players need to carry themselves professionally IN MATCHES, in PUBLIC and PRIVATELY. Yes, I don't think you can be a professional without being one in all three.:idea2:

It appears that some of the pro players are forging ahead with marketing plans of their own and I think that's a good trend. Some of the ideas are inexpensive or FREE, just costing some of the pro player's time and thought. I can't guarantee an immediate return on the investment of their time but I can guarantee that these things are a step in the right direction.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I personally believe that the dollar thing is a great idea but has anyone seen those dollars show up into pro pool as it is supposed to? If they have been collecting these dollars for years and using the pro players as a reason to get $250,000 a year then there is a serious problem and someone phone Harry Platis ASAP. If it has been going on for years then that could mean over million dollars in monies that have been collected and are going where? I just think $250,000 a year would mean five $50,000 added tournaments, that is pretty sweet for pool players, you could have one tournament in each corner of the country and one right in the middle too with that spread.

I would like to see a private organization that is for the players but not by the players perhaps ask to collect the monies from each league organization, that would probably be over $500,000 a year I would think. That money could mean having some big pro tournaments on a regular basis working around the events already in place. The money would be sent at the end of each year from each league and would go into an account for this organization.

I guess its just early for me and I am rambling but its possible something like this would work if the league owners would take part in it. I see the only reason why they would not want to is because they like the extra money they are getting ($250k a year extra), would not trust the organization, or see no benefit to the league by doing so.

I think some benefits for the league would that you could obligate players to do exhibitions for these leagues along with doing something like have banners for all the participating leagues and sponsors around the TV table or venue. Also taking top players from each league and giving them a shot at going pro or playing in a pro tournament for free. There has to be some way to make something like this work, as a group we would all be stronger but it is tough to get people to work together when everyone has there eye on the gold.

 

[Big Perm]

I think many of us are on the same page here....regardless of a league, I'd gladly donate $1 a month, as would most of AZ and league players, towards professional pool.....

But, that money has strings....

Gotta run, will post more later, but we need some specific outline as to exactly how the money will be spent and player responsibilities...

 

[cuesmith]

I was recently reminded about the orignial concept of the APA at its origin. One dollar was withdrawn from entry fees or tour membership (not sure) and placed in a fund for PROFESSIONAL pool.

That became "Professional Pool Players, Larry Hubbart and Terry Bell"

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

My first thought is, gee, what happened to all those one dollars collected from N.U.T.S. and the APA. That's a lot of cheesenips over the years. :wink:

That is a very good question, "what happened to all those one dollars collected from N.U.T.S. and the APA", and the second question is with as many people who play pool, belong to pool leagues, etc.

When has not, or why have not the League Owners tried to get the companies Pool Player purchase products from, to support pool, those pool players who support them, by purchasing their products?

Here is the Valley of the Sun almost ever Bar, or sports Bars with a Pool Tables, and almost ever Pool Room sell Budweiser Beer, from Anheuser-Busch.

Don't see the Anheuser-Busch Distributor supporting Pool in the Valley.

 

[cuesmith]

Don't see the Anheuser-Busch Distributor supporting Pool in the Valley.

They used to support a bunch of tournaments In Kentucky. Danny Beille of Danny's All Star Billiards ran many tournaments that were supported by Budweiser.

 

[Mainplayer]

I think ALL of us pro's should get together and write up a proposal for some of these companies. In this proposal we need to show them what WE can do for them, not what they need to do from us.

 

[Holly]

Thanks Jennie for starting this thread. This is a very important topic.

Although CSI has not emphasized this enough in the past year since CSI launched the USA Pool League, but a portion of the money that goes to CSI for the USAPL is put aside as a pro pool fund. We put aside $.50 per player per week from the CSI portion of the league funds exclusively to go into pro pool.

Mark Griffin recognized, as many of us have, that in order for pro pool in the U.S. to strengthen, it requires having an organizational infrastructure from the amateur side in order to build a base. Mark is someone who thinks much about the future and is a person of action so CSI launched the USAPL nationally approximately a year ago.

CSI took a well tested regional system to the national level. The USAPL system before going national logged 2.4 million matches. 50% of all weekly league money collected is held in escrow by CSI in order to give back as prize money on the local level. This in addition to the $.50 CSI puts aside out of it's own portion for pro pool. The USAPL is not a franchise, CSI is more hands on and oversees the USAPL nationally. We grant protected territories to USAPL league managers and have a solid infrastructure for the USAPL in place. The "Fairplay" handicap system is terrific in that it is simple to use and addresses many of the issues that cause and encourage sandbagging. The handicap goes from 40-125 and a player's handicap can fluctuate weekly up to a few points thus tracking a person's real progress based on their play. Only makable shots not pocketed are counted as missed. Safeties are not equated in the handicap calculation.

A very important aspect of the USAPL is that there are three tiers of teams (300, 400 and 500 team handicap groups). A team does not have to break up as the players progress in their game. The USAPL encourages individual growth AND growth of the sport in the U.S overall.

The USAPL is growing all over the country, with new leagues forming weekly. It is also a great opportunity for those interested in building a full time career developing a league in a geographical region.

So far we have leagues being established and taking root in the following locations:

Columbus, Ohio
Kansas City, MO
Las Vegas, NV
Grants Pass, OR
Piedmont, NC
Birmingham, AL
Indianapolis, IN
Oklahoma City, OK
Tampa, FL
Central / Orlando Area, FL
Detroit, MI
Capital District (Schenectady area), NY

Am I pluggin the USAPL...you bet I am. Not just because I work for CSI, but I honestly believe it is a truly wonderful system and has tremendous potential to be a bridge between the league side and the pro side in a more encompasing way. It is also a job / career opportunity. Will a person right off the bat be able to leave their day job or make a person rich no, but putting in the time to grow the league can turn into a full time career doing what you love and for all the right reasons and in ways that also benefit the sport on multiple levels.

It is important that we care. My mother always said leave a place better than you found it. When I was a kid, I thought she meant the kitchen as I got older I realized she meant our world. Kind of a cool way to look at life eh? CSI has that same philisophy and it is what we work at every day.

For more information about the USAPL or if interested in more details about developing your own USAPL territory and league, please contact Mark Estes at CSI (marke@playcsipool.com) or call 702-719-7665.

Or you can PM me here at the AZBforums with your contact information and I'll pass it to Mark. Please leave me your name, phone, email and state / region you reside.

All the best,
Holly

 

[JoeyA]

I think ALL of us pro's should get together and write up a proposal for some of these companies. In this proposal we need to show them what WE can do for them, not what they need to do from us.

Now, YOU ARE TALKING!

Way to man-up, Mike! Hope your perspective catches on because it is THE CORRECT ONE.

Best Regards,