What is missing in Cuemaking

[pooln8r]

Marshall Piercy- Thinking out of the box.

Mr. Stroud,

I also think if you want to see someone who's trying to stretch the limits in cue making and cue design in general that Marshal Piercy could be your go to guy. He's piercyexclusive on here and prides himself in trying to head in new out of the box directions. He on a daily basis was challenging himself as well as others on AZ to do the same. I've seen some of his artwork on his cues, on joint protectors and in sketches which I have to say are very impressive. I'm not a cue maker unless you count one not so pretty cue I built years ago but I have some background in art. When he's back to full health and building again I think you'll see a lot of good stuff from him and most of it is non-traditional. Right now, if you were to search on his az name you'll find his take on what pointed cues look like to his artistic mind. Great guy but a little misunderstood as his challenges haven't been taken in the proper creative light. Hopefully people will watch with open minds to see what he can dream up and produce.

 

[daveb]

I've been teaching college level art and design for 33 years. Most of the cue designs I see are incredibly redundant and boring.
It seems most cue makers want to play it safe with designs that have a traditional marketability. It's like students in a class who want to copy what everyone else is doing and not take a chance on something personal or creative because it involves the risk of disapproval.
I have two BEGINNING design classes working right now on a basic motif and pattern assignment that is perfectly applicable to the theme of this thread. You don't have to be an art degree major to take a basic design class. You don't even need to know how to draw particularly well.
Part of a design curriculum is about the creative process itself and how to generate ideas and to experiment with variations of those ideas to get the best possible result.
I can understand cue makers whose designs are limited by their equipment,their level of experience and training; but I agree with Bill. I'd like to see more builders step it up. It doesn't take as much as you might think. Take a class.
One other thing, I get people calling all the time wanting students to do FREE artwork "for the experience" or "for their resume". Bullsh*t. These are usually people trying to take advantage on the cheap. Nothing wrong with soliciting design students for work but PAY THEM!

 

[SK Custom Cues]

Cuemaking is a hybrid of sorts. It is a combination of art and craft.

The craft side has evolved to the point that perfection in construction and execution is possible.

The art side seems to be stuck in the past. How many more cues with points or boxes and inlayed with diamonds and dots will be made. Sure there is a place for cues like this. It's called a MUSEUM.

Why don't more cuemakers try something new and different? The apparent reason is that most, if not all, lack any formal art training.

I am approached frequently by people wanting to become cuemakers. They want to know about machines and software. I tell them all the same thing. Go to art school. Learn to design properly. Then become a cuemaker. That is what the industry needs.

I know that I along with a few other cuemakers have struggled long and hard to become better designers. It's not easy. I takes lots of time. The results are worth it.

It saddens me to see so many cuemakers with obvious talent succumb to cliches like "I like traditional cues". What they are really saying is either "I am afraid to try something new" or I'm doing just fine making what I am".

Either way it is a cop out.

Can the situation be changed for the better? Perhaps. The collectors' show that I started is one way and it is having a positive effect. More artistic cues are created every day just for that show.

The main way however is for you ( the buying public) to demand more of your cuemaker. Push on them for something new and different. Get them out of their comfort zone.They WILL respond with something special!

Sincerely,

Bill Stroud

Mr. Stroud,

I am a rather new cue maker, and I do agree with your comments. My approach to cue making has now become a slow one. I started right out of the gate buying a mini lathe having no experience whatsoever in cue making, and the rest is history. I personally have no ambition to use CNC in my cues for the mean time. Presently, I feel that mastering the hit - feedback - harmonic tones - (as I believe the cue is more a percussion instrument than an art piece) is my goal.

In time, I may upgrade my shop with CNC equipment, but at the current time, I have only my Clausing lathe, and one wood lathe for finishing. Compared to some of the others out there, I do feel a bit primitive, but from what I have heard, Mr. Balabushka arrived at quite a nice product with limited equipment, but I could be wrong.

With these tools, I feel I can accomplish a great deal without ever having done a single inlay. To me, mastering an art is understanding the basics in your bones before you move on. Maybe, if that day comes, I will graduate on to inlay work.

I hope to someday be on your level of cue making, and any of your opinions are always welcome.

Thank you for listening, and thank you for posting here on Az.

Sincerely,
Sung Kang

 

[TATE]

Bob,

I didn't think that cuemaking was the only craft/art that has this problem.

It's common in the art world as well. It is a thankless job for an art gallery to convince a client to try something new and different.

But in the art world at least a big part of the thrill of collecting is in the discovery of emerging artists that have something new to say through their work. This is why the cuemaking world is so frustrating for me. I have attempted through the cue show to introduce the collectors to new cuemakers and new designs that are not "traditional" in the usual sense. On the contrary, most of the designs submitted are new and fresh. It is these designs that attract the collectors and the press.

For the past few years I have commissioned a "theme" collection and the results have been remarkable. It is so interesting to see what the same idea translates into by the various cuemakers involved.

I feel that cuemaking and cue collecting is on the verge of an explosion of creativity and fresh ideas. That's the main reason I would like to see the "traditional" designs find their rightful place in history.

As I end my career, I can only hope and attempt to promote a breakthrough that will give rise to a new generation of artists that are also cuemakers.

Bill Stroud

Bill,

The one that comes to my mind is Dave Barenbrugge. I truly think Dave could have been a world class artist in Montmarte, with canvas and palette, or a marble sculptor in Italy, or a car designer for Pinan Farina. I look at his stuff and I just get blown away. I don't even know if Dave can do an inlay! Maybe he was just born with a sense of balance and color. Maybe they can be made - I don't know. Maybe the trick is to turn artists into cue makers, not the other way around!

By the way, I doubt anybody has done more than Mr. Stroud to promote the art of cue making.

Chris ---> my playing cue is a JossWest too, and I ain't changing it!

 

[bstroud]

Mr. Stroud,

I am a rather new cue maker, and I do agree with your comments. My approach to cue making has now become a slow one. I started right out of the gate buying a mini lathe having no experience whatsoever in cue making, and the rest is history. I personally have no ambition to use CNC in my cues for the mean time. Presently, I feel that mastering the hit - feedback - harmonic tones - (as I believe the cue is more a percussion instrument than an art piece) is my goal.

In time, I may upgrade my shop with CNC equipment, but at the current time, I have only my Clausing lathe, and one wood lathe for finishing. Compared to some of the others out there, I do feel a bit primitive, but from what I have heard, Mr. Balabushka arrived at quite a nice product with limited equipment, but I could be wrong.

With these tools, I feel I can accomplish a great deal without ever having done a single inlay. To me, mastering an art is understanding the basics in your bones before you move on. Maybe, if that day comes, I will graduate on to inlay work.

I hope to someday be on your level of cue making, and any of your opinions are always welcome.

Thank you for listening, and thank you for posting here on Az.

Sincerely,
Sung Kang

Sung Kang,

I too started with a single metal lathe, a wood lathe and a drill press.
Like you I experimented with materials and construction methods until I found one the worked. But at the same time I was asking myself how to do the things that I saw in my mind.

It took many years before the technology caught up to my ideas. That was the main reason I started CNC in cuemaking. The other methods were just too limiting.

I am still experimenting, still try new ideas. All because perfection in design and execution is always a moving target. Each time I feel I have reached it, it just moves further away.

I hope you find the construction method you are seeking but don't forget to dream about all the other things that make cuemaking so interesting and so much fun.

Bill Stroud

 

[GetMeThere]

Winston,

You are the exact type of person I was trying to attract with this post.

There is nothing wrong with liking "traditional" cue designs but I would imagine that you are no long using "rabbit ears" to watch TV.

The point I'm trying to make here is that cuemakers just need to move on.
They need to try new things and it is people like you that can push them to do so. Give it a try next time. Perhaps you can find a bridge between a modern and a traditional design the you would like even more.

Thanks for your reply,

Bill Stroud

Bill, great thread!

I'm not a cuemaker, btw. But I think you're missing one design point: the SHAPE of a cue (a long thin stick) places considerable limits on design. I would say that almost all the recent cues I've seen with "modern designs" looked like crap to me.

I'm just another guy who appreciates the traditional designs, done with taste and understatement.

 

[mia]

Cuemaking is a hybrid of sorts. It is a combination of art and craft.

The craft side has evolved to the point that perfection in construction and execution is possible.

The art side seems to be stuck in the past. How many more cues with points or boxes and inlayed with diamonds and dots will be made. Sure there is a place for cues like this. It's called a MUSEUM.

Why don't more cuemakers try something new and different? The apparent reason is that most, if not all, lack any formal art training.

I am approached frequently by people wanting to become cuemakers. They want to know about machines and software. I tell them all the same thing. Go to art school. Learn to design properly. Then become a cuemaker. That is what the industry needs.

I know that I along with a few other cuemakers have struggled long and hard to become better designers. It's not easy. I takes lots of time. The results are worth it.

It saddens me to see so many cuemakers with obvious talent succumb to cliches like "I like traditional cues". What they are really saying is either "I am afraid to try something new" or I'm doing just fine making what I am".

Either way it is a cop out.

Can the situation be changed for the better? Perhaps. The collectors' show that I started is one way and it is having a positive effect. More artistic cues are created every day just for that show.

The main way however is for you ( the buying public) to demand more of your cuemaker. Push on them for something new and different. Get them out of their comfort zone.They WILL respond with something special!

Sincerely,

Bill Stroud

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this post because it is all based off the notion that cuemaking is "a combination of art and craft". While for some cuemakers/cue lovers this is true, its important to note that this sentiment is just an opinion. The first sentence of the post above needs to be revised to read that cuemaking CAN BE a combination of art and craft. But the two are not necessarily married by definition.

For some, cuemaking and art go hand in hand. For others, the artistic side is either a bonus or a non-factor all together. And frankly, that's as it should be. For many, it is important to note that cuemaking should be a mariage between FUNCTION and craft. If there are those who wish to add art into the mix, so be it. But to imply that art is a necessary element of a cue is, in my opinion, nothing more than personal preference.

 

[bobalouiecda]

Stained Glass to Cue Building

Bill, Thanks for your response and for your support of those trying to be unique and create new designs. As my Glass career winds down I have been preparing to design and build pool cues. I have most of the equipment and plenty of well seasoned materials to experiment both with construction techniques, but especially looking forward to the design aspect. Seeing the well known artists such as yourself has humbled me and has made me realize I will never be better technically but may possibly some day create a new and unique look. My advantage is that I do not need to sell cues but would like to create a following. One thing for certain is that no matter how creative my designs become, quality and playability will not be forsaken.

I am looking forward to posting pics when I am proud enough to show my work. I will never design for a client again. Weight and shaft size may be the only aspect that I will allow to be requested. If I stop enjoying cue construction I have plenty to do. Always wanted to be a professional gambler. Hope some day the name Bob Healey will mean something to a few of you collectors. Would not be bad if some of the great cue builders some day recognize my work. Thanks again Bill for the inspiration and for your incredible career.

 

[Zbotiman]

"patronage!"

Bill: I have been struggling with the same problem since the middle seventies. I have designed, fabricated, and installed many thousands of Stained Glass panels in the last 33 years. Although the mix of art and fabrication are twofold, the ultimate goal was to enjoy the process and create new and different art pieces. It took less than two years to fully understand that what the public wants to buy and what I prefer to create are totally different. Most buyers are extremely conservative. Consequently, the majority of my work has been unfulfilling and boring, but has afforded me a decent living. The only Stained Glass artists who can think outside the box and make money are the very few famous artists who rarely do their own fabricating. Bob H

Bill,
I really like what your saying here. The only problem is, I've run into the same problem as this gentleman quoted above. So the problem I have with this type of thinking, is patronage! Where does one find, the "people of means," to support such an enterprise? Initially, the customer base for Artistic cues, is limited to spending their money with the high profile names like yours. Names they "KNOW AND FEEL COMFORTABLE SPENDING THAT KIND OF MONEY WITH!" Even if your product is an innovation and extends the playing possibilities within this medium, you still have to be recognized as such. Better than just about anybody, I know, you know what that means! And your one of the very best entrepreneurs in the business, an innovator from the word go!

When I got into cue making in 98 I went back to the "classics" and learned construction form that standpoint. That's what I believe is the place to start in any new endeavor, get a strong foundation in the fundamentals. But really, "that's only the beginning of the box your put in with cue building, as pure Art. "Art is something that only comes when your able to ignore whether you sell or not." Unless of course your willing to give it away for years, and that requires supplemental income, too.

In the last few years I've been working on a shaft that is extremely low deflection with a Butt, balanced to accentuate those playing characteristics, with very good player reviews and results. However, the ability to make money with something that revolutionary is very limited in this economy. That "cash cow engine" is what I hoped would free up my ability to create more artistic cues with my cue-building. In other words, I could stop doing what pays the bills and build what I wanted to!

In my opinion, "like in every other Art form, you need the Medici family as patrons!"
Billy Gibbs
P.S. If you see a way out of this money box, I for one, "would sure love to hear it!"

 

[bobalouiecda]

I disagree with MIA

For 33 years of design work for Etched glass, Stained Glass, Bevelled Glass,
and blown glass, we still have those in the art community that only recognize glass artists as craftsmen. This will doubtfully change as it is slowly going out of style.

To say that Art is not an integral part of even the most basic cue in my opinion is ridiculous. The combination of beautiful wood and even the correct ringwork is an art. I doubt any decent cue builder would not consider his or her work a marriage of art and construction. Not all cue builders are exceptional artists but still are artistic the minute the design process starts. Cues parts are not thrown together randomly.
Is ugly Art not ART. Who is to say.

 

[bstroud]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with this post because it is all based off the notion that cuemaking is "a combination of art and craft". While for some cuemakers/cue lovers this is true, its important to note that this sentiment is just an opinion. The first sentence of the post above needs to be revised to read that cuemaking CAN BE a combination of art and craft. But the two are not necessarily married by definition.

For some, cuemaking and art go hand in hand. For others, the artistic side is either a bonus or a non-factor all together. And frankly, that's as it should be. For many, it is important to note that cuemaking should be a mariage between FUNCTION and craft. If there are those who wish to add art into the mix, so be it. But to imply that art is a necessary element of a cue is, in my opinion, nothing more than personal preference.

You have a very interesting opinion but your argument seems to fail when placed in the context of history. From prehistoric times mankind has seen fit to decorate their tools of war, of construction and even celebration and death. It is part of what we are as a species. Many of these objects are considered fine art today.To separate pool cues from the rest of Mankind's tools requires a tremendous leap of faith that I for one am not prepared to make.

If I was relegated to make the very best playing cues without the chance to embellish them with something that conveys by fingerprints, I would have stopped making cues many years ago.

Bill Stroud

 

[Koop]

It saddens me to see so many cuemakers with obvious talent succumb to cliches like "I like traditional cues". What they are really saying is either "I am afraid to try something new" or I'm doing just fine making what I am".

Either way it is a cop out.

Sincerely,

Bill Stroud

Not sure I understand why it's a cop out?
If someone makes traditional cues and has a steady stream of business why would they care about adding art into their cues? What if some cuemakers don't have a customer base that cares about art in their cues at all? They just love the way that makers cues play.
Not to mention, when you start introducing "art" into cues, what does that do to price? I would imagine it puts it out of reach for most people.

Not sure why but the quote above just irritated me. I'm not a cuemaker but it just comes across as demeaning when, in fact, there are probably gobs of makers out there that just have zero interest in what you're talking about. Why is it a cop out or laziness when it could just be that some are completely content with what they are doing now?

LOVE your Universal shaft btw

Koop

 

[macguy]

Cuemaking is a hybrid of sorts. It is a combination of art and craft.

The craft side has evolved to the point that perfection in construction and execution is possible.

The art side seems to be stuck in the past. How many more cues with points or boxes and inlayed with diamonds and dots will be made. Sure there is a place for cues like this. It's called a MUSEUM.

Why don't more cuemakers try something new and different? The apparent reason is that most, if not all, lack any formal art training.

I am approached frequently by people wanting to become cuemakers. They want to know about machines and software. I tell them all the same thing. Go to art school. Learn to design properly. Then become a cuemaker. That is what the industry needs.

I know that I along with a few other cuemakers have struggled long and hard to become better designers. It's not easy. I takes lots of time. The results are worth it.

It saddens me to see so many cuemakers with obvious talent succumb to cliches like "I like traditional cues". What they are really saying is either "I am afraid to try something new" or I'm doing just fine making what I am".

Either way it is a cop out.

Can the situation be changed for the better? Perhaps. The collectors' show that I started is one way and it is having a positive effect. More artistic cues are created every day just for that show.

The main way however is for you ( the buying public) to demand more of your cuemaker. Push on them for something new and different. Get them out of their comfort zone.They WILL respond with something special!

Sincerely,

Bill Stroud

It has more to do with the market then the lack of imagination of the cuemaker. For example why do almost all cue makers make 1' ferrules? Why are most wrap sections the dimensions they are? Why the 5/16 x 14 screws? Why do most all cue makers use the same materials? Why all the BIM? The reason is, from the influence of the top cue makers the buying public have been taught that only if a name cue makers says it is alright nothing changes. All the others copy scared to death to be different, even if they believe their ideas are better. I remember when the SW cues came out. They were different. You could not get a steel joint even if you asked. They built a cue based on their own philosophy. It was different but it was not long before others began to copy them.

Every cue maker makes a 6 point H/L with a phenolic joint. They even use the same style of screw. SW was maybe the only cue makers who actually did something different because they thought it was the right thing to do, for them anyway. I don't want to over elaborate the point but you know what I am talking about. Look at what happened with the Radial screw. Point is, cue makers want to sell cues and are afraid to be different. I personally like scrimshaw. Simple diamonds, dots or windows can be taken to any level of art through scrimshaw. I don't get excited about the ability for one to program a computer then call themselves artists.

 

[Scott Lee]

Bill...I agree with you to a point. Art is in the eye of the beholder, not a particular concept that is held up as an example by someone with a famous name, or perhaps an abstract application. When I first came into your shop, soon after you had moved to Aspen, I was just a kid going to school in Gunnison...a new poolplayer with a head filled with dreams (I didn't start playing pool until college). My buddy and I drove over just to "see" a cuemaker's shop, knowing nothing about design or construction...just a couple of curious kids. Driving up in my friend's VW bug, the first thing we saw was your Ferrari Daytona parked outside. Your shop was underneath your house on the hill (remember those days?). You invited us in and showed us around, and we were like kids in a candy store...albeit with NO $$$ (LOL).

Without any "art" training, and no prior knowledge of even what a "box cue" was, I had 'designed' (for lack of a better word) a box cue I wanted you to make for me, on a sheet of notebook paper (still have it). It incorporated red, orange and yellow veneers, along with MOP, ivory, and ebony, into a birdseye butt. You took one look at the 'color scheme' and said, "That would look terrible!" LOL However, you were nice and told me you'd build it for $1000 (quite a bit more than the fanciest cue in your first 'catalogs'... which I still have, btw). Well, it might as well have been a $1,000,000, as I was just a poor college kid.

About three years later I did have you make me a plain 4-point cue (red/blue veneers and ebony points and butt sleeve). I remember that cue well, as I took delivery from you at the World 9ball Tournament that Incardona had in Burlington, IA. It was Oct. '75. I didn't miss a ball for three days, and actually got lucky and beat Keith out of $1800 in about 15 minutes!

Skip ahead 8 years, and now I was ready to have my design made regardless of the cost. It was my 30th BD present to myself, and you charged me $1500! It was also your very first cue after you got your CNC setup (by now you had moved around to TX and back to Colo. Spgs). You still werent' sure about my veneer colors, but you made the cue to my exact specifications. It turned out GREAT, and to this day it is still one of the most beautiful cues I've seen (with the exception of the super fancy stuff that you and others have done in the past 20+ years). In 1992 I wanted to buy an APA franchise, and had to sell a cue to get the $$$ I needed. My two most valuable cues were my Balabushka and my custom JW. Even though I had the Balabushka far longer, I decided to part with it, rather than give up my own design that you had made for me. I ended up selling it to the girl that started Atlas Billiard Supply for $4000. Since then you would always refer to me (when I'd see you at the trade show or somewhere) as "the guy who sold a Balabushka, to keep a JossWest!"

So what's point of this post (other than to rehash some good old memories)? It's the first thing I said...art is in the eye of the beholder, whether they are trained artists...or not. Thanks for being a huge part of my 'cue life', and I wish you the best in whatever you choose to pursue!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I too started with a single metal lathe, a wood lathe and a drill press. Like you I experimented with materials and construction methods until I found one the worked. But at the same time I was asking myself how to do the things that I saw in my mind.

It took many years before the technology caught up to my ideas. That was the main reason I started CNC in cuemaking. The other methods were just too limiting.

I am still experimenting, still try new ideas. All because perfection in design and execution is always a moving target. Each time I feel I have reached it, it just moves further away.

I hope you find the construction method you are seeking but don't forget to dream about all the other things that make cuemaking so interesting and so much fun.

Bill Stroud

 

[macguy]

Bill...I agree with you to a point. Art is in the eye of the beholder, not a particular concept that is held up as an example by someone with a famous name, or perhaps an abstract application. When I first came into your shop, soon after you had moved to Aspen, I was just a kid going to school in Gunnison...a new poolplayer with a head filled with dreams (I didn't start playing pool until college). My buddy and I drove over just to "see" a cuemaker's shop, knowing nothing about design or construction...just a couple of curious kids. Driving up in my friend's VW bug, the first thing we saw was your Ferrari Daytona parked outside. Your shop was underneath your house on the hill (remember those days?). You invited us in and showed us around, and we were like kids in a candy store...albeit with NO $$$ (LOL).

Without any "art" training, and no prior knowledge of even what a "box cue" was, I had 'designed' (for lack of a better word) a box cue I wanted you to make for me, on a sheet of notebook paper (still have it). It incorporated red, orange and yellow veneers, along with MOP, ivory, and ebony, into a birdseye butt. You took one look at the 'color scheme' and said, "That would look terrible!" LOL However, you were nice and told me you'd build it for $1000 (quite a bit more than the fanciest cue in your first 'catalogs'... which I still have, btw). Well, it might as well have been a $1,000,000, as I was just a poor college kid.

About three years later I did have you make me a plain 4-point cue (red/blue veneers and ebony points and butt sleeve). I remember that cue well, as I took delivery from you at the World 9ball Tournament that Incardona had in Burlington, IA. It was Oct. '75. I didn't miss a ball for three days, and actually got lucky and beat Keith out of $1800 in about 15 minutes!

Skip ahead 8 years, and now I was ready to have my design made regardless of the cost. It was my 30th BD present to myself, and you charged me $1500! It was also your very first cue after you got your CNC setup (by now you had moved around to TX and back to Colo. Spgs). You still werent' sure about my veneer colors, but you made the cue to my exact specifications. It turned out GREAT, and to this day it is still one of the most beautiful cues I've seen (with the exception of the super fancy stuff that you and others have done in the past 20+ years). In 1992 I wanted to buy an APA franchise, and had to sell a cue to get the $$$ I needed. My two most valuable cues were my Balabushka and my custom JW. Even though I had the Balabushka far longer, I decided to part with it, rather than give up my own design that you had made for me. I ended up selling it to the girl that started Atlas Billiard Supply for $4000. Since then you would always refer to me (when I'd see you at the trade show or somewhere) as "the guy who sold a Balabushka, to keep a JossWest!"

So what's point of this post (other than to rehash some good old memories)? It's the first thing I said...art is in the eye of the beholder, whether they are trained artists...or not. Thanks for being a huge part of my 'cue life', and I wish you the best in whatever you choose to pursue!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Artistic abilities can't be taught. One can learn to recognize and appreciate the nuances of art but the creation of it may still elude them. Just a simple sketch any artist can create in a few minutes would be almost imposable for the untalented to produce. Much like the game of pool. Some make it look easy while others can't do it to any real high level in a lifetime. I could play pool the first time I picked up a cue, no kidding. I go years without playing and can just pick it up again like I never quit.

The point is, if it was easy to create art, in this case with cues, it would have no value. As with anything here has to be different levels of skill. It makes little sense for a talented artist to look at the less talented artist and ask, "whats up, why can't you do it"?
The answer is because they can't and that is as it should be.

 

[cheapcues.com]

With all the technological advances in golf clubs, practically everyone is driving the ball 300 yards now - just swing the club, it does the rest of the work. With all the technological advances in bowling balls, practically everyone is averaging over 200 now - just roll the ball, it does the rest of the work. I would hate to see pool become that way.

LOL Clearly you're not a golfer or a bowler!

I promise you there is absolutely no risk of someone developing a cue that will pocket balls on its own.

 

[desi2960]

jw

Mr stroud i have your dominio pattern cue that i think was made around 1980. It is the best feeling cue i have ever had in my hand. that is one of the reasons i started building cues, the way it plays.
I own a jewelry store and have designed one of one pieces of jewelry for 40 years. I have tryed to build many of my cues with the same frame of mind.
BUT, a perfect example of me trying something new to me, putting a wood pin in the butt of a cue, and having other builders say it cannot be done. There so many builders saying " if you do not do it just like me its wrong " many do not want changes
I have boxes and boxes of pieces of experiments that have gone wrong, and regardless of what other builders say i am going to keep reaching for the holy grail and find that great playing cue with a unique design.
thank you very much for your contribution to azb



chuck starkey

 

[Roger Long]

Bill,

This is a great subject.

I, too, am one who has grown bored with what the "traditional" look has now become. It seems that the values placed on today's cues are determined only by what will sell; and buyers of these cues base their decisions on only a few things: Does the cue have veneered points? Are they perfectly even? Are the glue lines visible? Does it have ring work? Do the rings line up? And, is the finish thick, glossy, and flawless?

There's nothing wrong with any of that, except that it lumps everybody into one category. What I mean by that is; how does your cue LOOK? With the exception of one cue builder (which shall remain nameless), no one orders a cue strictly by how it plays, anymore. But back in the day when the "traditional" cues first started, they were ordered from one cue maker or the other because of how they played.

My cue building has always been very simplistic because my budget has been very limited. I simply have not been able to afford expensive CNC machinery, and it's that type of machinery that one must have in order to enter the "me too" cue building market. So for me, I focused on building simple looking, but good hitting cues. And for years, I chased one hit in particular. Not too long ago, I finally found it! But I decided that such a great hitting cue deserved better than a simple look, so I took it to an associate of mine who is a master wood worker, and does great wood carvings. I asked him to put a few simple carvings into my cue, just to make it look "different." What I got back was an intricately carved work of art. (You can see a picture of the butt end of it in my avatar.)

Now we've decided to do more hand carved cues. We currently have four more designs in the works, but each one is being built to play as great as that first one. And here's the good part: we don't care if we never sell any of them! As a matter of fact, the first cues of any design are not for sale at all. People can order a duplicate of any design we have (if they choose to do so); but we aren't going to push our cues on anybody, and we definitely want to keep the first cues for ourselves. We appreciate our hand built, hand carved, great playing cues; and we're not going to concern ourselves with whether or not anyone else shares that same appreciation.

Now tell me if my thinking is "out of the box," or if I'm just out of my mind. :grin-square:

Roger

 

[mia]

You have a very interesting opinion but your argument seems to fail when placed in the context of history. From prehistoric times mankind has seen fit to decorate their tools of war, of construction and even celebration and death. It is part of what we are as a species. Many of these objects are considered fine art today.To separate pool cues from the rest of Mankind's tools requires a tremendous leap of faith that I for one am not prepared to make.

If I was relegated to make the very best playing cues without the chance to embellish them with something that conveys by fingerprints, I would have stopped making cues many years ago.

Bill Stroud

Interesting point. Still, one has to keep in mind that while mankind has seen fit to decorate their tools of war, it was not done out of necessity, nor was it a requirement. Man CHOSE to do this to suit his own needs. Other men chose to simply make something that kills... no frills added. It all boils down to who is making the weapon. The choice to decorate it is up to that man. Even then, if he chooses to decorate it in a manner that has been done many times over, he has every right to do so. There is no pre-requisite that says every craftsman must be an artist as well. There never has been nor should there be.

While many of these historic weapons/tools/objects very well may be considered fine art, you once again delve into the realm of personal preference. When it comes to art, it is 100% subjective. Show me the man who thinks Jackson Pollack was a true artistic genious and I'll show you just as many who saw splatter and chaos with little to no 'art' behind it. What makes one man's opinion right and the other man's wrong? Nothing. Its all personal preference.

Because you choose to add your artistic flair/intepretations into each cue you crafted doesn't mean that all cuemakers are obligated to do the same. It was a choice you made. It was something you felt YOU needed to do. Others see sheer beautfy in a nod to the classic, traditional look. Others still choose to showcase the beauty of the natural elements of the cue, like wood choice.

I think the real issue here is the way in which people view cuemaking. You view it (as do others) as an art form. Others view it as a craft through which they can express themselves artistically if they so desire.

 

[qbilder]

Artistic abilities can't be taught. One can learn to recognize and appreciate the nuances of art but the creation of it may still elude them. Just a simple sketch any artist can create in a few minutes would be almost imposable for the untalented to produce. Much like the game of pool. Some make it look easy while others can't do it to any real high level in a lifetime. I could play pool the first time I picked up a cue, no kidding. I go years without playing and can just pick it up again like I never quit.

The point is, if it was easy to create art, in this case with cues, it would have no value. As with anything here has to be different levels of skill. It makes little sense for a talented artist to look at the less talented artist and ask, "whats up, why can't you do it"?
The answer is because they can't and that is as it should be.

My thoughts as well. A very talented cuemaker may be artistically challenged while a superb artist may have difficulties building a cue that players can relate to & enjoy. We see it all across the board.

Art is timeless, not new nor old. As mentioned, human kind has been doing it since before history. Only the finest art is appreciated by the masses. Even the greatest artists often fail. They build their reputations on a fraction of their pieces. Those few pieces grab the attention & intrigue of people & provoke emotions from deep inside them. That's why they are appreciated. Not everybody can create that, and even the best of those who can most often fail. Cue building is in it's golden years right now. We are appreciating cues for more than just a tool to play a game and people are being inspired to try their hand at this functional canvas to express themselves. Most fail. Few succeed. It's not unlike musicians. Every human has the emotions & the drive to express them, but only a tiny percentage have the capability & God given talent to forcefully grab the attention of others & strike a cord with their emotions, too. While I agree with the subject of this thread, I am realistic enough to see it's a pipe dream. Yes, a few are capable of such changes. But most are not.