How bad are the charges going to affect Barringers reputation?

I apologize because I did not know of this being brought up before, and as I stated earlier, was just wondering others in the forums opinions. Ive learned more in less than a day about what actually happened here, because people actually know. Try reading through the over 15 page thread in the main forum, because it makes it look like he killed the elephants himself. Ill just pm one of the guys I know on here next time I see an article like this brought up I guess.
 
The story has been updated on most media links, http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/77225/20101029/ivory-elephants-smuggling.htm
They were watching him since 2005, through his site and his Ebay sales, and not just one, then he tried to have the undercover sell more for him. Sorry, but a rat is a rat. He has spent much breath on his site and emails about how lawful and upstanding he is, (even though most know better, his track record speaks for it's self) but then gets caught doing this? And it also seems to coincide with when Ebay suddenly stopped allowing the sale of any ivory, period! So the rest of us have to suffer for his greed, as some good deals can no longer be had. Karma always comes around.....
Just my observation
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
The story has been updated on most media links, http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/77225/20101029/ivory-elephants-smuggling.htm
They were watching him since 2005, through his site and his Ebay sales, and not just one, then he tried to have the undercover sell more for him. Sorry, but a rat is a rat. He has spent much breath on his site and emails about how lawful and upstanding he is, (even though most know better, his track record speaks for it's self) but then gets caught doing this? And it also seems to coincide with when Ebay suddenly stopped allowing the sale of any ivory, period! So the rest of us have to suffer for his greed, as some good deals can no longer be had. Karma always comes around.....
Just my observation
Dave
Click to expand...

You are out of line blaming him. The law is flawed. I don't know of ANY HIGHEND cuemaker who hasn't shipped out a cue with ivory Overseas.

You may say you know one, but who would say they broke the law and want it known??? I KNOW of a couple WELL KNOWN AND RESPECTED makers that have(don't ask me for their names, but think 1k and up for a basic).

If someone offered you xxxx amount of dollars for a cue with some ivory and you stood to profit 2-3k......what would you do??

It is interesting that the allegations never mentioned anything AT ALL about the ivory being illegal......just the sale....

It is a joke......
 
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> What's funny to me is the fact that he actually MADE AND SOLD even just a few cues.

I don't know a single soul (that I know of) that has even seen a cue that was made in his shop,much less paid for one.

I wasn't aware that it was illegal period to ship cues with legal ivory IN them,just that the export of the ivory in raw form was.

Does this apply to "player's" cues as well,as in taking a big Cog or Boar to a tournament in Germany or wherever,when the intention was never to sell it?

I've never done business with the man,so I can't say with any certainty that his rep is deserved or not. I've picked up a few things as far as knowledge off his site,but not sure I could do much business with him unless he had something I needed and no one else had. Even then,I'd be fairly leery. Tommy D.
 
pescadoman said:
You are out of line blaming him. The law is flawed. I don't know of ANY HIGHEND cuemaker who hasn't shipped out a cue with ivory Overseas.

You may say you know one, but who would say they broke the law and want it known??? I KNOW of a couple WELL KNOWN AND RESPECTED makers that have(don't ask me for their names, but think 1k and up for a basic).

If someone offered you xxxx amount of dollars for a cue with some ivory and you stood to profit 2-3k......what would you do??

It is interesting that the allegations never mentioned anything AT ALL about the ivory being illegal......just the sale....

It is a joke......
Click to expand...

I believe that you are the one out of line here. It's true that some people rec/del cues with ivory out of the country but in so doing they also are breaking the law and when caught must pay. If I go to the gas station, fill my tank and then just drive off without paying and get arrested for it later because the station owner had a camera watching me. Can I then use the argument that the law is flawed as others had got away with it before so I should be left alone? That type of argument is the real joke. Would it be ok if I had a large gas tank and as such had a higher profit from this "crime"?

Dick
 
Hi,

I am rooting for Joe. I hope he gets a slap on the wrist and a small fine. I know one thing for sure. The ivory Joe deals is not poached ivory. He is very professional about those rules and I believe he should get his tusks back.

The Feds are good about making a Federal Case and bring the legal system to bare against normal citizen who can't compete in the legal game against the gov.

Selling an Ivory cue overseas and being caught by customs is not like robing a bank. He was smart to plead guilty and I am sure they will confiscate the cue and give him a fine.

I know there are a lot of people here that don't like Joe, but I like him and do business with him all of the time and have never been disappointed with my relationship with him.

Good Luck Joe. This is just a bump in your road and this too shall pass.

Rick Geschrey

I read another article about this and they are not accusing him of dealing ivory that was not pre ban. Joe is a smart man and would not post pics like this on the internet if he was dealing banned ivory. This stuff happened a few years ago and I am sure Joe is just settling his case at this time.

cuecomponents_2131_83422637.gif
 
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If someone offered you xxxx amount of dollars for a cue with some ivory and you stood to profit 2-3k......what would you do??

High-ticket pool cues are red-flags at the customs.
 
manwon said:
What is the purpose of this thread? It has all been discussed before, I really see no purpose to keep bringing this crap up, I mean who can say how it is going to affect this man, but one thing is for sure he is paying for his mistake and he doesn't need this crap!!!!!!!:mad:

JIMO
Click to expand...


The purpose of this thread is simple, It continues to show that people want to discuss what has absolutely nothing to do with them. :deadhorse:
 
scdiveteam said:
Hi,

I am rooting for Joe. I hope he gets a slap on the wrist and a small fine. I know one thing for sure. The ivory Joe deals is not poached ivory. He is very professional about those rules and I believe he should get his tusks back.

The Feds are good about making a Federal Case and bring the legal system to bare against normal citizen who can't compete in the legal game against the gov.

Selling an Ivory cue overseas and being caught by customs is not like robing a bank. He was smart to plead guilty and I am sure they will confiscate the cue and give him a fine.

I know there are a lot of people here that don't like Joe, but I like him and do business with him all of the time and have never been disappointed with my relationship with him.

Good Luck Joe. This is just a bump in your road and this too shall pass.

Rick Geschrey

I read another article last year about this and they are not accusing him of dealing ivory that was not pre ban. Joe is a smart man and would not post pics like this on the internet if he was dealing banned ivory. This stuff happened a few years ago and I am sure Joe is just settling his case at this time.

cuecomponents_2131_83422637.gif
Click to expand...
If you read the article it says he tried to have the buyer act as an agent in future sales. He clearly knew what he was doing was illegal and it was not just a one time thing. He want to continue doing it to make a few bucks. He pleaded guilty and will have to pay. By the way, in south Florida a boat was found with illegal animal stuff abord as decorations. They seized the boat that was worth millions dollars and before it was over the owner paid hundreds of thousands in fines. There don't seem to be any slaps on the wrist with these guys. They make an example of every case they bring. The deal Joe seems to have gotten was being able to plead to just one charge and having the rest dropped to expedite the case. Getting such a good deal will certainly result in a hefty fine and probably no jail time that I am sure Joe jumped at. It was not just a one time dumb act as many probably are by an innocent novice. He intended to make it an ongoing enterprise. That is probably what brought this down on his head so hard. Someone else may just have had the cue seized..
 
pescadoman said:
You are out of line blaming him. The law is flawed. I don't know of ANY HIGHEND cuemaker who hasn't shipped out a cue with ivory Overseas.

You may say you know one, but who would say they broke the law and want it known??? I KNOW of a couple WELL KNOWN AND RESPECTED makers that have(don't ask me for their names, but think 1k and up for a basic).

If someone offered you xxxx amount of dollars for a cue with some ivory and you stood to profit 2-3k......what would you do??

It is interesting that the allegations never mentioned anything AT ALL about the ivory being illegal......just the sale....

It is a joke......
Click to expand...

Wow, it's the law that's flawed.

How do you feel about the law that says some thug can't break down your door and steal everything you own.

The fact that one or more "highend" cuemakers have violated the law and
not yet gotten caught doesn't change a thing, except the fact that you
are telling it on a WORLDWIDE PUBLIC forum just makes it more likely
they will get caught - hope you weren't planning on ordering a cue from any of them.

Dale
 
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pdcue said:
Wow, it's the law that's flawed.

How do you feel about the law that says some thug can't break down your door and steal everything you own.

The fact that one or more "highend" cuemakers have violated the law and not yet gotten caught doesn't change a thing, except the fact tht you
are telling it on a WORLDWIDE PUBLIC forum just makes it more likely
they will get caught - hope you weren't planning on ordering a cue
from any of them.

Dale
Click to expand...

Violent crime vs what this is about isn't a good comparison. Someone can get arrested and face a year in Fed prison plus 100 grand for an inlay?? The ones I had in mind no longer do it because of the risk, it was merely an example of them trying to make a decent living.

Yes the law is flawed. How can it not be when legally imported ivory cannot be legally exported??? Maybe I am missing something...
 
The man is a criminal full stop, and of story.
You commited a crime, now do the time.
2,000 cuban cigars ? was they smuggled,: or did he buy them at walmart ? :confused:
 
rhncue said:
I believe that you are the one out of line here. It's true that some people rec/del cues with ivory out of the country but in so doing they also are breaking the law and when caught must pay. If I go to the gas station, fill my tank and then just drive off without paying and get arrested for it later because the station owner had a camera watching me. Can I then use the argument that the law is flawed as others had got away with it before so I should be left alone? That type of argument is the real joke. Would it be ok if I had a large gas tank and as such had a higher profit from this "crime"?

Dick
Click to expand...

My argument is that there should be exceptions, as evident by my suggestion that documentation could suffice to track and prove the preban status of the material.

This is why I say the law is flawed:

Stealing gas hurts a store owner. The law against it deters and punishes those who might break it.

What purpose is served by persecuting someone exporting a cue with preban ivory??

And I was wrong. You certainly have a right to blame him, I just don't. I trade sport caught fish for food and that is illegal. Should I go to jail as well??

This is all I am saying.

Sorry is I was misunderstood.
 
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pescadoman said:
Violent crime vs what this is about isn't a good comparison. Someone can get arrested and face a year in Fed prison plus 100 grand for an inlay?? The ones I had in mind no longer do it because of the risk, it was merely an example of them trying to make a decent living.

Yes the law is flawed. How can it not be when legally imported ivory cannot be legally exported??? Maybe I am missing something...
Click to expand...

You are missing several things.

1. people who aren't sociopaths abide by the precept that one
does not choose which laws he will obey - the particular type
of violation doesn't enter into the decision process.

2. It is the ivory, not the inlay. Did you miss the part about this is
all being done to stop INTERNATIONAL trafficing in ivory.

3. There is no such thing as legally imported ivory - only ivory
that was imported prior to the ban which makes it, as of the day
of the ban, non-illegal<not the same thing as legal>.

You have every right to disagree with the law. I personally disagree
strongly with it, but for the time being I shall continue to ship only
inside the US.

Dale
 
pdcue said:
You are missing several things.

1. people who aren't sociopaths abide by the precept that one
does not choose which laws he will obey - the particular type
of violation doesn't enter into the decision process.

2. It is the ivory, not the inlay. Did you miss the part about this is
all being done to stop INTERNATIONAL trafficing in ivory.

3. There is no such thing as legally imported ivory - only ivory
that was imported prior to the ban which makes it, as of the day
of the ban, non-illegal<not the same thing as legal>.

You have every right to disagree with the law. I personally disagree
strongly with it, but for the time being I shall continue to ship only
inside the US.

Dale
Click to expand...

1. I don't think exceeding the speed limit makes someone a sociopath, but I get what you are saying.

2. I was inferring the inlay to be ivory. I suppose making an example of someone, as police and politicians love to do, might help. The root cause of course was the poaching of the animals simply for their tusks.

3. Pre ban was legally imported ivory at the time... That is what I meant.

I'm actually torn over the issue, since I am vehemently opposed to the senseless slaughter of animals for profit and I know that some of the ivory that we use came from them.

Maybe it is just time that people accept a substitute.....
 
I spoke with Joe about all the media coverage and he sent me a link to the real story.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2010/October/10-enrd-1224.html

I do business with joe all the time and have never had a problem with his products. If I had a problem with my order he promptly fixed the problem. He will come through this just fine, the State Dpartment wants to cut another notch for a small, small infraction. As stated previously there are many high end cue makers and some not as well known that have sent cues overseas, Joe just happened to get caught doing it, enough said.

If he didnt plead guilty they could and would freeze all bank accounts, seize all assets in connection with the infraction, ie business and home, and leave you swinging in the wind if they so desired.

Its a small infraction and it will blow over and life will return to normal.
 
Bad GUY

He's not such a bad guy. One mistake doesn't make him a piece of $%^%%
If in fact he really did what he's accused of. I didn't hear if he was convicted and of course in this country you're innocent until proven guilty!!!!!
RIGHT?
 
Banned ivory sales

JerseyBill said:
He's not such a bad guy. One mistake doesn't make him a piece of $%^%%
If in fact he really did what he's accused of. I didn't hear if he was convicted and of course in this country you're innocent until proven guilty!!!!!
RIGHT?
Click to expand...

WRONG!!! He plead GUILTY because he was guilty. Joe, if anybody, knew what the CITES rules are. He made the CHOICE to ignore them--at his peril.
Personally I wish him no harm but when you choice to disobey the rules
you take a chance and eventually the law of averages catches up.

Justice News Banner
Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Thursday, October 28, 2010
Florida Businessman Pleads Guilty to Illegal Trade in Elephant Ivory

EXCERPT FROM THE FED PRESS RELEASE
"WASHINGTON – Joseph Barringer, 55, the owner of a Florida pool cue company, pleaded guilty today in federal court in Orlando to violating the Endangered Species Act in connection with the illegal export of African elephant ivory through an online auction site".
 
JerseyBill said:
He's not such a bad guy. One mistake doesn't make him a piece of $%^%%
If in fact he really did what he's accused of. I didn't hear if he was convicted and of course in this country you're innocent until proven guilty!!!!!
RIGHT?
Click to expand...

It's not just one mistake for the reason that I can't stand Joe. It's his entire model for doing business. As far as I'm concerned he's nothing more than a low class con man in my opinion but this may come as a surprise to many but I don't think to badly what-so-ever about him being caught. Many have shipped cues without being caught just as many people speed and don't get caught. He took a chance and got busted is all. It's his many other dealings that has tainted my view of him.

Dick
 
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