Possible Change to APA Scoring...

[Banger101]

From Lee Tiani APA League Operator

Text originally from: http://teamapa.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2806

READ ABOUT IT AND LET ME KNOW
WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT.


APA's 9Ball program has a unique scoring system, which allows for a match to finish when a pre-determined point count has been reached, not necessarily when a 9Ball is pocketed.

That is why I advertise our 9Ball Program as:

9BALL Rules with Straight Pool Scoring!
It is very unique and it is very successful!

One of the APA's 9B features that makes it exciting is the fact that a player can lose their individual match, yet still score points for their team. In 8B, the final score is so very Black & White: you either get the '1' or you get the '0' ... with no 'credit' given to the loser or any indication of how close the match was, like we have it in 9B.

BUT ... we are working on it for 8B!

I have asked to be a 'test site' for a proposed new 8Ball Scoring System .... one that rewards close matches as well as blow out matches. Nothing will change about the way an 8Ball match is played ... what will change is how the point(s) are distributed to both teams as a direct result of the final score of the individual match.

We propose calling it the 3-2-1-0 Scoring System.

And here's how it will work.

The WINNING PLAYER will win:
3 points for their team if they SHUT OUT their opponent; or
2 points for their team if they just BEAT THEIR opponent;

The LOSING PLAYER will win:
1 point for their team if they LOSE and were ON THE HILL; or
0 points for their team if they LOSE and were NOT ON THE HILL.

So you can either beat your opponent 3-0 or 2-1 or 2-0, which could result in a FINAL SCORE of all 5 matches (supossing your team wins all 5, which currently would be a 5-0 win)of
MAXIMUM: 15-0 (plus the Bonus Point for each team) or
MINIMUM: 10-0 (plus the Bonus Point for each team) or
somewhere in between.

Just like 9B, your team could lose 3 of the 5 matches and still win for the night. You could (for example) lose 3 matches 2-1, and win 2 matches 3-0, which would give your team an overall 8-6 win for the night.

I am very excited to even think of how this will affect the matches as they are being played. For example: 2 SL 5's are playing a Race-to-4. After 3 games, the score is 3-0. One player is thinking "I can't lose tonight, so this is my opportunity to lose a couple of games and run up a few innings" .. while the opponent is thinking "I can't seem to make a ball tonight, guess I'm going to get shut out".

This new scoreing system should change the attitude of both players. The player that's ahead 3-0, just might start thinking "1 more win and I win 3-0 for my team', while the other player is thinking "I'm shooting bad tonight, but if I can manage to scrape out a win, I will save a point and only lose 2-0 instead of 3-0".

The difference could very well be the difference of making the playoffs or not by session's end. And should give us a better quality of matches all up and down the line ups for all 5 matches.

Think about it.

 

[Jcat]

i like it, you got my vote.

 

[killerstroke]

APA New scoring - Bailout for the weaker player

Personally I don't care for this type of scoring. Why must rules be made to hurt the better player and give additional handicaps to the weaker player? Isn't this is what the handicap system is for? This teaches nothing to the losing player that they did something wrong during the game/match. This scoring system is trying to manipulate who actually wins and who loses. All I can say is there is already a handicap system in place why add another system. A win is a win and a loss is a loss. Learn from your mistake, shake hands, say good match and move on.
This sounds like the direction our country is going, bailout for all who abuse the system and punish tax the people who keep it going.

 

[justadub]

I think it over-complicates things.

The thing I like about APA 8-ball is that it is simple, scoring-wise. You win, or you lose. Add anything extra to the scoring and you get more opportunities for the dreaded "S".... sandbagging. That, and simpler is simply better for a recreational league night.

In my opinion, of course.

 

[cycopath]

APA scoring

Sounds interesting. I'll keep track of it this week during league play and see how it scores out.

I understand why the APA does the things that they do, always evolving the system to benefit the lower skill level players. But I'm starting to feel like if someone starts playing just above average they are punished. I've always thought there wasn't run for short stop + speed players in the league, but my god it's getting so if you can make 3 balls in a row they jack your skill level up to where you can no longer field a team without breaking the 23 rule.

 

[JDB]

Sounds interesting. I'll keep track of it this week during league play and see how it scores out.

I understand why the APA does the things that they do, always evolving the system to benefit the lower skill level players. But I'm starting to feel like if someone starts playing just above average they are punished. I've always thought there wasn't run for short stop + speed players in the league, but my god it's getting so if you can make 3 balls in a row they jack your skill level up to where you can no longer field a team without breaking the 23 rule.

I agree. It is getting to the point that I can't play unless every low player on the roster shows up. I am about ready to give up the handicap league and play exclusively in Masters where I don't have to worry about handicaps at all.

 

[dr9ball]

I agree. It is getting to the point that I can't play unless every low player on the roster shows up. I am about ready to give up the handicap league and play exclusively in Masters where I don't have to worry about handicaps at all.

In my opinion, you won't regret it. If you're going to play APA, then the Masters Division is the best thing they have going.

Good luck.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I think this is a bad idea. At least it doesn't fundamentally change the way the game is played (like other leagues in which the opponent gets credit for *how many balls they have left*!!--I *want* my opponent to get rid of their balls in 8 ball). Still I agree that the principle negatives are:

1) Complicates an otherwise smooth working system.

2) Emphasizes and promotes mismatches. You will have to change the strategy of who plays who in order to maximize the chance of a 3-0 win. Again, complicates the system, and doesn't promote even match-ups.

3) If you have a have a particularly strong player (generally A players *dominate* their area), they will get even more credit for their team beyond the automatic win they enjoy now. Its been a long time since I've lost an APA 8 ball match. Most of my wins are 5-0. The fact that my team gets the win nearly every time not only helps us, but now we would often get "extra" credit. This is not really fair to the others in the division. I think 1 win should be 1 point only.

The system has worked fine for many years. The APA is very successful (as far as I can tell). Why change?

KMRUNOUT

 

[Buster Jones]

Personally I don't care for this type of scoring. Why must rules be made to hurt the better player and give additional handicaps to the weaker player? Isn't this is what the handicap system is for? This teaches nothing to the losing player that they did something wrong during the game/match. This scoring system is trying to manipulate who actually wins and who loses. All I can say is there is already a handicap system in place why add another system. A win is a win and a loss is a loss. Learn from your mistake, shake hands, say good match and move on.
This sounds like the direction our country is going, bailout for all who abuse the system and punish tax the people who keep it going.

Actually this would hurt a weak player, because he/she would get beat by a wider margin than a simple 1 point. He/she could lose 3-0. Who it helps out is the player that does not play the end game (that is the chokers). The ones that don't play well under pressure.

Has nothing to do with any great conspiracy against the greatness of our country!

 

[EJmagnum186]

I don't like it and I do play in the league so I am not an APA basher. To me it is like saying we handicapped the league so weak/ beginning players can compete which is fine. You got beat anyways so now lets give you a consolation prize. We are adults not 1st graders where everyone gets a prize for participating......There are winners and losers and that is why we keep score so please do not dilute it.

 

[APA Operator]

Personally I don't care for this type of scoring. Why must rules be made to hurt the better player and give additional handicaps to the weaker player? Isn't this is what the handicap system is for? This teaches nothing to the losing player that they did something wrong during the game/match. This scoring system is trying to manipulate who actually wins and who loses. All I can say is there is already a handicap system in place why add another system. A win is a win and a loss is a loss. Learn from your mistake, shake hands, say good match and move on.
This sounds like the direction our country is going, bailout for all who abuse the system and punish tax the people who keep it going.

But doesn't this actually help the better player? I think it's a better score for playing better all the way around, right? Win a race to 4 by a 4-0 score, get a 3-0 match score. Win it 4-1 and the match score is 2-0. Win it 4-3 and the score becomes 2-1. It teaches the winning player not to let up, and it teaches the losing player not to give up.

I don't understand your last comment about abusing the system. Honestly, it looks like you were trying to fit that into your reply, and it just doesn't make sense. Who are the abusers, and how does this bail them out, who are the people who "keep it going", and how does this punish them?

 

[RunoutJJ]

The major rule change that has to happen in APA 8Ball is call your fricking pocket. End off

 

[dabarbr]

The APA is what it is. There are many players that join a team that have never played pool before and the best way for them to get better is to keep playing. If a new player joins a team and never wins a match they will feel useless because they didn't contribute to the team. They will play a session and then quit. Encouraging them by awarding them points even though they didn't win a match will keep them on the team.

In nine ball this is what happens. They may never win a match all season but they have value on the team because of the points they scored.

For the higher level players, take this as a challenge to improve your game and play better.

 

[trustyrusty]

The major rule change that has to happen in APA 8Ball is call your fricking pocket. End off

LOL - agreed 1000%....

As for the win/loss scoring; not a bad idea. Extra incentive to shut out an opponent or at least not let them get to the hill could (COULD) actually help in the bagging area. But, I'm not sure I understand why you'd reward someone for getting to the hill and losing....why should they get a point? That's like awarding a batter first base for fouling off X number of pitches....whew, you were close, and you REALLY tried.... BTW, anyone thinking that ANY system will STOP sandbagging in ANY league....lol, not gonna happen. But, giving extra points for stepping on someone's throat and finishing them could certainly be a good thing (at least for those wanting to WIN, and not just cheat the system). I have a feeling there will be PLENTY of players wanting to win 2-0 instead of 3-0 though. Last I played in the APA, I can recall at least a dozen times I saw pretty good players NOT break and run on purpose (it was there, they saw it, had the game to do it, and yet found a way to let their opponent to the table without just giving up the game)...meanwhile, another table (not league play) they are running1 in every 3-4 racks...:sorry:

ok, my longwinded reply, just reminded me once again, why I didn't like APA (though the 23 cap was an even bigger reason than SLOP, and the BAGGING).

 

[steev]

I like it. Can make the division races much more interesting.

There will always be the haters.

-s

 

[labatt ice rod]

apa

One thing that will never change with the apa\cpa (i play in canada) is the sandbagging too many times on too many nights i see a SL4/5 playing a SL2 and the 4/5 will be pushing balls all over the table to rack up innings or miss balls on purpose so there skill level wont go up or if a player knows that he can crush the other player he will take shots and play differently then he would if he were playing a strong player(isn't that sandbagging) The other thing they have to do is get rid of the e8s(early8s) you scratch you scratch i did not win that game you lost it so why should a player move up just because YOU scratched but the apa/cpa calls that a win for you plus the innings. In a SL6 so if i play another 6 and he runs 5 tables but scratches the 8 5 times should i be moved to a 7 because he lost...........I can go on for days and days..... quick fix ..call all shots and use a ball count with innings then you will see your true handicaps.... Thanks

 

[greyghost]

The major rule change that has to happen in APA 8Ball is call your fricking pocket. End off

DING DING DING you just won a million dollars......b/c I don't really see the differience between APA 9 ball and APA 8 ball except that if you don't make the 8 on the break you must wait to pocket it last or its a loss.

ITS RETARTED, in the APA the fabricated game rules make the games them selves a joke.

Sh*ttin balls in in 8 ball counts as good. Or so long as you jack up on the shot its not a foul.

No wonder no one knows how to play pool much less knows the correct rules. Got everyone running around thinking 10 ball isn't a call shot game and that racking the balls right with opposing strip and solid in the back corners of an 8 ball rack is incorrect


I wouldn't be suprised if the "new" scoring system doesn't promote the 23 rule.....

B/c thats the main part of the equation to their cash cow......without it they are nothing.

Its like blackmail or something........cuz you got to split up if you got too many good players, when you split up you got to find new people.

Its exponential growth dude.....

One of the best hustles in the history of the world


they aren't working with the game they are sukn the life out of it.......its barely human anymore. Its like they invented new stuff on Uranus or something and decided to transplant it on Earth.


I like my pool the old fashioned way........by the real rules.

To hell with issues on handicapping.......their rules are garbage.

And the game rules are which the foundation of the varying games are built....robbing peter to pay paul

 

[RunoutJJ]

Ghost are you saying the APA has things they way they are just for the players money?

Very intresting indeed :nono:

 

[bboxgrinder]

People should not get rewarded for losing. To me that is why the league handicap mentality is what it is today. Weaker players think they are owed something from the better players, back in the day before all the leagues came about one learned to play by taking a beating. If you didn't have the will or heart to become better you just didn't play competively. This should be great, another brain scheme by the APA.

 

[Banks]

GG, you forget that this is an amature league mostly catering to people that just want to get out and have a good time. That, and there has been a discussion regarding the rules - considering you mention the 'old-fashioned' pool, keep in mind that the old rules are more similar to APA than they are to BCA. If you have something to contribute to the topic, we'd like to hear it, otherwise leave your league-bashing to one of the many threads devoted to such (goes for everyone).

I'm not sure what kind of difference this type of scoring will actually have outside of inflating the scores. People could still manipulate the system in the same ways. Scores will probably be all screwy at the beginning while they get accustomed to doing things this way.