How much and where do we pay?
CTE/ PRO ONE with Stan Shuffett
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How much and where do we pay?
Go to justcueit and click on lessons
It is 39 for the dvd and 6$ to ship
45$ total. I done a money order;
Petey
John, the Paypal set-up in is process and I hope to have it up ASAP.
International S/H. $10
Thanks,
Stan
good summary of CTE "debate"
FYI, I just read this post in the CTE thread that was banished to the NPR forum. I wanted to post it in this (and any) thread dealing with CTE, because I honestly think it is the best single post I have ever seen in any CTE thread over the many years of "debate." It is very well stated, summarizes most of the important questions about CTE, and doesn't insult or attack anyone personally. I just added it to the top of the quotes section of my CTE resource page, where it belongs.
from Patrick Johnson:
FYI, I just read this post in the CTE thread that was banished to the NPR forum. I wanted to post it in this (and any) thread dealing with CTE, because I honestly think it is the best single post I have ever seen in any CTE thread over the many years of "debate." It is very well stated, summarizes most of the important questions about CTE, and doesn't insult or attack anyone personally. I just added it to the top of the quotes section of my CTE resource page, where it belongs.
from Patrick Johnson:
First, what I think it is: I think CTE is a "reference" aiming system (very similar in concept to, and in fact an outgrowth of, Hal Houle's old "3-angle" system), that divides all the possible shots into two categories (thinner or fuller than half ball), leaving the final aim adjustment up to you to learn "by feel". I think it adds some suggested "systematic" adjustments, but nobody can seem to describe those, which makes me think they're probably mostly learned by feel too.
How it works/what it offers: I think CTE offers its users the following things:
1. A specific and easy-to-see starting place (the half-ball alignment) that's in the middle of all the possible alignments. Each shot can be "measured" in relation to the half-ball alignment, giving some structure to an otherwise wide-open (and maybe daunting) narrowing-down process. (This is also the way the old 3-angle system worked, but with three reference angles rather than just one.)
2. A specific and easy-to-see starting alignment of the stick, CB and OB (again, the half-ball alignment) that brings your focused attention to how those three things are aligned, something very helpful in learning to aim (and in executing aim once you've learned it) but often overlooked.
3. Because of its structured approach to aiming, a confidence boost that helps your mind make focused "recordings" of successful shot alignments which can be more readily recalled for future similar shots ("learning by feel").
These might not be all the benefits (see Dr. Dave's website for a list that may go beyond these). I don't believe any of these benefits are only available from CTE, but CTE may be the best way to get them for some players.
The controversy surrounding CTE is about whether or not it's an "exact" system that doesn't rely on the player's ability to finish the aiming process "by feel". Since nobody can seem to describe the whole process (actually, nobody can seem to clearly describe any of it past the initial half-ball alignment), it seems obvious to some (including me) that it therefore can't really be an "exact" system and must include some (maybe a lot of) feel. For some reason, CTE users can't stand this idea and argue vehemently against it (this may be part of the confidence thing), but their arguments always boil down to the same thing: it works for them.
I take CTE users' word for the fact that "it works for them" and only take issue with the claim that it doesn't involve any "feel", but the arguments usually become unfocused very quickly and devolve to "it works" vs. "it can't work", giving us all lots of opportunities for playing the dozens (trading clever insults), but shedding no light whatsoever.
How it works/what it offers: I think CTE offers its users the following things:
1. A specific and easy-to-see starting place (the half-ball alignment) that's in the middle of all the possible alignments. Each shot can be "measured" in relation to the half-ball alignment, giving some structure to an otherwise wide-open (and maybe daunting) narrowing-down process. (This is also the way the old 3-angle system worked, but with three reference angles rather than just one.)
2. A specific and easy-to-see starting alignment of the stick, CB and OB (again, the half-ball alignment) that brings your focused attention to how those three things are aligned, something very helpful in learning to aim (and in executing aim once you've learned it) but often overlooked.
3. Because of its structured approach to aiming, a confidence boost that helps your mind make focused "recordings" of successful shot alignments which can be more readily recalled for future similar shots ("learning by feel").
These might not be all the benefits (see Dr. Dave's website for a list that may go beyond these). I don't believe any of these benefits are only available from CTE, but CTE may be the best way to get them for some players.
The controversy surrounding CTE is about whether or not it's an "exact" system that doesn't rely on the player's ability to finish the aiming process "by feel". Since nobody can seem to describe the whole process (actually, nobody can seem to clearly describe any of it past the initial half-ball alignment), it seems obvious to some (including me) that it therefore can't really be an "exact" system and must include some (maybe a lot of) feel. For some reason, CTE users can't stand this idea and argue vehemently against it (this may be part of the confidence thing), but their arguments always boil down to the same thing: it works for them.
I take CTE users' word for the fact that "it works for them" and only take issue with the claim that it doesn't involve any "feel", but the arguments usually become unfocused very quickly and devolve to "it works" vs. "it can't work", giving us all lots of opportunities for playing the dozens (trading clever insults), but shedding no light whatsoever.
Since a number of people might look at your website that never go here, and therefore haven't read any of the info here about CTE, and, since you want an accurate record, don't you think you should also add a disclaimer to it?
Such as "Patrick does not know how CTE works, he has been offered lessons by several people that do teach it, but has refused those lessons. These comments, while nice in nature, are from someone that doesn't even know what CTE really is, and refuses to learn it. He just likes telling people that it can't work with the limited knowledge he does have of it."
Neil,
If you or any other CTE proponent wants to post a meaningful, reasoned, and informative reply to PJ's post, I would be happy to include it on my CTE resource page.
Thank you for offering, but you (or somebody else) needs to try a little harder.
Regards,
Dave
I donth think this material or conversation is appropriate
for THIS thread . But that is just me
Petey
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I can't yet Dave, as I have stated a number of times. I'm just saying that I'm sure you want your site to have the best info on it. And, since that is true, why post info from someone that doesn't really know what they are talking about, without informing your readers of the same?? If he wants to get a lesson in CTE and THEN state the same thing, fine. But, what you are doing is very misleading to your readers.
You've always seemed to want the best info on your sites. Why change now? Just because he didn't insult anyone this time?? It's your site, and you are of course free to post on it what ever you want to. But, now knowing what some of your sources are, I will have to start looking at your stuff in a different light than I have been. If I don't know the person you cite, I will have to take it as a suggestion, and not fact.
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The problem is PJ is saying nobody can describe the whole process, well it was described to me. It is also described virtually everyday to numerous students of the game. It has and continues to be taught by several instructors on here (well documented and respected instructors no less). So PJ has an opinion, but that is all it is, an opinion well disputed by alot of people, and quite a few respected people I might add.
The problem is: it hasn't been described here, where all of the marketing claims, challenges, debate, and discussion are occurring.
Again, if you or any other CTE proponent wants to post a meaningful, reasoned, and informative reply to PJ's post, I would be happy to include it on my CTE resource page.
For reference, here it is again:
from Patrick Johnson:
First, what I think it is: I think CTE is a "reference" aiming system (very similar in concept to, and in fact an outgrowth of, Hal Houle's old "3-angle" system), that divides all the possible shots into two categories (thinner or fuller than half ball), leaving the final aim adjustment up to you to learn "by feel". I think it adds some suggested "systematic" adjustments, but nobody can seem to describe those, which makes me think they're probably mostly learned by feel too.
How it works/what it offers: I think CTE offers its users the following things:
1. A specific and easy-to-see starting place (the half-ball alignment) that's in the middle of all the possible alignments. Each shot can be "measured" in relation to the half-ball alignment, giving some structure to an otherwise wide-open (and maybe daunting) narrowing-down process. (This is also the way the old 3-angle system worked, but with three reference angles rather than just one.)
2. A specific and easy-to-see starting alignment of the stick, CB and OB (again, the half-ball alignment) that brings your focused attention to how those three things are aligned, something very helpful in learning to aim (and in executing aim once you've learned it) but often overlooked.
3. Because of its structured approach to aiming, a confidence boost that helps your mind make focused "recordings" of successful shot alignments which can be more readily recalled for future similar shots ("learning by feel").
These might not be all the benefits (see Dr. Dave's website for a list that may go beyond these). I don't believe any of these benefits are only available from CTE, but CTE may be the best way to get them for some players.
The controversy surrounding CTE is about whether or not it's an "exact" system that doesn't rely on the player's ability to finish the aiming process "by feel". Since nobody can seem to describe the whole process (actually, nobody can seem to clearly describe any of it past the initial half-ball alignment), it seems obvious to some (including me) that it therefore can't really be an "exact" system and must include some (maybe a lot of) feel. For some reason, CTE users can't stand this idea and argue vehemently against it (this may be part of the confidence thing), but their arguments always boil down to the same thing: it works for them.
I take CTE users' word for the fact that "it works for them" and only take issue with the claim that it doesn't involve any "feel", but the arguments usually become unfocused very quickly and devolve to "it works" vs. "it can't work", giving us all lots of opportunities for playing the dozens (trading clever insults), but shedding no light whatsoever.
How it works/what it offers: I think CTE offers its users the following things:
1. A specific and easy-to-see starting place (the half-ball alignment) that's in the middle of all the possible alignments. Each shot can be "measured" in relation to the half-ball alignment, giving some structure to an otherwise wide-open (and maybe daunting) narrowing-down process. (This is also the way the old 3-angle system worked, but with three reference angles rather than just one.)
2. A specific and easy-to-see starting alignment of the stick, CB and OB (again, the half-ball alignment) that brings your focused attention to how those three things are aligned, something very helpful in learning to aim (and in executing aim once you've learned it) but often overlooked.
3. Because of its structured approach to aiming, a confidence boost that helps your mind make focused "recordings" of successful shot alignments which can be more readily recalled for future similar shots ("learning by feel").
These might not be all the benefits (see Dr. Dave's website for a list that may go beyond these). I don't believe any of these benefits are only available from CTE, but CTE may be the best way to get them for some players.
The controversy surrounding CTE is about whether or not it's an "exact" system that doesn't rely on the player's ability to finish the aiming process "by feel". Since nobody can seem to describe the whole process (actually, nobody can seem to clearly describe any of it past the initial half-ball alignment), it seems obvious to some (including me) that it therefore can't really be an "exact" system and must include some (maybe a lot of) feel. For some reason, CTE users can't stand this idea and argue vehemently against it (this may be part of the confidence thing), but their arguments always boil down to the same thing: it works for them.
I take CTE users' word for the fact that "it works for them" and only take issue with the claim that it doesn't involve any "feel", but the arguments usually become unfocused very quickly and devolve to "it works" vs. "it can't work", giving us all lots of opportunities for playing the dozens (trading clever insults), but shedding no light whatsoever.
Regards,
Dave
Still only an opinion. Nothing factual. Glad your holding onto it though.
Agreed.
That's why I would also like to see a meaningful, reasoned, and informative reply from a CTE proponent to post my CTE resource page.
Regards,
Dave
The story of the guy in the black leather jacket!
When I was around 12 or 13 years old, my grandfather would occasionally take me to the horse races. One day we were approached by a guy who casually asked my grandfather how he was doing (i.e., picking horses). I don't recall how my grandfather responded because it had little if nothing to do with the guy's follow up comment. The guy said that he was doing well that day at the track because there was this guy in a black leather jacket that had given him some great pics that day. He went on his way and in no more than 5 minutes a guy in a black leather jacket approached my grandfather and asked if was interested in some help picking the next race. My grandfather wasn't out on a one time adventure with his grandson that day. He frequently went to the race track and had been around the block more than a few times. While my grandfather and I didn't talk much about what had just happened, even at only 12-13years old I could spot the hustle.
Fast forward to about two months ago. A guy here on AZBilliards, from Michigan according to him, asked if there was a AZMember in the Baltimore area that could do him a favor and pick up a cue that was being sold in the Baltimore area and ship it to him. While I didn't completely understand what his motivation was, I felt as a member of this community that I would consider helping out. I responded to the thread and indicated that I was close to Baltimore but didn't offer anything else as I was waiting on him to respond back with details of how this would all work. He never replied to my comment that I did indeed live close to Baltimore and never asked for anything.
Interestingly enough, the next day, I got a private message from none other than Cookie Man asking:
Do you live near Baltimore and do you use Center To Edge?
It may be just a coincidence but to me it felt just like the hustle from when I was 12years old at the race track with my grandfather!!!
When I was around 12 or 13 years old, my grandfather would occasionally take me to the horse races. One day we were approached by a guy who casually asked my grandfather how he was doing (i.e., picking horses). I don't recall how my grandfather responded because it had little if nothing to do with the guy's follow up comment. The guy said that he was doing well that day at the track because there was this guy in a black leather jacket that had given him some great pics that day. He went on his way and in no more than 5 minutes a guy in a black leather jacket approached my grandfather and asked if was interested in some help picking the next race. My grandfather wasn't out on a one time adventure with his grandson that day. He frequently went to the race track and had been around the block more than a few times. While my grandfather and I didn't talk much about what had just happened, even at only 12-13years old I could spot the hustle.
Fast forward to about two months ago. A guy here on AZBilliards, from Michigan according to him, asked if there was a AZMember in the Baltimore area that could do him a favor and pick up a cue that was being sold in the Baltimore area and ship it to him. While I didn't completely understand what his motivation was, I felt as a member of this community that I would consider helping out. I responded to the thread and indicated that I was close to Baltimore but didn't offer anything else as I was waiting on him to respond back with details of how this would all work. He never replied to my comment that I did indeed live close to Baltimore and never asked for anything.
Interestingly enough, the next day, I got a private message from none other than Cookie Man asking:
Do you live near Baltimore and do you use Center To Edge?
It may be just a coincidence but to me it felt just like the hustle from when I was 12years old at the race track with my grandfather!!!
I haven't been offered lessons by several people who teach it.
I don't refuse to learn it.
I don't tell anybody it can't work.
Have you really misunderstood all my posts, or isn't the truth enough to make whatever point you want to make about CTE?
pj
chgo
Interesting story. Here's one you might like....
Years ago, I snuck into The Sands Casino in Atlantic City with my friend, Kevin. Given, Kevin was mid-late twenties at the time and I was barely 18. We actually headed to Moosic, PA to play in a tournament at Arena Billiards. Unfortunately, we missed the draw. My father had given me $500 as a graduation present - so Kevin suggested, "F-it... let's just go to AC." It's funny how these stories always start with, "F-it... let's just go to AC."
At the time, I was pretty green when it came to gambling in general. Kevin, on the other hand, was a seasoned gambler and a super player. I knew Kevin played super poker so I gave him my $500 and told him to put in $500 and let's make a poker play. While he was playing, I basically pulled up a chair outside of the poker area and started to kill time smoking cigarettes - watching people walk by.
Out of nowhere, this older Italian fellow sits beside me, lit up a cigarette and asked me if I was even old enough to be in the casino. With conviction, I said, "Of course I am!"
"No you're not," he replied. "But that's ok-- I'm not a cop. My friend is playing over there and I'm just killing time--- I just wanted to rattle ya a little bit... I used to sneak in to casinos as well when I was your age."
Next thing you know we learn our friends are at the same table - so we sweat the game together. Before you know it, we find out everyone is a pool player! When this guy learned that I played pool, he asked if I was hungry and offered me dinner on his comps--- NICE guy. At the end of the night, we exchanged phone numbers and that was that.
(fast forward 3 or 5 months later....)
My phone rings and it's that guy. I didn't even recognize him at first but when he said "it's ___ from the Sands!" --- I immediately remembered who he was. He asked if there was a race track near me and I told them they just opened an OTW in my town, so yes. He said, "Dave, I want you to listen very carefully. Go to the OTW and bet the 4-6 exacta in race 3 in Yonkers. Don't box it, don't do anything stupid--- just bet that exacta, OK?"
I was like...ARE YOU SERIOUS??? I only had $2 to my name so I went into my mom's purse to steal a twenty-spot. I drove to the OTW and placed the bet and whaddya know!?!? The 4 pulled ahead the entire race with the 2 in second place with 6 way behind. I was like... I totally deserve this... what a retard I am. WAITTA MINUTE....HELLO!! The 2 started to fall back like it was retarded and the 6 looked like it got poked with steroids. Long story short..... whamo. I forgot how much $$$$ I won that day, but it was one of my biggest scores to date. When I got home, I replaced the money exactly how I found it in my mom's purse (if I kicked her some jelly--- she would have KNOWN something was up).
So.... the moral of the story is you never know. The guy in the black leather jacket may have been trying to sell some information. Horse racing is straight-up crooked and setup. Betting off the sheets is for stone-cold suckers. You're either in the "know" or you're not.... and that's what I learned when I was 18. I never heard from that guy again--- but it did "cure" me from visiting the track again.
Dave
Jerry, you do not have a location in your info. When I found out you lived in balto and had CTE under your name, just figured we could get together and play some. Now your making me feel like a scammer, whats up. Come see me at the green room if you have something else to say.
..........
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