CTE/ PRO ONE with Stan Shuffett

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dr_dave said:
Joey,

I don't think I have mocked what you know about CTE/Pro One. If I have, you deserve an apology. I have challenged mocked some outrageous claims and ridiculous statements made by CTE proponents (see the DAM intro paragraphs). I do think the outrageous claims and ridiculous statements are bad for pool, so I will most certainly continue to challenge and mock them.

Tom and I are profiting off the sale of the instructional products offered on my commercial website (dr-dave-billiards.com), but I do not profit from my free, online, nonprofit, educational resource website (billiards.colostate.edu). In fact, I often turn down request for advertising because I want my educational resource site to remain non-commercial. Now, I can see how some people might decide to purchase my products after they benefit from my free online educational website. In this way, I do profit from the noncommercial site.

Regards,
Dave
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Dr. Dave -

Do you plan on posting all of the details of Stan's DVD to your aiming section when it's released?

Dave
 
GetMeThere said:
I certainly don't mind if Stan sells a million copies--Geez, the guy who sold PET ROCKS made a million bucks off it, right? It's a big world, and LOW VALUE CERTAINLY never stopped people from buying what they want to buy!
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This should be enough to get you banned.
 
cookie man said:
This should be enough to get you banned.
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Then you'll want to take your concerns to the moderators immediately (as I'm sure you have).

If the moderators feel a simple opinion about the likely value of a product (or the good wishes that someone selling something sells a lot!) is inappropriate for the site, then I don't really want to post here.
 
Pushout said:
He should have been gone long before this, I thought a lot of his posts were in violation in the first two pages of the cte is silly thread.
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I agree. The language used in the first post of his silly thread usually would bring down the ban hammer. That and the fact he has all the details of what's been said for the last 15 years about cte makes you wonder. The fact he's from Colorado kinda narrows it down for me but without seeing the IP address I can't be sure.
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
Do you plan on posting all of the details of Stan's DVD to your aiming section when it's released?
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I probably will post a basic definition/description of Pro-One once I learn the details of what Pro-One is. I hope the DVD helps provide the "information" that has been lacking for so many years.

I'm sure Stan's "information" will be shared and critiqued (by me and others), but I doubt the "information" will be the true value of the DVD. If it is, and if all of the "information" can be summarized in just a few sentences, then I would question the "value" of the DVD.

Regards,
Dave
 
eezbank said:
I agree. The language used in the first post of his silly thread usually would bring down the ban hammer. That and the fact he has all the details of what's been said for the last 15 years about cte makes you wonder. The fact he's from Colorado kinda narrows it down for me but without seeing the IP address I can't be sure.
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If you're trying to make the foolish assertion that GetMeThere is really Dr.Dave, then you probably haven't noticed the few points of genuine acrimony between us.

I think Dr. Dave sometimes is a bit of a sellout over "CTE." And I think the position he takes that "CTE works, but just not for the reasons explicit in CTE" is not justified, and not particularly wise.

And I'm not "from" Colorado, I once went to school there for a short time. Neither is Dr. Dave. From what I've read from his biography, he's from Louisiana. I was born and raised in New Jersey. I currently live in...a state different from Colorado (and rather a long distance away).


EDIT: Oh, and for the record, I'm not ANYBODY "else." I have never posted in the AZB forums (or ANY pool-related forum) at any time under any other name.
 
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GetMeThere said:
What childish nonsense. You seem to know nothing about business; and you seem to not clearly understand the consistent ethics of Dr. Dave's site, either: he gives FULL AND ACCURATE attribution for anything used on his site. What you (jokingly) refer to doing would be to NOT acknowledge that it was Dr. Dave's material you copied (obviously, because you wouldn't be taking the eaiser route of simply linking to his site).

On a less childish level than your point deserves, your analogy fails because:

1) I don't intend to use Stan's DVD information to turn myself into a CTE instructor (the failure of your Mike analogy)

2) I don't intend to sell or pass off Stan's information as my own (the failure of your Dr. Dave analogy).
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Fail




Best,
Mike
 
Main Event said:
I am sorry if these questions have already been answered but I don't have time right now to read through the entire thread.
I did email Stan inquiring about the video and he wrote back telling me that it was in the final editing stages.

1. Does anyone know the plan release date?
2. Cost of Pro1 DVD?
3. With out giving away trade secrets on Pro1 before the DVD is available I have a question on Pro1. Currently I use Ghost Ball w/BHE, if I learned the Pro1 aiming system would I still be able to use BHE to apply desired English on the cue ball?
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I don't know exactly, but I hope to see the video soon. IIRC mid-November was a possible target date. Doesn't matter to me. It'll be worth the wait.:wink:

The cost is $39 and $6 S&H = $45.

You can apply anything you want to the CB as with any other aiming system provided you know what you're doing with spin in the first place. After using the system and getting it down you will automatically be able to line up for english as you get down on the shot. It will come naturally just like ghostball, feel or whatever you use now.

Best,
Mike
 
JoeyA said:
Lou if saying and doing the right thing is reimbursing those business people who send me "free" pool related stuff, then I'll continue to say and do the right thing.

You're pretty good at ad hominem attacks as well. You an GMT seem to be cut from the same cloth.I think they're against forum rules as I recall.

You try to portray your ad hominem attacks as simple humor but I doubt that the moderators will agree if I start making mention of them.

Your constant needling is getting old and I really don't want to get nasty with you but you're making it difficult for me to ignore your mean-spirited comments.

If you don't see the difference between publicly detailing all of Stan's work after the expense he has gone through and lending an individual a book or a dvd then I really can't help you or anyone else who chooses to be a thief.

I guess we just have different moral standards.

If you don't like my posts, ignore them. Get over it and quit stalking me.[/B]
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Well, I see it didn't take much to throw you into full Taliban mode.

Look, Joey, you can make all the claims you want, but you're only fooling yourself, a few like-minded cohorts, and end up making yourself look like a bit of a drama queen instead of a level-headed individual. You and I sometimes opine on the same subject in the same threads. I enjoy reading your posts and occasionally commenting on them. That does not make me a stalker, no matter how big a font you use. If you don't like my posts, then you should exercise the "Ignore" feature, or just not respond to my posts.

Obviously you missed (or choose) to ignore that I apologized to Stan some time back in the other thread. Instead you want to drum up support for a witch hunt and intimate that you have the power to have people banned, if you so choose. Frankly, I wasn't aware you wielded that much influence here. And, if you do, you do, and there's not much I can do about it. But in any case, I doubt such power would flow from phony charges, such as the one's you're making in this thread (and the other) and all the drama you try to inject them with. So before you get righteous again, take a look in the mirror.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Well, I see it didn't take much to throw you into full Taliban mode.

Look, Joey, you can make all the claims you want, but you're only fooling yourself, a few like-minded cohorts, and end up making yourself look like a bit of a drama queen instead of a level-headed individual. You and I sometimes opine on the same subject in the same threads. I enjoy reading your posts and occasionally commenting on them. That does not make me a stalker, no matter how big a font you use. If you don't like my posts, then you should exercise the "Ignore" feature, or just not respond to my posts.

Obviously you missed (or choose) to ignore that I apologized to Stan some time back in the other thread. Instead you want to drum up support for a witch hunt and intimate that you have the power to have people banned, if you so choose. Frankly, I wasn't aware you wielded that much influence here. And, if you do, you do, and there's not much I can do about it. But in any case, I doubt such power would flow from phony charges, such as the one's you're making in this thread (and the other) and all the drama you try to inject them with. So before you get righteous again, take a look in the mirror.

Lou Figueroa
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Lou's there's a certain group of people who blame other people for their problems, refusing to look in the mirror themselves. I suggest you look in the mirror yourself. You're not looking too good.

Those who get banned, earn their ban. I have no influence on banning or anything else in this forum.

Just stay off of the veiled ad hominem attacks which you say is simply good old fashion humor and you'll be fine.

Personally, I don't care for your kind of attention. It's far too negative and I don't care to be associated with that type of negativity.

Do something productive with your time other than nipping at my heels like you belong to a pack of jackals. Go write that pool instruction book you've been promising to do. I'll be the first one to buy a copy or...... on second thought, maybe you already owe me for the glowing endorsement I always seem to give you for your writing skills.
 
Mikjary said:
I don't know exactly, but I hope to see the video soon. IIRC mid-November was a possible target date. Doesn't matter to me. It'll be worth the wait.:wink:

The cost is $39 and $6 S&H = $45.

You can apply anything you want to the CB as with any other aiming system provided you know what you're doing with spin in the first place. After using the system and getting it down you will automatically be able to line up for english as you get down on the shot. It will come naturally just like ghostball, feel or whatever you use now.

Best,
Mike
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Sounds good thanks.
 
JoeyA said:
...there's a certain group of people who blame other people for their problems, refusing to look in the mirror... ....Go write that pool instruction book you've been promising to do. I'll be the first one to buy a copy...
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Amen, Brother Joey. Amen.

Lou Figueroa
I can't believe
you actually offered
to pay for something :-)
 
The ideal scenario from my perspective would to have Stan make one swing through the country giving personal lessons. I think not only would he cover expenses but he would probably pay for his production costs and make a substantial profit. I realize that this is not going to happen but boy would that be sweet. I could watch the DVD and then get answers for any questions that I might have.

In the meantime I am waiting patiently for the DVD and once again ignoring these threads. This one however was too good to pass up. Thanks Joey.

And you continous naysayers why do you waste your time? You waste our time trying, it seems, to impress us with your self acclaimed brilliance. Oh well.
 
GaryB said:
The ideal scenario from my perspective would to have Stan make one swing through the country giving personal lessons. I think not only would he cover expenses but he would probably pay for his production costs and make a substantial profit. I realize that this is not going to happen but boy would that be sweet. I could watch the DVD and then get answers for any questions that I might have.

In the meantime I am waiting patiently for the DVD and once again ignoring these threads. This one however was too good to pass up. Thanks Joey.

And you continous naysayers why do you waste your time? You waste our time trying, it seems, to impress us with your self acclaimed brilliance. Oh well.
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Maybe a trip out to Vegas for the BCAPL nationals. I plan on making the trip out for the Nationals this year :wink:
 
GaryB said:
The ideal scenario from my perspective would to have Stan make one swing through the country giving personal lessons. I think not only would he cover expenses but he would probably pay for his production costs and make a substantial profit. I realize that this is not going to happen but boy would that be sweet. I could watch the DVD and then get answers for any questions that I might have.

In the meantime I am waiting patiently for the DVD and once again ignoring these threads. This one however was too good to pass up. Thanks Joey.

And you continous naysayers why do you waste your time? You waste our time trying, it seems, to impress us with your self acclaimed brilliance. Oh well.
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Mark Griffin invited Hal to the BCAPL tournaments and said he would provide Hal a table and a space to do his thing for free. Hal declined from what I understand because of his health. He can't stand up for long.

Scott Lee often makes out to Vegas during the big events. It would be freaking AWESOME to have him and Stan and Randy all together giving a mega-aiming clinic at the biggest gathering of top amateurs in the world.

I have seen Tom "Dr. Cue" Rossmann sell out of books and training materials in minutes during one of his clinics. I have ZERO doubt that Stan's video would be snapped up especially when the proof of concept is being demonstrated right there.

Tom Rossmann demos the banking systems in the clinics and people snap up his books on them.

I should have made a how-to-jump video years ago as a companion to the jumping exhibitions I gave while selling the Bunjee Jumper.

And it would be great to have Ron Vitello be a part of this.

To my mind all these guys are doing what pool is about, continuing to progress and find better ways to pocket balls.
 
I am surprised the forum administrators have not also removed this thread. It also includes CTE commercialism and "debate."

FYI, below is a post from another thread expressing my view on the recent banning of the "CTE is silly" thread. I hope people agree with me that the AZB leadership should be very careful and cautious with censorship if they want their site to remain as a valuable resource to the pool community.

Sincerely,
Dr. Dave

Patrick Johnson:
The commercially-biased censorship here leaves a rotten taste.
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dr_dave:
I agree 100%. Honestly, I am shocked the forum administrators can be this irresponsible and inappropriate. I thought AZB was an open forum.

To me, an important function of this forum is to provide a search-able historical database of all of our discussions, debates, and contributions. Even though I didn't like the aggressive and defensive tone by a few in the thread, I thought many people contributed useful information and insight concerning the still-misunderstood center-to-edge aiming method. I think it is a terrible shame that all of this documented insight, history, and information is now lost. I hope the administrators realize their error in time and decide to restore the thread to the forum.

These debates have gone on for many, many years, and I honestly think the "CTE is silly" thread produced more useful insight than all threads in the past combined. It also created a lot of ill will and hostility, but I think that can dealt with more appropriately by warning and/or banning (temporarily or permanently) individuals and by deleting selected posts, based on solid grounds of rules violations or abuses. Removing an entire thread representing an historical record of countless hours of contributions by countless numbers of people is not an appropriate way to deal with immaturity by a small few.

This is very sad day for open-forum discussions on AZB ... very disappointing and disheartening. I think this sets a terrible precedent, and I just lost a little respect for the AZB leadership.

Again, I hope the administrators recognize their error and return the resource to the historical record (with selected posts removed, and/or with certain users banned, if deemed necessary).

Sincerely,
Dr. Dave

PS: I am now extremely glad that I have documented some of the insight, contributions, and silliness on my CTE resource page, benefits of aiming systems page, limited lines of aim page, and DAM page. I will not allow these resources to be censored by AZB or anybody else. If the AZB administrators plan to censor more stuff in the future, I will try to do an even better job of documenting as much as I can on my own site, so the information and insight won't be lost forever.​
 
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