Why Pool Halls Are Failing...

Big Perm said:
As a customer to a few local rooms, I actually do hope they fail so somebody will take them over.....I get the impression many of them could care less what their customer wants.....

IMHO, here is something that would work and something that is missing locally......if I was going to open a room, this is the direction I'd go....

1. Alcohol - every day would offer a certain drink special and certain specials during happy hour......people want to feel like they are getting a little more for their money, so make it happen....$5 wells and $6 shots just don't cut it for customers....you need a $3 drink special, $3 shot special, and a $2 beer special.......have bottles of water for $1 a piece....

2. Food - again, you need rotating food specials.....have about 10-15 offerings.....good, solid basic food that people can enjoy at a reasonable price.....a $10 burger does not cut it for the average player....

3. Playing areas - in the back or farthest area, you need a players area.....1 9 footer, with railbird seating for action, set up like a mini-tv table....another 4 nine footers for action and high level play....player area 2 is for the 8 footers, which are great for league play, tournaments and Friday/Saturday night....have about 8-12 of them, fairly close to the bar, with adequate seating......area three is on the other side of the bar, with about 4 7 footers, a poker table, darts, foosball, a golden tee game or two, and whatever else is popular at the moment......the fourth area is more of an easygoing bar, with seating and maybe even a small dancefloor/karaoke set-up.....I'd have the bar in the middle of all this, elevated with plenty of seating so you can see the whole place....

4. Cater heavy to leagues.....I do a cheap in-house Sunday tourney to get business on Sunday afternoons.....large event twice a year with added money if I could afford it......flat rate specials during the day, with some type of lunch/pool special offering - ie, you get a free hour of pool with lunch purchase or something.....lots of marketing stuff to drive business and keep daily patrons coming.....players packages, monthly memberships, all kinds of stuff....team up with some locals to have cue repair/tips done....small pro-shop with a few items for sale like cues, equipment, t-shirts....

Gawd, I would love to run a pool hall :D
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I'd love for you to run my local pool hall, except for the karaoke :banghead:. Nobody needs that sh*t goin' on while trying to play pool :sorry:!!!

Maniac
 
tsunami said:
I'm curious on this, if by political correctness you mean the smoking ban that may be correct. But I know for me personally, being a non smoker, I'm more likely to go into a pool hall now than when they were full of smoke. Although I do understand I'm in the minority probably in that community and would deal with it. I'm just curious as to what you meant by political correctness.
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I was referring to the "Politically Correct" attitude of today...not a lot of room for pool within it...Soccer a more popular game for these folks...smoking ban only part of it. It's the entire attitude that "They" somehow know what is best for all...
 
In my view the two main culprits are poker and the internet.

Internet media and gaming is the demise of several traditional past times. All major sports with the exception of football are in decline in popularity. Newspapers and network television are also in a brisk decline.

The fact is the internet gives the individual unprecedented access to information which allows them to engross themselves in the activity of their choice. This translates in to a splintered market for everything.

Billiards is in decline to be sure, but so are many other things. The silver lining is the thing that is hurting pool (the internet) just might be the thing that saves it.
 
There are definitely points about how to manage a pool hall properly.

However I believe the evolution of the internet and improvements in electronic gaming technology resonate with me:

I believe one of the reasons why Pool and other leisure sports are not attracting the youth is it is having a tough time competing with the new generation of online socializing/gaming. Even adults are playing "games" via XBOX, PS3 and Facebook. I am in the minority of wanting to play a game/sport that doesn't involved being "plugged in".

When I was younger, video games where not as sophistiscated today so you would go out and hangout with the boys and play football, basketball, etc. Later on in college I got into pool. Video games have taken it to the next level of sophistication in the last 15-20 years.

Did I mention, last count $1.4Billion (released in November) in sales for the most recent Call of Duty Black Ops video game. I'm sure the whole Call of Duty franchise has sales in the multi-billions. That's just one of hundreds of video game titles.

Thanks,
gh8st
 
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Fatboy said:
Bruce, you been around a long time. You know that when the economy has went bad in the past the pool rooms filled up because its a cheap date, your first 3 are spot on, I just disagree with #4.

Have a good holiday my friend,

Eric
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I will also ad here in the Valley of the Sun there are few Parks & Recreation Program where kids hang out that have Pool Tables. The only place where Pool is thriving is the Boys, and Girls club, most of the Clubs in the Metro Phoenix AREA are in poorer neighborhoods. So it is the kids who for the most part do not have Hi Tech Electronics, I-Pods, I-Pods, etc. who are playing pool.

Sadly the last time I spoke with the people at the Metro Phoenix Boys & Girls Club they too were hit with the recessions problems. Think they layed off 10% of there staff, as the contribution who have keep the Boys & Girls Clubs going have fallen off, so staff was laid off.
 
Why are fraternal, and social clubs failing? What happened to drive in theaters?

People are not as socialbal as they use to be. The internet caused a lot of this as many can sit at a cimputer and be entertained all day without any effort.

Plus all the other things that have already been discussed.
 
vasilios said:
The base blood for poolrooms was manufacturing and mill workers. the big cities and large communities had the large and medium rooms.the smaller towns as you traveled from cities to the country had small rooms with a grill and cold beer.Dad worked in a mill and had three sons.one of the boys hanged around the local room.the city boys had shiny shoes and clean shirts.while the country boys came out of the field.people would gather after work or during work to play a few games and talk about the future.if you made a twenty dollar score it added to what you got from you job.tomorrow always looked better than yesterday. well the mills and the factories are gone.the little towns are dead.that twenty dollar bill is worth two dollars and tomorrow looks like Armageddon.everybody is kicking into survival gear and there is nothing in a poolroom that is considered a necessity.

bill
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I think that this is right on.
 
Dad,
I love you! Where have you been. My brother and me could have really used your positive influence growing up. Sorry that mom and you could not work it out.

Seriously though. When I was growing up my Uncles and father would eat dinner and hit the halls. Some of them didn't even play (my father). I was just what they did. Go to hall and hit balls or play some cards. Now the dynamic has changed.

Nick

Perk said:
Simple:

Women now have more control in their families than the past and put a crack down on their husbands going out and playing pool for a few hours. Men have lost control of their manhood. When men get their balls back from their spouses purse, pool will rebound!
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I don't think pool halls failing is a recent event. This is trend that has been in place for more than 50 year! Who knows maybe 100 years. Well, probable not 100 years because 100 years ago results of top level billiard events were reported in the newspaper (ESPN of the day).

We have had some slight up ticks: 1) 1960's with the release of Hustler; and 2) mid to late 1980's with the release of Color of Money. However, the trend is unfavorable. It would be interesting to see how many pool rooms were in operation at the time of WWI and so on.

I believe it's short sighted to think this is a result of recent economic events or a smoking ban, because the trend was in place long before these occurred.

I suspect there is a lot of things causing this trend. Hell, our own professionals can't even organize. But, I think the main reason is because of the image of our sport (mainstream America does not consider this a sport). I know a lot of people like the bad boy and hustler image of pool, but I think its killer our sport. Another major problem is most people (manufactures, top players, ect..) are in it for themselves only. Most successful endeavors require leadership, commitment, devotion, and dedication; however, our sport lack most or all of these important ingredients.

I challenge anyone who reads this comment to answer these questions:

How many people did you encourage to join this sport last night, last week, or this last year?

When you noticed that young or less experienced player at the pool room or bar, did you:

1) encourage them, teach them something to help their game? or
2) try to figure out how much you could make and what kind of move it would take?

Now don't get me wrong, I like action just like a lot of pool players. Robbing some less experienced player maybe good for your bank roll today, but its not necessarily good for our sport in the long run.

For those action junkies, let me put it another way: you have to cultivate and fertilize before you harvest.

Steven
 
It was the early 60's and the room I learned how to play in had 8 9 foot tables. They charged $.50 per hour per person. Now all 8 tables would not be played on all day but if they were it would be $8.00 per hour from 10 AM to midnight. So they would make $112 per day which never happened.This room supported 2 owners and a houseman.The only things they sold were sodas and snacks. Lets say they would average $80 a day,thats $2400 a month and out of that they would pay gas and electric,rent and maybe insurance if they even had that. This was in a time of $1.00 an hour minimum wage.
I have no idea what the rent was but it was a free standing building on a main street.There was a small bakery attached to the building. Maybe they owned the building and the bakery paid them rent,I have no idea.
Just shows you how times have changed.
 
thebook said:
why are fraternal, and social clubs failing? What happened to drive in theaters?

People are not as socialbal as they use to be. The internet caused a lot of this as many can sit at a cimputer and be entertained all day without any effort.

Plus all the other things that have already been discussed.
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great observation!
 
My dad owned a little furniture store with my uncle Teddy as his partner. They each took home 300 a week after expenses. As I recall the rent for this store in an old building was 250 a month. It was the size of a pool hall. We were upper middle class. My friends dads that worked for wages made 150 a week. My pool hall in Kingston, Pa. had 15 GLC1s (all gold) no food or booze, just a soda, snack machine and an El Toro pinball machine. Two men owned it and raised their families off table time. This was 1965- I was 12.
 
Gmanpoke said:
I challenge anyone who reads this comment to answer these questions:

How many people did you encourage to join this sport last night, last week, or this last year?

When you noticed that young or less experienced player at the pool room or bar, did you:

1) encourage them, teach them something to help their game? or
2) try to figure out how much you could make and what kind of move it would take?

Now don't get me wrong, I like action just like a lot of pool players. Robbing some less experienced player maybe good for your bank roll today, but its not necessarily good for our sport in the long run.

For those action junkies, let me put it another way: you have to cultivate and fertilize before you harvest.

Steven
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And here we have the true bottom line, don't we?

Tap, tap, tap. :thumbup:
 
I would also add that some Room/Bar Owner drive off customers because they do not do the things that cost ZERO.

Greet customers.

Talk to customers.

Say thank you to customers for coming to their Bar/Room.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
I would also add that some Room/Bar Owner drive off customers because they do not do the things that cost ZERO.

Greet customers.

Talk to customers.

Say thank you to customers for coming to their Bar/Room.
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Customer service is very important and I'm sure some pool players will not return to a certain pool room because they believe their business is not appreciated. But, I think something bigger than poor service is the why so many pool rooms have closed down over the years.

I think its because we have less and less interest in playing pool. And, I think is stems from mainstream America's view of pool players and the sport in general. Yes, we have our leagues with large memberships, but these are really social outings. This is not a dig on leagues. Just most league members are not trying to be pool players, they are there to socialize. I hate to think where our sport would be without the APA.

I'm challenging every AZ member. Every AZ member make this their new years resolution: In 2011, every AZ member introduce pool to 5 people who don't play pool. I don't care if they are 5 or 105. Take them to a pool room and teach them the game. Introduce them to other players. Invite them over to your house to play on your table (if you have one) or watch a live stream of tournament. Hell, take them to a tournament.

And, I challenge all room owners, if your regular customers bring in someone new, reward them. Give them free pool time, cheap case, tip tool, cash, whatever motivates your regular customers to bring in new customers.

For this sport to survive, for pool rooms to survive we need more pool players. It really is that simple. The hard part is how do we bring in new players. I heard Johnny Archer say once, he wanted sponsors to step up and support the professional players. Well, let me suggest that if there are enough pool players and they are buying products, Johnny Archer will not have to worry about sponsors stepping up any more.

Steven
 
100%!

Gmanpoke said:
I don't think pool halls failing is a recent event. This is trend that has been in place for more than 50 year! Who knows maybe 100 years. Well, probable not 100 years because 100 years ago results of top level billiard events were reported in the newspaper (ESPN of the day).

We have had some slight up ticks: 1) 1960's with the release of Hustler; and 2) mid to late 1980's with the release of Color of Money. However, the trend is unfavorable. It would be interesting to see how many pool rooms were in operation at the time of WWI and so on.

I believe it's short sighted to think this is a result of recent economic events or a smoking ban, because the trend was in place long before these occurred.

I suspect there is a lot of things causing this trend. Hell, our own professionals can't even organize. But, I think the main reason is because of the image of our sport (mainstream America does not consider this a sport). I know a lot of people like the bad boy and hustler image of pool, but I think its killer our sport. Another major problem is most people (manufactures, top players, ect..) are in it for themselves only. Most successful endeavors require leadership, commitment, devotion, and dedication; however, our sport lack most or all of these important ingredients.

I challenge anyone who reads this comment to answer these questions:

How many people did you encourage to join this sport last night, last week, or this last year?

When you noticed that young or less experienced player at the pool room or bar, did you:

1) encourage them, teach them something to help their game? or
2) try to figure out how much you could make and what kind of move it would take?

Now don't get me wrong, I like action just like a lot of pool players. Robbing some less experienced player maybe good for your bank roll today, but its not necessarily good for our sport in the long run.

For those action junkies, let me put it another way: you have to cultivate and fertilize before you harvest.

Steven
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"I wish I would have written this!"

Seems to me, most folks want to hear, exactly what they want to hear, and that don't usually mean the truth! Tell it like it IS!
 
Fatboy said:
Jay, I think you figured it out and didnt realize it. we have 2.2 million people incarcerated, now we all know that pool dosent attract the country club crowd, never has. I think that a huge population of pool room bums, rail birds and players are locked up. We have the highest lock-up rate in the world. its 8 times higher than Germany, 10 times higher than France. Sentences are longer than ever.

"Our" friend in Vegas got 28 months a few years ago. Today he would have got 40 years, I know guys who did less than he did and got 20-30 year long bids. The prison system is crushing the poolrooms with longer sentances and more convictions. They are stealing our people. Drug dealers were the best stake horses, dont see as many of those guys nowdays, a few but not like it was. Remember the 70's, everyone got 5-life and got out in 2 1/2 years??? Now they keep people locked up forever its a thriving business. In the gyms at the joints these days are stacked 3 high with bunk beds, over crowding is a gross understatement. Hell in Az they have them sleeping in tent cities on the yard, due to lack of space. The fringe element has awalys been the pool room's back bone customers-now they are locked up. I swear to God I'm right on this one.
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Fatboy....you just listed several of the reasons "Pool halls" have had such a black eye for such a very long time...THE very reasons you listed is why it's so hard to open rooms with pool tables in a lot of major cities....in Seattle no "Poolroom" defined by "hourly rental tables" shall be available to the public on ground floor...."as to NOT expose the good citizens of Seattle to the undesirable elements that often frequent such establishments, therefore they must be located either in a basement, or second floor or higher"

Glen;)
 
There is a Bar that is still open in Phoenix on the EAST SIDE, he has FOUR- 25 CENT Tables, and the Owner & or his Wife are there most of the day. They make it a point to talk to, greet, and thank customers for coming to their Bar.

The have creative promotions on Sunday like NFL Package, and some FREE CHOW during the game. They understand 40 BUCKS worth of Hot Dogs, and Bean keep the customer in the bar, during the game.

They cater to the recreational players, and are hanging on. But they too are in a hurt mode because of the economy.

People keep going back there because of the efforts of this guy, and his wife.


BTW the Title say POOL HALLS, in the Valley of the Sun I would say 95% of the Pool Halls being place that serve BEER only, and NO WINE, OR HARD LIQUOR would CLOSE FAST if BEER SALES STOPPED.
 
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CocoboloCowboy said:
There is a Bar that is still open in Phoenix on the EAST SIDE, he has FOUR- 25 CENT Tables, and the Owner & or his Wife are there most of the day. They make it a point to talk to, greet, and thank customers for coming to their Bar.

The have creative promotions on Sunday like NFL Package, and some FREE CHOW during the game. They understand 40 BUCKS worth of Hot Dogs, and Bean keep the customer in the bar, during the game.

They cater to the recreational players, and are hanging on. But they too are in a hurt mode because of the economy.

People keep going back there because of the efforts of this guy, and his wife.
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25-cent pool, hot dogs and beans??? Shoot, I'd hang out there everyday!!!
Hot dogs and beans, ummmmm-ummm-um, that's eatin' like a KING!!! :thumbup: Wash it all down with some root beer and I'd be ready to shoot some mean pool ;).

Maniac
 
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