Why Pool Halls Are Failing...

Pool halls fail simply because they're "Pool halls" Any business that insists on operating on "Last years" business plan instead of "todays" plan is going to fail no matter what. Failure may be as simple as a new room opening in the area...which offers more today than the competition does. One of the biggest signs that a room is going to fail today...is if they still refer to it as a "Pool Hall" Todays clientèle are wanting more for their dollar, which includes food and drinks....and I don't mean Pepsi and hot dogs. Pool tables that are maintained for the "bangers" are a nail in the coffin in the long run...because the message sent to the customers is...."You are not good enough to play on our best tables!"

Food, alcohol, good condition equipment, clean bathrooms, and polite employee's...pool leagues, and fair prices....are all the requirements of todays customers....don't offer it....don't stay in business...it's that simple.

All the overhead associated with staying in business....is much easier to pay...when you have customers!....STOP thinking "Pool halls" should be allowed to remain in business....as a chairity....because they're NOT!

Glen
 
There is no question in my mind that when the smoking ban began to spread from State to State, it definitely hurt pool room businesses.

Though some pool rooms have tried to increase their profitability by serving alcohol and having numerous flat screen TVs for sports events, it is still a tough business in larger metropolitan areas where the rent is high.

I personally prefer the pool rooms that do *not* sell alcohol. There is a greater emphasis on playing pool, more so than other social activities.

The neighborhood pool room is long gone in my area, and it is sorely missed. I do not know what the answer is to have pool room businesses become viable, but it is true that the pool room is nothing without its "regulars." If a pool room can attract a large group of people, there is nothing better than this kind of social setting for pool players and enthusiasts. It is like walking into the home of an old friend. :)

Good food and alternative beverages to alcohol is what I would recommend. When people are comfortable, they want to hang out longer; thus, spending money and keeping the pool room afloat.
 
JAM said:
There is no question in my mind that when the smoking ban began to spread from State to State, it definitely hurt pool room businesses.

Though some pool rooms have tried to increase their profitability by serving alcohol and having numerous flat screen TVs for sports events, it is still a tough business in larger metropolitan areas where the rent is high.

I personally prefer the pool rooms that do *not* sell alcohol. There is a greater emphasis on playing pool, more so than other social activities.

The neighborhood pool room is long gone in my area, and it is sorely missed. I do not know what the answer is to have pool room businesses become viable, but it is true that the pool room is nothing without its "regulars." If a pool room can attract a large group of people, there is nothing better than this kind of social setting for pool players and enthusiasts. It is like walking into the home of an old friend. :)

Good food and alternative beverages to alcohol is what I would recommend. When people are comfortable, they want to hang out longer; thus, spending money and keeping the pool room afloat.
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I have been to many pool rooms that were dead with customers...yet close by a Fox & Hounds is packed....and EVERYONE of the tables are filled...while the "pool hall" sits there empty like a business...with the lights shut off;)
 
Celtic said:
I think alot of it up here in Canada is that most pool halls fail to realize that people want a more relaxing casual atmosphere and more complete experience of eating, drinking, watching some sports/TV, and playing some pool, all rolled into one.

Truth is the "This is Ames, we don't have a TV, don't have a bar, don't have nothing really other then pool" attitude does not work with todays crowd of younger people that grew up with video games, reality TV, MMA, and all the other massive media doses that killed their attention spans for singular things.

You need to have a nice booth for each table where people can sit and chat, put drinks, ect... people cannot be stuck up against a rail sitting on an uncomfortable stool trying not to spill their drink and dodge waitresses. You need the big screen TV. If you are the pool room owner that thinks that jukebox that makes $2 each 6 songs and that must be plugged or else your whole place is in silence is "making" you money you are wrong, the silent pool hall is losing you business to that pub that plays tunes and is now selling those people $12 rounds each 20 minutes while they sit, chat, and plug a bar box.

The reason why the true "pool hall" makes no money? Because people who come to your place to play pool are going to spend way less money then a person who is comming to your place with some friends or a date as a night out. You need the latter to make the money.

Most of the pool halls I know of that are doing well are not catering to pool players, they are catering to people who enjoy playing pool. There is a big difference.
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Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!!! :thumbup:

I live in a smallish city, and we have 4 places to play pool. Only one of them would be called a "pool hall", 16 tables, and it's the one that struggles to stay open. (Admittedly, they have a tough rent situation, which does contribute to their challenges. And they do at least have a TV with sports on, a jukebox, and they do serve alcohol, too. And a small selection of pool equipment for sale. They are trying to make it work.)

The club I belong to has 5 tables, and is a private club, so it is different. There is another bar with 5 tables, 2 of them 9 footers. And there is a "sports entertainment complex" with twenty 9 footers. It's a big set of buildings, with a 20 lane bowling center, sports bar with over 20 tv's, big section of video games, and a seperate bar area away from everything else. But that is four different places to play in a city of 35K. Not counting the various places that have one or two tables in them.

And we've had a statewide smoking ban for 7 or 8 years now.

The message is it can't be just about pool. These places "get it", and make it work.
 
Just my obversation but I have heard more than one pool room and club owner state that poker has hurt their business. It started with the televising of poker and just like "The Hustler" and "Color of Money" helping garner enthusiam for pool, all the poker websites and televised poker has made poker players out of millions of people.
 
Simple:

Women now have more control in their families than the past and put a crack down on their husbands going out and playing pool for a few hours. Men have lost control of their manhood. When men get their balls back from their spouses purse, pool will rebound!
 
Perk said:
Simple:

Women now have more control in their families than the past and put a crack down on their husbands going out and playing pool for a few hours. Men have lost control of their manhood. When men get their balls back from their spouses purse, pool will rebound!
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So what....the decline of pool can be blamed on "child support" and "attorneys fees" as well:D...for that "MAN" that took his balls back:D
 
All the reasons that have been mentioned are valid and true. Another couple reasons are they do absolutely nothing to get the younger kids in the door. They do not even supply free cues for customers to play with. When I was 14 and first started to play I had zero interest in buying a pool cue bit after playing with my pals and getting hooked on pool I did buy one. But I never would have played in the beginning if they had not supplied pool cues to play with. One more thing I see is marketing or I should say a lack of it. I play in a league and the owner seems to have zero interest on knowledge of marketing his facility. Combine these with an economic crisis and the results are fairly predictable. If I owned a pool hall I'd be racking my brain to figure out how to get kids in during certain hours on certain days even for free just to get them interested. Pool is a lot of fun but sadly the kids never get to learn this one simple fact. When I was young the pool hall was the place to go and very few folks were over 30 there..
Dan
 
Luvthegame said:
Just my obversation but I have heard more than one pool room and club owner state that poker has hurt their business.
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Many things named on this thread contribute to the demise of today's pool halls. Not any one of them on it's own, but a conglomeration of the ones listed. Poker has definitely been a part of the reason. Here's why: The youth of today has a totally different mindset of past generations. They want something and they want it NOW. Technology has put the world on a faster pace. Everything comes in an INSTANT anymore. So when a young person (who ALL have this great will and need to WIN) goes into a pool hall and gets his little butt spanked for some cash, they eventually turn to poker. Why? Because poker doesn't require the TIME it takes pool to become proficient at. The "luck-of-the-draw" factor comes into play, whereas in pool you have to get good enough to make a run. So a young man/woman can succeed at poker FASTER (at least in THEIR minds) without having to put in countless hours of practice/instruction/etc. They just don't want to invest the time it takes to learn how to properly play the game of pool. Sure, you still have plenty of recreational bangers playing, but they won't tie up a table for more than an hour or two, where the "real" player will play/practice for HOURS, many times with a partner.

Smoking bans run some off as they cannot fade the urge to smoke for more time than it takes to play a set or two. Shame.

The sad state of the economy is most definitely a large factor.

The food/drink/music/games (i.e. Sports Bar) is another reason people are leaving the "old school" poolhalls. Look at it like a big-box shopping center slogan: "One-stop shopping".

We have in my area a "pool hall" that has 14 tables (12 8-ft. and 2 9-ft.). The cues on the wall aren't good firewood. The racks on the tables are the cheapest plastic racks that money can buy. The T.V.'s are old 25"analogs. They don't serve food. They don't run drink specials. But.....there is a happy hour for pool. Fairly cheap pool. Guess what? On any given day (except Friday and Saturday nights) you rarely see ANYONE on the tables. On league nights (I shoot out of that hall 2 nights a week), most of the time the league teams are the only ones using the tables. The "Sports Bar" that I shoot league out of on another night is totally packed. But then many (and some massive in size) flat screen T.V.'s, food, shuffleboard leagues, dart leagues, etc. will keep 'em coming, I must say.

For the most part, the "old school" pool hall is a dying breed. This too is a shame, because I always loved the ambience of those places!!!

Maniac
 
I think some of it has to do with the amount of idiots patronizing the place. But that is just me.
 
1. Pool is no longer cool, (with the younger generation) it has been replaced with electronics. In Willie Mosconi's book, "Willie's Game" Mosconi draws a good Pool time line, Pool has been declining since the year of "HIS BIRTH" 1913.

2. Room/Bar Owners in some part of the USA do not work in one direction, they do not cooperate with one another. It is Kill or Destroy the other guy mentality

3. Technology is replacing Pool. video Games, I-Pods, I-Pads, Electronic Games.

4. RECESSION.


JMHO.
 
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tsunami said:
I'm curious on this, if by political correctness you mean the smoking ban that may be correct. But I know for me personally, being a non smoker, I'm more likely to go into a pool hall now than when they were full of smoke. Although I do understand I'm in the minority probably in that community and would deal with it. I'm just curious as to what you meant by political correctness.
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I'm with you, I despise a room that allows smoking. Virginia supposedly banned smoking but put a loophole in the law so that businesses could actually bring smoking back so long as the area was ventilated seperately from the non smoking area.
 
Celtic said:
I think alot of it up here in Canada is that most pool halls fail to realize that people want a more relaxing casual atmosphere and more complete experience of eating, drinking, watching some sports/TV, and playing some pool, all rolled into one.

Truth is the "This is Ames, we don't have a TV, don't have a bar, don't have nothing really other then pool" attitude does not work with todays crowd of younger people that grew up with video games, reality TV, MMA, and all the other massive media doses that killed their attention spans for singular things.

You need to have a nice booth for each table where people can sit and chat, put drinks, ect... people cannot be stuck up against a rail sitting on an uncomfortable stool trying not to spill their drink and dodge waitresses. You need the big screen TV. If you are the pool room owner that thinks that jukebox that makes $2 each 6 songs and that must be plugged or else your whole place is in silence is "making" you money you are wrong, the silent pool hall is losing you business to that pub that plays tunes and is now selling those people $12 rounds each 20 minutes while they sit, chat, and plug a bar box.

The reason why the true "pool hall" makes no money? Because people who come to your place to play pool are going to spend way less money then a person who is comming to your place with some friends or a date as a night out. You need the latter to make the money.

Most of the pool halls I know of that are doing well are not catering to pool players, they are catering to people who enjoy playing pool. There is a big difference.
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You hit the nail on the head.

Here is something Ive found over at a sports bar in West Phoenix.

Over the last 5 weeks, participation for our Friday night night 8-ball tournament has gone from 8-13 player average to 16-22 players. The bar only has 2 tables, but we have regulars and people from other west side locales come in and enjoy it.

One of the reasons they enjoy it is because I cater to players enjoying the bar, not being forced to sit and be ready for their game. The sports bar has a huge outdoor area with a BBQ pit for food, a stage for music, full smoking areas outside, and PLENTY of heating lamps, which keep 80% of the area warm in winter.

If you are up, or coming up, I will go find you no matter where you are. I don't play stupid games like... if you're not here when its your turn you lose mentality.

We attract an 8 player on occasion, a few 7's and mostly 5 or 6's. But the key is we make it fun, not a grind-out event. The house pays 100% of the purse, and $5.00 tourneys will few strings attached is like paying for a drink to have a chance at fun and competition.

What the poster here said is correct... the billiard hall only motif will limit your customer base. And guess what? Hard core players looking for money and money games will sit all night drinking cokes or water.

Not going to survive long with that kind of customer base.
 
"?"

Kickin' Chicken said:
Recently, and currently, there have been a number of notices here about pool halls closing.

Can anyone share what they feel it is that is causing this?

When you see a pool hall that has been in biz for 50 years going down, you tend to think that it's not to do with bad management, though, perhaps there may have been a lack of effort to change with the changing times.

Billiards Ink looked like a gorgeous place; what happened there? Didn't they just recently reopen under new ownership (former NFL player?)?

Is it just the crappy economy?

Has poker taken away too much from the potential pool demographic? :confused:

Any thoughts?

Best,
Brian kc
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This thread is filled with good reasons for a business to fail in any economy. Pool must be "one-hellova" game to have survived all of that!

My single question is, "how many kids do you see playing the game today?" The future of any sport, is always in their hands!
 
The title of this thread could also be "Why restaurants are failing." Or "Why clothing stores are failing." Or "Why any store is failing."

It's a tough economy out there and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. This is a time of reckoning for America and the whole world. I think our society has slipped a notch in quality of life and it will never come back. We seem to be on a slippery slope downward.

There are many reasons for this and some are very unpleasant ones. A small number of very greedy individuals amassed great fortunes at the expense of the rest of us. That's the short answer. The disruption of Islamic fundamentalists worldwide isn't helping things either.

The bad news is it only looks like it's going to get worse, not better. Watch a few of the daytime shows on television like Jerry Springer and a few others, and you'll get an idea of the general level of intelligence of many Americans. What chance would these fools have in a crisis? The answer is NONE!

We still have some good minds in this country, lots of them, but they are in declining numbers. And the idiots are fast taking over! Millions in prison and a whole penitentiary culture (and mega-corporation). Forget the Mafia, that was child's play compared to the massive street gangs that exist now in every city in our country. And the "religious right" has brain washed the minds of millions more, who only know they should be upset about abortion and gays, while they are being robbed blind. HELLO!
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
1. Pool is no longer cool, it has been replaced with electronics. In Willie Mosconi's book, "Willie's Game" Mosconi draws a good Pool time line, Pool has been declining since the year of "HIS BIRTH" 1913.

2. Room/Bar Owners in some part of the USA do not work in one direction, they do not cooperate with one another. It is Kill or Destroy the other guy mentality

3. Technology is replacing Pool. video Games, I-Pods, I-Pads, Electronic Games.

4. RECESSION.


JMHO.
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Bruce, you been around a long time. You know that when the economy has went bad in the past the pool rooms filled up because its a cheap date, your first 3 are spot on, I just disagree with #4.

Have a good holiday my friend,

Eric
 
jay helfert said:
We still have some good minds in this country, lots of them, but they are in declining numbers. And the idiots are fast taking over! Millions in prison and a whole penitentiary culture (and mega-corporation). Forget the Mafia, that was child's play compared to the massive street gangs that exist now in every city in our country. And the "religious right" has brain washed the minds of millions more, who only know they should be upset about abortion and gays, while they are being robbed blind. HELLO!
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Jay, I think you figured it out and didnt realize it. we have 2.2 million people incarcerated, now we all know that pool dosent attract the country club crowd, never has. I think that a huge population of pool room bums, rail birds and players are locked up. We have the highest lock-up rate in the world. its 8 times higher than Germany, 10 times higher than France. Sentences are longer than ever.

"Our" friend in Vegas got 28 months a few years ago. Today he would have got 40 years, I know guys who did less than he did and got 20-30 year long bids. The prison system is crushing the poolrooms with longer sentances and more convictions. They are stealing our people. Drug dealers were the best stake horses, dont see as many of those guys nowdays, a few but not like it was. Remember the 70's, everyone got 5-life and got out in 2 1/2 years??? Now they keep people locked up forever its a thriving business. In the gyms at the joints these days are stacked 3 high with bunk beds, over crowding is a gross understatement. Hell in Az they have them sleeping in tent cities on the yard, due to lack of space. The fringe element has awalys been the pool room's back bone customers-now they are locked up. I swear to God I'm right on this one.
 
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How about this little factoid I just learned from an unnamed source?! :(

The United Statse has a GDP (gross domestic product) growth rate of negative 2.4 percent, but China has a 10 percent growth rate, followed by India at 8.4 percent.

But wait, there's more. The five fastest growing economies in the world today are as follows: Ghana, 20 percent; Qatar, 14 percent; Turkmenistan, 12 percent; China, 10 percent, and Liberia, 9 percent. India is closely following at 8.4 percent.

The total population of China and India is over 2.5 billion. The United States has 300 million or 5 percent of the world's population.

The numbers are staggering, but there's a remedy to all this, and it's called innovation, and demand is greater outside of our own borders than inside our borders today.

How will this bit of knowledge help pool rooms flourish and survive? I am not sure, but it is definitely something to think about as it pertains to the American economy. Green technology and health care are the two fields that could definitely give a boost.

Maybe here's a motto to promote pool. Play pool to be healthy and shoot pool with a cue made from sustainable wood. There you go, that's the ticket. Problem solved. :thumbup:
 
Fatboy said:
Bruce, you been around a long time. You know that when the economy has went bad in the past the pool rooms filled up because its a cheap date, your first 3 are spot on, I just disagree with #4.

Have a good holiday my friend,

Eric
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Eric,
It used to be a cheap date. The movies ain't a cheap date anymore. In most rooms here 2 people for 2 hrs (movie run) will be around 24 bucks no food. You will spend basically the same for a movie as you will the same time in a pool hall. The difference is your houseman isn't Adam Sandler.

I just looked up some commercial rent in NJ 9000 for 3300 sqr ft (10 table room) it's not a winning proposition here. Especially since alcohol is a no-no in most towns regards to pool halls. Although there are a few....

JV
 
As a customer to a few local rooms, I actually do hope they fail so somebody will take them over.....I get the impression many of them could care less what their customer wants.....

IMHO, here is something that would work and something that is missing locally......if I was going to open a room, this is the direction I'd go....

1. Alcohol - every day would offer a certain drink special and certain specials during happy hour......people want to feel like they are getting a little more for their money, so make it happen....$5 wells and $6 shots just don't cut it for customers....you need a $3 drink special, $3 shot special, and a $2 beer special.......have bottles of water for $1 a piece....

2. Food - again, you need rotating food specials.....have about 10-15 offerings.....good, solid basic food that people can enjoy at a reasonable price.....a $10 burger does not cut it for the average player....

3. Playing areas - in the back or farthest area, you need a players area.....1 9 footer, with railbird seating for action, set up like a mini-tv table....another 4 nine footers for action and high level play....player area 2 is for the 8 footers, which are great for league play, tournaments and Friday/Saturday night....have about 8-12 of them, fairly close to the bar, with adequate seating......area three is on the other side of the bar, with about 4 7 footers, a poker table, darts, foosball, a golden tee game or two, and whatever else is popular at the moment......the fourth area is more of an easygoing bar, with seating and maybe even a small dancefloor/karaoke set-up.....I'd have the bar in the middle of all this, elevated with plenty of seating so you can see the whole place....

4. Cater heavy to leagues.....I do a cheap in-house Sunday tourney to get business on Sunday afternoons.....large event twice a year with added money if I could afford it......flat rate specials during the day, with some type of lunch/pool special offering - ie, you get a free hour of pool with lunch purchase or something.....lots of marketing stuff to drive business and keep daily patrons coming.....players packages, monthly memberships, all kinds of stuff....team up with some locals to have cue repair/tips done....small pro-shop with a few items for sale like cues, equipment, t-shirts....

Gawd, I would love to run a pool hall :D
 
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