running out/planning positio

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
When you are planning your runout (9ball), do you have a thought process? Like for instance, you got ball in hand, what's the first thought going though your head when you look at the layout? What's the 2nd thought? And so on... How do you deside your pattern?

I've been guilty of being lazy and not properly planning sometimes and it bites me in the ass. Just wondering if you had a process or checklist you think about before your run.
 
I look to see which balls can be made by having my cue ball in the center of the table. I also look to see which balls cannot be made from there - and plan accordingly. If I have to leave center table with my cue ball, I do what I have to do and then I get whitey back there as soon as possible. Of course that strategy changes due to tie-ups and clusters, but when the balls are spread well, I pretty much stick with the center of the table rule.
 
Look at any clusters/tied up/problem balls/balls that are difficult to get position to.

Sometimes you can get to them earlier than needed, while leaving position on your next ball. Sometimes you have to wait, but always look for a two-way shot on position when breaking out, or a shot that will give you the best chance of being able to have a clear view of your next ball.

Pay attention to what side of the ball you need your cue ball to be on. This is huge and easily missed, especially if you get lazy or careless.

Distance between your cue ball and object ball is also huge. You don't have to get too close, but an extra foot or two with the right angle gives you a ton of more options, than if you were to be too close. Pro's do this a lot- shoot into position that "lengthens" their angle.

Make it easy. Three balls at a time. Be sure you get on the right (double entendre) side.
 
Way more than straight pool, 9 Ball patterns are pretty much dictated by the layout. After identifying the problems I try to make special note of any critical shots. These are shots for which the position zones are small and exact as well as what shots absolutely require being on the correct side in order to successfully get out. While I don't mentally run the whole rack backwards, I do look at the 9 and the ball before to determine the best way to play those when I get there.

After the above, I plan my first 3 ball sequence and give it a go.
 
Other than hacking the 9, my thoughts go like this:

-IS the table runnable? No clusters?
if yes, then plan 3 balls at a time, trying to leave about a half ball hit/angle to get on each ball.

if no, then i look for the best ball to play to, to play safe. Better yet, can I use BIH to open a cluster and play safe at the same time? Or, can I play safe and send the OB for a decent combo on the 9 (assuming I get him to foul again)

Once the table is runnable, just bear down on making balls. Dont over do "playing position". Keep it simple and run out.


Eric
 
Planning is for pussies and communists. You think KP plans his run out's? I think not sir....I think not.

Kenny-Powers.jpeg
 
I look for problem balls. If there are none, I just go by the standard 2 balls ahead. If there is a problem, I figure out how to solve it before doing anything.
 
When you are planning your runout (9ball), do you have a thought process? Like for instance, you got ball in hand, what's the first thought going though your head when you look at the layout? What's the 2nd thought? And so on... How do you deside your pattern?

I've been guilty of being lazy and not properly planning sometimes and it bites me in the ass. Just wondering if you had a process or checklist you think about before your run.

People have written books on this subject! Honestly, I bet if you really cornered someone on these topics, they could talk all day about them.

I'll start off by saying you have to focus on pocketing the shot infront of you so thought #1 should be - what will it take to pocket this ball?

From there, you determine what you're capable of doing with the cueball. What's natural and what can you force. If you have ball-in-hand, then you'll likely have plenty of options (different pockets and different angles) to choose from. Once again, you're looking for what's natural while trying to pocket the ball.

After that, you have to come up with a destination for where you want the cue ball to be. Even though there are going to be tables that are difficult to run, we'll stick with the fairly easy layouts for now. You want to think in terms of 3 ball patterns. If you're shooting at the 1, you'll want position on the 2 that will get you position on the 3.

Once all of this is determined, you go right back to your first thought - make the ball. What's added now is the spin and speed you wish to apply so you can get position.

If you can do this on each and every shot, nobody should ever call you lazy.
 
First of course is deciding how many balls you intend to run. Can you run out or will you make 2 and play a lockup safety.

The decision to try and run out or play safe will start by looking for clusters to be broken out and occasionally shortcuts that a simple combination can provide. Why leave a hanger if its the 8 if the 7 and 9 are on the other end of the table if the combo would not make the odds too much harder to start the attempt?

The human brain does more beneath the surface than can ever be imagined. So the best bet is to feed it all the information you can at the start of the turn at the table.

Lots of people say they only play 3 balls ahead but I think they are only consciously playing 3 balls ahead and the world class players have actually fed the brain the information about the whole rack as to what the proper side is for each ball is... You work backwards from the 9 and you can quickly pick the proper side of the prior ball to be on....

You then worry about the first 1-3 balls and try and stay on plan... If you fail on position your subconscious will help you decide on how to shoot a recovery to stay on plan or if it's time to reevaluate your prior decision.

I see lots of players who are more than capable of playing the game at a higher level fail in the area of reevaluating. The table was open when they started and by george they intend to run out regardless of the fact that they fell on the wrong side of a ball and now have to shoot a circus shot...

I am not a fan of Mike Davis' stroke and it hurts my head to watch him play but I will give him credit for possibly being the single most hard headed individual when it comes to reevaluating his patterns. He gets a little out of line and he's playing safe. I think Souquet is the prototype for this style of play but he's so rarely out of his position that it's not quite as obvious.

Make a plan, execute the plan..... If at some point you are not where you thought you were going... Reevaluate and think safe... If you were planning the run out and you are not where you intended the odds have just swung drastically or you would have planned to be on the side you ended up on...

Decide to only shoot the right shots and before long you'll be making the game look easy. Keep shooting circus shots for recovery ALL the time and you will have some nights where you look like a god for a few matches only to leave out of the money wondering how you lost because you had been playing SOOOOO good........
 
First of course is deciding how many balls you intend to run. Can you run out or will you make 2 and play a lockup safety.

The decision to try and run out or play safe will start by looking for clusters to be broken out and occasionally shortcuts that a simple combination can provide. Why leave a hanger if its the 8 if the 7 and 9 are on the other end of the table if the combo would not make the odds too much harder to start the attempt?

The human brain does more beneath the surface than can ever be imagined. So the best bet is to feed it all the information you can at the start of the turn at the table.

Lots of people say they only play 3 balls ahead but I think they are only consciously playing 3 balls ahead and the world class players have actually fed the brain the information about the whole rack as to what the proper side is for each ball is... You work backwards from the 9 and you can quickly pick the proper side of the prior ball to be on....

You then worry about the first 1-3 balls and try and stay on plan... If you fail on position your subconscious will help you decide on how to shoot a recovery to stay on plan or if it's time to reevaluate your prior decision.

I see lots of players who are more than capable of playing the game at a higher level fail in the area of reevaluating. The table was open when they started and by george they intend to run out regardless of the fact that they fell on the wrong side of a ball and now have to shoot a circus shot...

I am not a fan of Mike Davis' stroke and it hurts my head to watch him play but I will give him credit for possibly being the single most hard headed individual when it comes to reevaluating his patterns. He gets a little out of line and he's playing safe. I think Souquet is the prototype for this style of play but he's so rarely out of his position that it's not quite as obvious.

Make a plan, execute the plan..... If at some point you are not where you thought you were going... Reevaluate and think safe... If you were planning the run out and you are not where you intended the odds have just swung drastically or you would have planned to be on the side you ended up on...

Decide to only shoot the right shots and before long you'll be making the game look easy. Keep shooting circus shots for recovery ALL the time and you will have some nights where you look like a god for a few matches only to leave out of the money wondering how you lost because you had been playing SOOOOO good........


This is nonsense.
 
The reason I ask is I recently have been trying to force myself to think about and play the *correct* position to make the runout easier. Meaning, like shots where you have multiple ways you can go to get to the next shot, which way to do you choose? Use high/inside english off one rail? Use low/outside off 2 rails? Things like that.

I recently starting taking lessons with the lovely and talented Jenn Barretta. So far, she has been a wonderful coach. Our lessons have been all about shooting the correct shot and playing the correct position. I'm already seeing things different and starting to understand why you take one way over the other. For anyone looking for lessons, I would highly suggest Jenn.

The past few days I've been thinking about how I should go about planning a run out, here are the steps i've thought of.

1. Where would I want to be on the next two balls if I had ball in hand?
2. Use no rails/1 rail/multiple rails?
3. What route makes speed control less important? (can I over/under hit the ball and still have a shot?)
4.Does the english needed for that route make the ball too hard to pocket?
 
Well if you come from the Buddy Hall School of thought start with bottom right and if it gets you there use it.... LOL

Seriously tho most people have to play to their strengths... Where some players can control 1 rail position effectively others tend to move the ball multiple rails in efforts to approach the next object ball along the angle they intend to shoot it so they are not crossing over aiming lines and ending up on the right side of the ball.

This is exactly what Jenn appears to have you working on so you are heading in the right direction. The list you have is actually pretty good start.

Until you have no weaknesses you still will have to determine the best shot for you. After you have eliminated the weaknesses the shot will determine itself. You have seen enough pro pool to know aside from the pinoys most of the professionals play with what is called a flat cue ball.. minimal movement... minimal spin.... maximum precision on speed....

If you don't have the Advanced Pro Book it does a pretty good job of starting a selection of tools to keep in your box. I have the book and the videos and occasionally go back to them and do a few sessions of refreshing.

I would say any position drills that force you into shooting angles with different english than you are comfortable with would be as effective.

My biggest flaw is the over use of draw. I am comfortable with the lower hemisphere so I find myself going multiple rails to get into zones that I could have followed or stunned a foot to get to. I play to my strength because I don't devote enough time to my weaknesses to be able to always shoot the right shot......

But this is all nonsense... I am sure Jenn explained that shooting the right shots won't make you any better :rolleyes:
 
This probably isn't as high-level as everybody else's suggestions, but it is a portion of what I do for runout planning. When I approach the table, I consciously look at each ball on the table, in turn from the 1 to the 9, so I get a general feel for how I need to move around the table without focusing on how to hit a particular shot. Once I have the table layout in the back of my mind, I focus on breakouts I might need, and then start planning my first three shots.

Hope that's some help.
 
When you are planning your runout (9ball), do you have a thought process? Like for instance, you got ball in hand, what's the first thought going though your head when you look at the layout? What's the 2nd thought? And so on... How do you deside your pattern?

I've been guilty of being lazy and not properly planning sometimes and it bites me in the ass. Just wondering if you had a process or checklist you think about before your run.
FYI, several things good to think about are demonstrated here:

Enjoy,
Dave
 
When you are planning your runout (9ball), do you have a thought process? Like for instance, you got ball in hand, what's the first thought going though your head when you look at the layout? What's the 2nd thought? And so on... How do you deside your pattern?

I've been guilty of being lazy and not properly planning sometimes and it bites me in the ass. Just wondering if you had a process or checklist you think about before your run.


I look the the table over when it's my shot and see the run of the table with the (least amount of cue ball movement) with (least amount of cue ball bumpage) and go from there, and that's the correct way to run the balls!


David Harcrow
 
The reason I ask is I recently have been trying to force myself to think about and play the *correct* position to make the runout easier. Meaning, like shots where you have multiple ways you can go to get to the next shot, which way to do you choose? Use high/inside english off one rail? Use low/outside off 2 rails? Things like that.

I recently starting taking lessons with the lovely and talented Jenn Barretta. So far, she has been a wonderful coach. Our lessons have been all about shooting the correct shot and playing the correct position. I'm already seeing things different and starting to understand why you take one way over the other. For anyone looking for lessons, I would highly suggest Jenn.

The past few days I've been thinking about how I should go about planning a run out, here are the steps i've thought of.

1. Where would I want to be on the next two balls if I had ball in hand?
2. Use no rails/1 rail/multiple rails?
3. What route makes speed control less important? (can I over/under hit the ball and still have a shot?)
4.Does the english needed for that route make the ball too hard to pocket?

For sure you're on the right track.

As a player becomes more proficient, their "puzzle solving" skills become quicker and more accurate. A pro like Jennifer can glance at most open tables and know very quickly how she will take it on. Planning the table is at the heart of great pool. There are many, many ways to play position. Some players like certain shots and dislike others. As a player's skills improve, they have a lot more options.

In general, for position play, here are what I consider some rules of thumb:

1- Always have a plan. Don't rush to shoot. Once you take that first shot, you're commiting to a pattern.

2. I like to use the smallest angle that will get the job done. This makes the shot easier and the speed less crucial. But the rule of thumb is you want an angle.

3. Positional errors are much more likely due to speed mistakes than directional mistakes. As such, play shape to larger open parts of the table, even if it means taking longer shots.

4. Get comfortable shooting back downtable. Position play becomes a lot easier if you're not always trying to get shape on the pocket closest to an object ball.

5. Keep it simple. For example, shoot downtable or use side pockets instead of trying to get back around balls. Use stop shots if they leave good enough but not ideal positiion.

6. Speaking of side pockets, don't be afraid of going up and down the table off of them. A lot of times that's easier than trying to get on the right side of a side pocket.

7. On open tables, I always try to identify my traveling shots first. For example, if I am on the 1 and have shape to the 2, but the 3 and 4 are on opposite sides of the table from each other, my key angle is 3 to the 4, so I have to play the 1 to the 2 accordingly.

8. On traveling shots, select the most open route that avoids pockets. Often this involves two or 3 rail shape and you should be comfortable playing it.

9. Know the traveling shot routes, 1 rail, 2 rail, 3 rail and straight back draw or follow.

10. The more you think, the more pool table puzzles you solve, and the better and quicker you get at it.


Chris
 
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