Dragon World 14.1 Tournament, is still the World 14.1 Championships

[dr9ball]

Regardless of the WPA, this is the most prestigious 14.1 event of the year. It is clearly recognize by the players as the world championship, and in their eyes, the winner will be the 2011 World Champion.

Until there is an event that can meet WPA sanction regulations, I really can't blame the players. Unofficial or not, it's the best event of it's kind.

You make a good point Nathan.

If the players recognize DP's 14.1 tournament as a World Championship and the fans recognize it as a World Championship even some sponsors recognize it as a World Championship. Maybe, just maybe they aren't the ones who have it wrong.

At least in a "free society" there's no law saying everyone has to agree on this.

 

[maxeberle]

Once again, this was and is the only World 14.1 Championships.

Thorsten Hohmann is once again the World 14.1 Champion and Mike Davis the World Champion Runner-up. Alex Pagulayan and Charlie Williams tie for 3rd. History will long remember that.

To all the good pool players, fans, and well meaning aficionados out there reading and joining in on this post, there are people on here trying to detract from this fact with their own political/financial reasons and alliances happening behind the scenes, which I know much about but don't care to get into. That is life sometimes right? Here in the pool world that reflects the world at large.

It's just that the truth needed to be stated and I was willing to do it. Thanks for all who see that and show their support.

Thank you also to Best Billiards LV, and the local vegas guys who helped sponsor me into the event. Thanks to Dr. Micheal Fedak and all the sponsors for making the event possible and for Charlie Williams and Cindy Lee for making it happen. Also thanks to JR Calvert and Alvin Nelson for doing a great job with the streaming production.

Thank you Mike Howerton, for posting my letter in the azbilliards headlines. That was really cool.

To all, all my best,

Max Eberle

 

[JCIN]

Once again, this was and is the only World 14.1 Championships.

Thorsten Hohmann is once again the World 14.1 Champion and Mike Davis the World Champion Runner-up. Alex Pagulayan and Charlie Williams tie for 3rd. History will long remember that.

To all the good pool players, fans, and well meaning aficionados out there reading and joining in on this post, there are people on here trying to detract from this fact with their own political/financial reasons and alliances happening behind the scenes, which I know much about but don't care to get into. That is life sometimes right? Here in the pool world that reflects the world at large.

It's just that the truth needed to be stated and I was willing to do it. Thanks for all who see that and show their support.

Thank you also to Best Billiards LV, and the local vegas guys who helped sponsor me into the event. Thanks to Dr. Micheal Fedak and all the sponsors for making the event possible and for Charlie Williams and Cindy Lee for making it happen. Also thanks to JR Calvert and Alvin Nelson for doing a great job with the streaming production.

Thank you Mike Howerton, for posting my letter in the azbilliards headlines. That was really cool.

To all, all my best

Max Eberle

If someone were to do another 14.1 event this year with more added money would the winner of that event then become the world champion ? Would 2011 have two 14.1 world champions or if Thorsten won would he be the 2011 14.1 World Champion squared ?

See where this is going? Why even bother with sanctioning an event with any organization, WPA or player based? Just put up enough money to get top guys to show and call it whatever you want. Basically what's been done forever. You can't have it both ways though. To be viewed as an organized sport requires organization meaning people can't just do whatever the hell they want with regards to major titles.

To paraphrase one of my favorite movie quotes:

"This isn't Nam Smokey, this is pool. There are rules."

By all accounts DP put on a well liked event with the help of a lot of people. They should be commended for it. Just because I disagree with the promotion doesnt mean I'm not glad to see the event happen. (That sentence just gave an English teacher somewhere a heart attack) Congrats to Thorsten on his win. He's been a champion in my book for a long time.

 

[joelpope]

Dear Pool Players and Fans,

Back in 2006 when Dragon Promotions revived the World 14.1 Championships, the Professional Players and pool fans of the world rejoiced!

The WPA even sanctioned it in the first 5 years that Dragon Promotions held the event, a popular tournament which Charlie Williams and Cindy Lee were cool enough to bring back.

At the end of the day, the year, and the history of pool, these past 5 tournaments (2006-2010) will be regarded by history as the true World 14.1 Championships, now called the World Tournament by Dragon Promotions. The winners will go in the record books, and in the mind and hearts of the fans.

And I believe this event will be regarded as the true World 14.1 Championship this year, 2011, and into the future, that this is undoubtedly the largest International 14.1 event in the World, filled with almost all of the best 14.1 players from around the world every year, and that almost every pro player considers it a true World Championship. Period.

At the end of the day all that matters is that the players and the fans consider this the real World 14.1 Championships.

I urge the WPA to stop trying to make a power move with this event without even then offering to replace it with what they would consider a real world event. This move is unpopular with all of the fans and the players.

I believe and hope that the BCA will do the right thing and continue to accurately list in their record books the winner of this event as the true World Champion.

After all, the World 14.1 Championships has a long colored history of such disputes, (some of Willie Mosconi's World Titles were won in a 2 man challenge match) and at the end of the day, the printers of the record books will do the correct thing, and list this years event as the true World 14.1 Championship along with the true World Champions.

So WPA, please put the politics aside as you would only be doing the right thing for this historic branch of pool by continuing to sanction this event which now by consensus reality (Pro Players, Fans, & All Other Players), is still, the one and only true World 14.1 Championship, this very Dragon Promotions World 14.1Tournament.

The WPA's explanation is to vague and insufficient to deprive all pool lovers and the history of pool, one of its oldest traditions and most coveted titles. This isn't about the WPA. These great champions deserve better and the world deserves better.

While it is nice that the WPA does sanction the 9-Ball and 10-ball World Championships produced by other promoters around the world, this move by the WPA with the World 14.1 Championships is a blunder and a baffling attempt to discredit what has already achieved credible status the World Over.

This tournament (this year and all the past 5 years) is actually one of the most true World 14.1 Championship ever, in that tournament's long history, when you consider the true international field and depth of skill and talent. For that, the pro players, fans, and myself, congratulate Dragon Promotions on a job well done.

Thank you very much,

Max Eberle

maxeberle.com

agree with you Max...

 

[seussman]

Support the sport

I'd be willing to donate a yearly amount of say $50-100 to support the game. i love the game and i know there are hundreds,maybe thousands around the world feel the same.
Someone who is experienced (and accountable) could manage fund raising.Maybe a raffle.
Don't say it can't happen! It has to be tried.
I haven't seen too many suggestions to help support the game.

 

[Williebetmore]

I urge the WPA to stop trying to make a power move with this event without even then offering to replace it with what they would consider a real world event.....The WPA's explanation is to vague and insufficient to deprive all pool lovers and the history of pool, one of its oldest traditions and most coveted titles. This isn't about the WPA. These great champions deserve better and the world deserves better.

For that, the pro players, fans, and myself, congratulate Dragon Promotions on a job well done.

Thank you very much,

Max Eberle

ME,
You couldn't be more correct. If a so-called "World" organization such as the WPA isn't going to hold a quality 14.1 event that is in some way more inclusive and representative than the DP event (that had a VERY strong international field); then SCREW THEM!!!

The DP event is the best 14.1 event in the world, anyone thinking it is not the world championship of this discipline is wrong, it is the ONLY contender for the title. Had DP given in to the blackmailing WPA and sent them their ransom.....errrrr.....sanctioning fee, then they WOULD have called it a world championship...you just have to pay those greedy b#$t@#$s before they will call it that.

Why does the WPA get to decide on whether its called a "world championship"? Answer: because they made a rule that they have to get paid. Self-serving at the expense of the sport they purport to be promoting.

 

[JCIN]

Why does the WPA get to decide on whether its called a "world championship"?

Pretty sure Jerry covered this in detail earlier in the thread.

Call it a World Championship all you want. Doesn't change that it was a 14.1 tourney in Jersey that Big Tony could of played in. Why the hell does it have to be something it most clearly is not? Whats wrong with it being what it is? A good 14.1 event with a strong field won by one of the classiest guys in the game.

Do you really want a world championship that a D player can walk in and play ? If so thats cool just don't be surprised when anyone looking on from the outside thinks its ridiculous.

 

[Neil]

..................

 

[pt109]

I don't care what this tournament is called.
I loved it....and I loved the format.
..it was nice to see that Ray Martin can still beat a world champion.
..and Mike Sigel can still run hundreds....and hasn't forgot the words..:smile:

The match with Alex and Thorsten was world class in any era.......
...if you don't count the safety play after the initial break......
..Alex got to 172 in three visits.
..and Thorsten got to two hundred in three visits also.
Those are great 'balls per inning' averages on pockets less than 4.5...
...and hurricane Irene made he tables a bit wet.

congratulations to Mike Davis for being a finalist.... and to Thorsten Homan
for being a great champion.

I enjoyed this one as much as the Pearl/SVB match

 

[JCIN]

So, do you think that the title of U.S. Open winner doesn't count for much because D players play in that too? To me, it really doesn't matter if the "public" can get in, just that there is a good amount of top players represented.

The title of the U.S. Open pretty much says it all to me. It is what it is...an OPEN tournament. World Championships involve federations and qualifiers not text messages that say "Hey I have a spot, you want to play be here by XYZ p.m."

I'm really not that wrapped around the axle about it because DP has been doing it for so long its basically funny to me. The thing that intrigues me is the willingness to call something one thing when it by all measurable and documentable facts is simply not that thing. It's like a little kid sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "LALALALALALALALALA"

 

[JCIN]

I don't care what this tournament is called.
I loved it....and I loved the format.
..it was nice to see that Ray Martin can still beat a world champion.
..and Mike Sigel can still run hundreds....and hasn't forgot the words..:smile:

The match with Alex and Thorsten was world class in any era.......
...if you don't count the safety play after the initial break......
..Alex got to 172 in three visits.
..and Thorsten got to two hundred in three visits also.
Those are great 'balls per inning' averages on pockets less than 4.5...
...and hurricane Irene made he tables a bit wet.

congratulations to Mike Davis for being a finalist.... and to Thorsten Homan
for being a great champion.

I enjoyed this one as much as the Pearl/SVB match

See thats what I'm talking about. Why put a name on it ? Talk about what matters...the players and performances.

Good post.

 

[beetle]

Might be time for a poll.

What mystifies me is why a few people are getting so bent out of shape because it is called a World Championship, particularly considering there are no other international 14.1 events and everyone can see that this had a world class field.

What further mystifies me is that D players are trying to tell the professionals how they should feel about themselves after this tournament, lest they get too thrilled.

 

[The Renfro]

The title of the U.S. Open pretty much says it all to me. It is what it is...an OPEN tournament. World Championships involve federations and qualifiers not text messages that say "Hey I have a spot, you want to play be here by XYZ p.m."

I'm really not that wrapped around the axle about it because DP has been doing it for so long its basically funny to me. The thing that intrigues me is the willingness to call something one thing when it by all measurable and documentable facts is simply not that thing. It's like a little kid sticking his fingers in his ears and saying "LALALALALALALALALA"

JCIN I agree completely.... for the WPA to call their tourneys world championships when they are not round robin format is exactly like that... Props for pointing that out :thumbup:

 

[houmatroy]

If they want to call it a world chamionship so be it !

The prize money is/was good enough to draw alot/most of the best players in the world...just like the U S open always got some weaker players that have no chance of cashing & only play for the experience...it still don't take away from the fact that the cream will always rise to the top...For all the people asking why call it a world chamionship...you can flip it just as easy & ask why not...In the big picture it is great for pool...JMO.

 

[dr9ball]

The title of the U.S. Open pretty much says it all to me. It is what it is...an OPEN tournament. World Championships involve federations and qualifiers not text messages that say "Hey I have a spot, you want to play be here by XYZ p.m."

What if there was a World Open Championship Tournament? Would that be ok with you and the powers that be. Clearly then it would be an OPEN tournament, open to anyone in the world and thus perhaps a World Championship devoid of politics and federations etc. After all anyone in the world could play in it.

Politics ruin countries and can ruin pool too (that's my opinion) and the way this tournament has been lambasted by the powers that be makes it hard to support the WPA or other detractors especially when they have no plans of hosting their own 14.1 World Championships. As I said before, if the players consider it a World Championship, the fans consider it a World championship and some sponsors consider it a World Championship, then maybe all the federations and politicians have it wrong. Just my opinion again and obviously it means nothing but I doubt that I'm alone.

 

[JCIN]

So, do you think that the title of U.S. Open winner doesn't count for much because D players play in that too? To me, it really doesn't matter if the "public" can get in, just that there is a good amount of top players represented.

No I do not think that. I think the U.S. Open is an open tournament and a World Championship is not an open tournament. They are different animals. If the U.S. Open did not allow D players to play then it would not be an open tournament. It would be something else.

Do you think any tournament with a solid field is a World Championship? Because if thats the case there is one coming up next weekend.....and the weekend after that.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[yobagua]

I think that the criticism here goes in the wrong direction. Some blame the players. Others blame DP and Charlie Williams. But the biggest question is why is the WPA so weak that it cant control what event is a legitimate one when it comes to World titles?
If the WPA had full fan and player support then any promoter who wanted to do a World Championship would be questioned? Unfortunately many of us, ok Ill speak for myself, dont know what the WPA does. What the structure is and what is the make up of the group.
Is it my fault? Partly. But if the NFL or NBA makes a decision I know it carries weight. The WPA has got to be more productive as well as the BCA to inform the public and also to regulate the game fairly.
When I was a kid and came to the big city I always saw diners advertise "best food in town". I thought well how could that be? Whose got the "best" food? Do people see that as false advertising?
I realized its one of the basic tenets of capitalism. Capture the heart of the consumer.
Charlie Williams/DP built it and people came. Its up to a governing body that people trust and believe in to accept it or not. Dont blame him or the players that participate in it.

Keone

 

[JCIN]

What if there was a World Open Championship Tournament? Would that be ok with you and the powers that be. Clearly then it would be an OPEN tournament, open to anyone in the world and thus perhaps a World Championship devoid of politics and federations etc. After all anyone in the world could play in it.

Politics ruin countries and can ruin pool too (that's my opinion) and the way this tournament has been lambasted by the powers that be makes it hard to support the WPA or other detractors especially when they have no plans of hosting their own 14.1 World Championships. As I said before, if the players consider it a World Championship, the fans consider it a World championship and some sponsors consider it a World Championship, then maybe all the federations and politicians have it wrong. Just my opinion again and obviously it means nothing but I doubt that I'm alone.

My point is that you can't have it both ways. You either have world wide organization and sanctioning or you don't. Why would anyone ever add $75,000 to a 14.1 event if you could have a World Championship for less? Why would anyone try to qualify through tough fields if they could just go sign up? What is the point of keeping track of points if the top players do not get merit based invites to special tournaments?

Somehow it seems like people are getting it twisted that because I and others disagree with calling it a world championship means we don't want the event to happen and speaking for myself that is not the case at all. I think it makes pool look bad that if anyone ever asks me to show them in the record books who is a World Champion I have to go into the whole "Well it wasn't actually sanctioned by the recognized world bodies and federations but it was the only tournament anyone had that year so we all just say it was the World Championships even though you won't find it any record books"

You want to make the case that the WPA should adjust it's sanctioning policies for 14.1....I can get behind that. I just think it makes more sense to try and work for change within the system we have than to tear everything down have everyone go their own way.

I am not a fan of politics and understand just doing things as you see fit. But I do respect the efforts of all the people who have put in the work, time and money to build towards a world organization and because of that you won't ever see a World Action Champion from TAR or anything of the like. Maybe in the end it's all semantics but to me it does mean something. I respect others who disagree with that point of view and have no problem agreeing to disagree.

 

[JCIN]

I think that the criticism here goes in the wrong direction. Some blame the players. Others blame DP and Charlie Williams. But the biggest question is why is the WPA so weak that it cant control what event is a legitimate one when it comes to World titles?
If the WPA had full fan and player support then any promoter who wanted to do a World Championship would be questioned? Unfortunately many of us, ok Ill speak for myself, dont know what the WPA does. What the structure is and what is the make up of the group.
Is it my fault? Partly. But if the NFL or NBA makes a decision I know it carries weight. The WPA has got to be more productive as well as the BCA to inform the public and also to regulate the game fairly.
When I was a kid and came to the big city I always saw diners advertise "best food in town". I thought well how could that be? Whose got the "best" food? Do people see that as false advertising?
I realized its one of the basic tenets of capitalism. Capture the heart of the consumer.
Charlie Williams/DP built it and people came. Its up to a governing body that people trust and believe in to accept it or not. Dont blame him or the players that participate in it.

Keone

What was the WPA supposed to do ? They have a sanctioning process in place for world championships. DP chose not to meet the qualifications for sanctioning. As is their right. They can call the event whatever they want as far as I know. The WPA can and did say they don't recognize it as a World Championship. End of the day if you don't care about what the WPA says and don't care that individual promoters use the world champion title without sanction then it's all much ado about nothing. If you do care about having some sanctioning and organization then it does make a difference.

Also when this event was first released it was said to be a "half BCA points event" whatever that it is. The BCA came out and made it clear there would be no points awarded for this event. Just call it what it is.