Dragon World 14.1 Tournament, is still the World 14.1 Championships

[JAM]

Maybe CW and Dragon would be better served to follow the bodybuilding championship model and use different descriptive adjectives for their tournament. Just eliminate the word "world," I guess.

Universal 14.1 Open Championship
Global Straight Pool Championship
International 14.1 Invitational Championship
Olympic Straight Pool Championship

I do wonder which title Arnie values most!

 

[JCIN]

So true. There are very few purely invitational major events in the whole pool world... including the most prestigious US Open 9-Ball. ...and because of the storm some guys could not make it so why now give a few straight pool lovers a thrill and keep the field full and the prize money up.

In the end I'm right... people will look to this event to find the 14.1 World Champion and finishers for this year.

There really was never a debate. Some folks just did not want to see that happen, and their friends and fans supported them... but now won't be able to do anything about it, and probably realize that's ok. And that is good for everyone.

Justin that is a big "if" on your hypothetical 14.1 event...(no one in the world was doing anything big with 14.1, it was in fact dying) Charlie and Cindy did a smart thing and now get some flack from people who do not like that... Now 14.1 is stronger since DP revived it btw...

The players still support DP and this event, and now that it is over, this argument is becoming moot because I feel even those who have been trying to deny it, know and feel in their heart of hearts that, yeah ok, this was the real deal... let's see what the future holds. Make it brighter. Work together, or at least not try to bring each other down for crying out loud!

Ok time to move on...

See you guys around, enjoy your day.

Max Eberle

Still waiting for you to answer those questions Max. There is no great conspiracy against 14.1 or DP. Believe me it doesn't matter that much. It's simply the continued false advertising that puts me on tilt.

How many "half BCA points" did you get for playing in the tournament?

I realize you are going to support anyone who puts on an event for you to play in. If thats all that matters to you then fine. If you want the sport to ever actually be something more than it is now on a world level then this type of debate is going to happen. Just because someone has a different view than you doesnt mean they are out to tear something down.

I do agree with you on one thing though. In a few weeks people will forget about it.

 

[Taco]

Seems to me the talk recently was about how no American has won this tournament in years. And they still haven't, given Thorsten's win. So why is it getting such a bad rap for not being a World Championship when Americans don't ever win it?

It's semantics. How many Americans are in the US Open (tennis or golf)? Should Americans be disqualified to compete in the British Open because it's called the BRITISH Open? And we should change the name of the World Series to the American-Canadian Series since it excludes, for instance, Japan and the Dominican Republic (and we all know Dominicans can't play baseball at all).

Much ado, meet nothing.

 

[td873]

The WPA is the world body for pool. They have the authority to put out the criteria for calling an event as a 'world championship'. Either you accept that or you don't.

I don't accept it. On this point, please point me to any rule, law or other statement that says the WPA can stop another promoter from naming their own World Champion. In my humble opinion, the WPA can sanction their own champion, not preclude others from naming their own.

You are mistaken to compare the two organizations in the context of conducting 'world championship'. With your reasoning, there can be countless world championships, all to the detriment f the sport.

Actually, I am not mistaken. This situation already exists - and is the topic of this entire thread.

If my point was too subtle, I will state it more plainly:

There CAN be countless world champions. ANYONE can have a tournament and name a World Champion. But that doesn't make them credible a credible champion.

It is the governing body that gives credence to the title of World Champion - so having a world/unified organization is preferred. However, a world organization should not simply discount others and summarily dismiss attempts at legitimacy of their titles as that undermines genuine efforts of others to promote pool. Moreover, because it is possible for other groups to have their own world tournament, and because other groups have large turn-out and support, it would benefit pool to have more complete cooperation between these groups.
​

And to put an even more critical eye on this, if the WPA does not sanction an event, isn't it true that they effectively - and sometimes explicitly - bar their players from attending? Thus, instead of granting exceptions to the other organization or working to give their tournament some legitimacy, they refrain from doing so to keep the other tournament from competing. Whether intentionally or passively, the effect is the same: less positive publicity for pool. And in instances like this, there can be negative publicity.

You suggest the people in power sit down and work together to make things better, instead of trying to determine who is better.

What do you think the WPA is trying to do? They are a world wide organization that will be presenting something close to 3 million in prize fund the next year.

Although you claim they are doing their job, IMO, they are not succeeding against an objective backdrop. Indeed, isn't this just the most recent attempt to force compliance rather than assist in building up a tournament put on by others? There are MANY other great tournaments that NEED worldwide/WPA support or would benefit from it. As a point of reference, what about the DCC and the WPA? It's one of the biggest multi-discipline tournaments in the world...

Further, if the WPA is the world body for pool, which as you indicated means only the WPA can name a world champion, shouldn't they do so every year? And, if they cannot garner support or field an event on their own, why would they prevent a champion from being named altogether? And more importantly, why wouldn't they assist when someone puts such a tournament together?

For example, where are the following WPA world champions:

• 2009 Men's 8-ball World Champion
  
• 2008 Men's 9-ball World Champion
• 2009 Men's 9-ball World Champion
  
• 2009 Men's Straight Pool World Champion
• 2011 Men's Straight Pool World Champion
  
• Numerous women's world titles?

Through all its positive efforts the WPA is indeed promoting pool. But in some of its attempts to govern (e.g., by withholding support for events when the WPA is not even holding a similar event), they are also preventing others from building upon the foundation that already exists. This is where efforts to promote pool should be focused.

-td [again, my $0.02, but you get what you paid for ]

 

[JB Cases]

The WPA doesn't bar players from attending other non-sanctioned events.

Yes anyone can hold a tournament and call it whatever they want. In fact I'd like to use this opportunity to announce that I am holding the One Pocket World Championship next week at my facility in Xiamen China. It's completely OPEN for all players to attend. Please email me for details. The winner will get the title of One Pocket World Champion. I might stream it if I can get enough bandwidth. I already have an HD webcam.

So let's put all this behind us and focus on my upcoming One Pocket World Championships. Not WPA sanctioned because who needs that. I am sure that the good folks at One Pocket.org will be happy to list it since there is no other tournament calling themselves the One Pocket World Championships. I have been practicing a lot and I hope it's not presumptuous of me to say that I think I have a good shot of winning it.

If so then I will be so happy. I plan to present the winner with a custom leather bracelet that says One Pocket World Champion.

 

[dr9ball]

The WPA doesn't bar players from attending other non-sanctioned events.

Yes anyone can hold a tournament and call it whatever they want. In fact I'd like to use this opportunity to announce that I am holding the One Pocket World Championship next week at my facility in Xiamen China. It's completely OPEN for all players to attend. Please email me for details. The winner will get the title of One Pocket World Champion. I might stream it if I can get enough bandwidth. I already have an HD webcam.

So let's put all this behind us and focus on my upcoming One Pocket World Championships. Not WPA sanctioned because who needs that. I am sure that the good folks at One Pocket.org will be happy to list it since there is no other tournament calling themselves the One Pocket World Championships. I have been practicing a lot and I hope it's not presumptuous of me to say that I think I have a good shot of winning it.

If so then I will be so happy. I plan to present the winner with a custom leather bracelet that says One Pocket World Champion.

I might just be able to attend John if you send me a round trip First Class Airline ticket from DC to China. I'll need a very large car to pick me up at the airport and transport me to your place and back to the airport as well as food and lodging and a translator

 

[ibuycues]

Be Careful...........

The WPA doesn't bar players from attending other non-sanctioned events.

Yes anyone can hold a tournament and call it whatever they want. In fact I'd like to use this opportunity to announce that I am holding the One Pocket World Championship next week at my facility in Xiamen China. It's completely OPEN for all players to attend. Please email me for details. The winner will get the title of One Pocket World Champion. I might stream it if I can get enough bandwidth. I already have an HD webcam.

So let's put all this behind us and focus on my upcoming One Pocket World Championships. Not WPA sanctioned because who needs that. I am sure that the good folks at One Pocket.org will be happy to list it since there is no other tournament calling themselves the One Pocket World Championships. I have been practicing a lot and I hope it's not presumptuous of me to say that I think I have a good shot of winning it.

If so then I will be so happy. I plan to present the winner with a custom leather bracelet that says One Pocket World Champion.

.............Careful there! I been practicin`............

Will Prout

 

[sjm]

Generally well-judged, Max, but perhaps a bit overstated. Yes, the field was deep and talented, and yes, this is the best straight pool event of the year. Charlie Williams has turned it into somethijng special. Still, the absence of six proven superstars of European straight pool leads me to conclude that this field did not produce a truly full contingent of contenders.

Darren Appleton
Two time Derby City Straight Pool Challenge champion who ran 186 this year on the tight Diamond table in use in a year in which neither Schmidt nor Archer managed 75.

Niels Feijen
Former champion of the Dragon Straight Pool event and a past European Straight Pool Champion.

Nick VanDenBerg
Former semifinalist in the Dragon Straight Pool event and long-time star of European straight pool

Huidji See
A second place and three top 5 finishes in the five previous Dragon Straight Pool Events.

Jasmin Ouschan
A former semifinalist and two top 5 finishes in the five previous Dragon Straight Pool events. Europe's greatestever female straight pooler by a mile.

Ralf Souquet
The champion of the 200 US Open 14.1 event.

Two other 2011 absentees come to mind as capable of winning the event: European Straight Pool Chapion Dmitri Jungo and American Danny Harriman.

The absence of so many legitimate contenders for the title leads me to conclude that this field is not comparable with the fields of yesteryear when 14.1 World Championships attracted virtually every player capable of winning.

Great event? For sure. Great field? For sure. One of the year's best events? For sure. ....but the fields are not quite comparable with the fields of yesteryear ... then again, Hohmann's dominating performace left little doubt as to who the best straight pool player in the world is right now.

Your friend, Stu.

 

[Sandman]

I agree!

Dear Pool Players and Fans,

Back in 2006 when Dragon Promotions revived the World 14.1 Championships, the Professional Players and pool fans of the world rejoiced!

The WPA even sanctioned it in the first 5 years that Dragon Promotions held the event, a popular tournament which Charlie Williams and Cindy Lee were cool enough to bring back.

At the end of the day, the year, and the history of pool, these past 5 tournaments (2006-2010) will be regarded by history as the true World 14.1 Championships, now called the World Tournament by Dragon Promotions. The winners will go in the record books, and in the mind and hearts of the fans.

And I believe this event will be regarded as the true World 14.1 Championship this year, 2011, and into the future, that this is undoubtedly the largest International 14.1 event in the World, filled with almost all of the best 14.1 players from around the world every year, and that almost every pro player considers it a true World Championship. Period.

At the end of the day all that matters is that the players and the fans consider this the real World 14.1 Championships.

I urge the WPA to stop trying to make a power move with this event without even then offering to replace it with what they would consider a real world event. This move is unpopular with all of the fans and the players.

I believe and hope that the BCA will do the right thing and continue to accurately list in their record books the winner of this event as the true World Champion.

After all, the World 14.1 Championships has a long colored history of such disputes, (some of Willie Mosconi's World Titles were won in a 2 man challenge match) and at the end of the day, the printers of the record books will do the correct thing, and list this years event as the true World 14.1 Championship along with the true World Champions.

So WPA, please put the politics aside as you would only be doing the right thing for this historic branch of pool by continuing to sanction this event which now by consensus reality (Pro Players, Fans, & All Other Players), is still, the one and only true World 14.1 Championship, this very Dragon Promotions World 14.1Tournament.

The WPA's explanation is to vague and insufficient to deprive all pool lovers and the history of pool, one of its oldest traditions and most coveted titles. This isn't about the WPA. These great champions deserve better and the world deserves better.

While it is nice that the WPA does sanction the 9-Ball and 10-ball World Championships produced by other promoters around the world, this move by the WPA with the World 14.1 Championships is a blunder and a baffling attempt to discredit what has already achieved credible status the World Over.

This tournament (this year and all the past 5 years) is actually one of the most true World 14.1 Championship ever, in that tournament's long history, when you consider the true international field and depth of skill and talent. For that, the pro players, fans, and myself, congratulate Dragon Promotions on a job well done.

Thank you very much,

Max Eberle

maxeberle.com

The World 14.1 Tournament by Dragon Promotions is indeed a great event and has the world's best players flying in from all over the globe to compete. This must be recognized and accepted by all governing administrations in the billiards industry. The players approve and the fans approve. Nothing more is needed. There has been way too much politics and greed for control ruining the state of pool and billiards in the United States for way too long. Enough is enough already. Billiards is real strong, and even supported by governments and educational institutions all over Asia, Europe and in the Arab nations as well. Why can't we just do the same here in the US? If all the organizations had done what was right for the betterment of the SPORT itself instead of what was in their own best interests, we'd be in a positive light today, supported by not only fans but the professional industry as well, would be in the Olympics, would have huge sponsors, televised programming on a regular basis or even our own channel nation wide perhaps, and would be able to survive as a local recreational passtime at the least of its own entity without the need of alcohol or food to support the establishments that are closing down left and right all over the country.
The organizations and industry leaders need to SUPPORT all these great events instead of challenging them. We've done enough damage to ourselves as is. Enough already. When will we stop cutting off our own nose to spite our face?!?!?

 

[Sandman]

Well Said

I don't accept it. On this point, please point me to any rule, law or other statement that says the WPA can stop another promoter from naming their own World Champion. In my humble opinion, the WPA can sanction their own champion, not preclude others from naming their own.


Actually, I am not mistaken. This situation already exists - and is the topic of this entire thread.

If my point was too subtle, I will state it more plainly:

There CAN be countless world champions. ANYONE can have a tournament and name a World Champion. But that doesn't make them credible a credible champion.

It is the governing body that gives credence to the title of World Champion - so having a world/unified organization is preferred. However, a world organization should not simply discount others and summarily dismiss attempts at legitimacy of their titles as that undermines genuine efforts of others to promote pool. Moreover, because it is possible for other groups to have their own world tournament, and because other groups have large turn-out and support, it would benefit pool to have more complete cooperation between these groups.
​

And to put an even more critical eye on this, if the WPA does not sanction an event, isn't it true that they effectively - and sometimes explicitly - bar their players from attending? Thus, instead of granting exceptions to the other organization or working to give their tournament some legitimacy, they refrain from doing so to keep the other tournament from competing. Whether intentionally or passively, the effect is the same: less positive publicity for pool. And in instances like this, there can be negative publicity.


Although you claim they are doing their job, IMO, they are not succeeding against an objective backdrop. Indeed, isn't this just the most recent attempt to force compliance rather than assist in building up a tournament put on by others? There are MANY other great tournaments that NEED worldwide/WPA support or would benefit from it. As a point of reference, what about the DCC and the WPA? It's one of the biggest multi-discipline tournaments in the world...

Further, if the WPA is the world body for pool, which as you indicated means only the WPA can name a world champion, shouldn't they do so every year? And, if they cannot garner support or field an event on their own, why would they prevent a champion from being named altogether? And more importantly, why wouldn't they assist when someone puts such a tournament together?

For example, where are the following WPA world champions:

• 2009 Men's 8-ball World Champion
  
• 2008 Men's 9-ball World Champion
• 2009 Men's 9-ball World Champion
  
• 2009 Men's Straight Pool World Champion
• 2011 Men's Straight Pool World Champion
  
• Numerous women's world titles?

Through all its positive efforts the WPA is indeed promoting pool. But in some of its attempts to govern (e.g., by withholding support for events when the WPA is not even holding a similar event), they are also preventing others from building upon the foundation that already exists. This is where efforts to promote pool should be focused.

-td [again, my $0.02, but you get what you paid for ]

Tap tap tap...

 

[Sandman]

What?????!!!!!?!??

I think a larger factor is that the WPA requires $75,000 added money for a sanctioned WC. In the past, DP did meet the previous sanctioning requirements but that was with a lower added-money requirement.

The sanctioning fee is not a major cost to the event.

An event should NOT be based upon the amount of $ involved but rather the respect it gets from the players, the fans and the industry.

 

[JCIN]

An event should NOT be based upon the amount of $ involved but rather the respect it gets from the players, the fans and the industry.

 

[lukemindish]

I wish to god there was a like button for this

 

[Sandman]

True but...

Max,

With all due respect, your post shows a distinct lack of understanding about how World Championships must be conducted. And your insinuation that the WPA and the BCA do not recognize this "World Tournament" because they wish to pull a 'power play' or because it is politically based is nothing more than a lie. So let's talk about World Championships and why this event is not one of them and will not be recognized as one now or in the future.

Prior to the formation of the WPA (and for years afterward) in 1992 there were myriads of "World Championships". The Jansco's held World Championships in a bar and allowed anyone with the entry fee to play. No qualifications required. Every player organization held their own World Championships with no countries other than America represented. One Hall Of Famer has the phrase "Over 80 World Titles" on his business card. 80 World Titles in a playing career of 35 years? Nope. Not possible. What the card should say is "over 80 titles in events that called themselves World Championships".

The governing bodies of pool worldwide saw this as a huge problem because:
a) World Championship titles meant nothing. If there are three World 9-Ball Championships in a year, who is the true World Champion? No way to know.
b) There was no incentive for a legitimate promoter to go to the effort of staging a true World Championship since he could go to a great deal of trouble and expense to have an event that is lost in the cluster of events calling themselves World Championships.
c) This situation was extremely damaging to the game. When fans and sponsors do not have a central focus point the game loses impact.

So the disparate Governing Bodies around the world (the EPBF, the APBU, the BCA, etc) came together to organize the sport on a world-wide basis and bring some order to the chaos. This is still a work in progress (and will be for some time yet) and there are still those whose personal motives are at odds with the goal of raising the game to a truly professional level. But most promoters around the world have agreed to the rules and adhere to them. These rules include:

A MINIMUM ADDED MONEY AMOUNT: You cannot have a 'cheap' World Championship. The goal is to continually raise the amounts required for world titles so that players from all over the world can afford to participate. Frankly, with most World Championships only offering an added money amount of $200,000 we are not there yet. As I said, this is a work in progress, but we cannot have cheap events anymore. The WPA made the mistake of sanctioning the earlier Dragon 14.1 events as World Championships because it was hoped that the events would grow rich enough in time to make them worthy of WC status. But this really backfired. The promoters who were being required to put up $200,000 in added money complained (rightfully) that they had to scourge the earth to find the sponsorship dollars to hold a World Championship while Dragon was allowed to add small monies and have the same title. This was totally unfair to the promoters of those events, their sponsors who must cough up large sums, and to the players who had to endure travel expenses that could not be recovered from the prize fund.

In the near future there will be a true World 14.1 Championship. The WPA is in talks with interested parties now to make this happen. But I am sure you understand that we cannot demand big money from them and also recognize much smaller events from others. The minimum we would now require for a 14.1 Championship is $100,000 with a written plan to bring this over $200,000 in a short period of time.

INVITATIONS: Promoters do not control the invitation process in World Championships. The international federations do the invites from their ranking lists. That way you do not wind up with over 50 players from the USA in a 64-man field, a fact that by itself disqualifies this event as a World Championship. (America has only two players in the top 75 players in the world. To ignore that fact is very, very nearsighted.) Had Charlie wished to call this a National Championship he would have no problems, but he has overstepped the bounds of propriety by attempting to portray this as a World Event. You cannot have 'B' and 'C' players participate in a World Championship just to fill out the field. That can be done in large tournaments, but not in a World Event. Dragon, at one point, actually invited players to come down out of the stands and play to fill out one of their 14.1 fields. That flies in the face of any event worthy of WC status.

OUTSIDE CONTROL OF MANAGEMENT: WPA promoters do not have the final say in how their events are conducted or what rules they will use. This is all prescribed by the WPA and WPA officials are on site to (among other things) over-rule promoters who wish to 'customize' their event in a way that could be deemed detrimental to the sport, such as having near-amateur players and even sponsors participate in the competition.

I am forever bemused and amazed that professional players wish to take steps to cripple and cheapen the game in which they attempt to make a living. The BCA has a rule that no BCA points event may have less than $25,000 added - a rule that was put in place to protect you from promoters who would not do the work to generate the proper amount of added money. The players all agreed to this when it was put in place. But then those same players wanted the Hopkins event in 2010 (maybe this was 2009, not sure) to be a points event even though it only added $20,000. Hopkins understood the facts of life and was fine with it and the following year became a points event again by adding the $25,000. You guys are like a bunch of employees who sometimes ask to be paid less. This is not in your best interest and I fail to understand it. Why you do not declare a minimum for any event for you to participate in is a mystery. As long as you continue to play in cheap events you are preventing the game from ever paying decent prize funds. None of you should ever show up at an event that is less than $25,000 added unless it is a local event in your own backyard where there are no travel costs associated. And, really, even those should be left to the amateurs. Amateur prize funds should not attract professional play.

Max, the governing bodies of pool truly are working hard to make this game bigger but we get zero assistance from the pros in so doing. These governing bodies long ago set minimum standards. It would be in your own best interest if the players would do the same. As long as promoters know that you guys will travel coast to coast for $20,000 added then there is no need for them to pay you properly.

The WPA, despite all of the criticism that it receives, is determined to grow the sport and the purses of the events. In the last ten years the WPA has gone from a total yearly prize payout of $400,000 to one this year of around 2.3 million dollars and, next year, to about 3 million. That is not enough. It needs to be MUCH larger if this game is to ever gain popularity and be a decent vehicle for professionals to earn a living. But you need to stop spitting at those who are serving to generate a better future for you and you need to stop supporting events that do not pay you decently. If you guys want to live in poverty forever you can. But you do not have to. Set standards and then live by them and your fortunes can improve rapidly. Or continue the game on its now 50-year decline and put the blame for it on others as you have in your post. But if you really want to know who is to blame for the state of the game today, go find a mirror.

I can understand the reasoning and wanting to set a standard across the board but due to the current unpopular state of billiards in America today, I believe we must FIRST build the popularity up by supporting eachother in as many events as possible so that we are popping up all over in the public eye BEFORE asking sponsors for more money. NOBODY wants to throw money at an unpopular sport. Build it up FIRST, have SEVERAL events hald by those who love the sport, and THEN you can set standards of dollar amounts. Right now, we don't have the value in the product of which you want to ask more money for. It's like appraising a 2 bedroom apartment at the same value as a 5 bedroom single family home and then listing it on the market for $750,000 because that's what YOU value it at. In that scenario, the apartment will just sit out on the market unsold forever. Build up the product first and THEN you can list it for what it is actually worth to the buying public. The buyer being corporate sponsors in this case. I couldn't charge customers prime rates for low quality equipment. I had to INVEST money, time and efforts into the quality of the tables in my room FIRST and now I can charge those rates and all the serious players and enthusiasts in my area are happy to pay to play on the high quality equipment. Pool is at a low right now and we ALL need to work together to uplift the sport on a whole in any which way to LATER raise the bar of standards. Not cut off our platforms for exposure at the pass. Thank you.

 

[JCIN]

I can understand the reasoning and wanting to set a standard across the board but due to the current unpopular state of billiards in America today, I believe we must FIRST build the popularity up by supporting eachother in as many events as possible so that we are popping up all over in the public eye BEFORE asking sponsors for more money. NOBODY wants to throw money at an unpopular sport. Build it up FIRST, have SEVERAL events hald by those who love the sport, and THEN you can set standards of dollar amounts. Right now, we don't have the value in the product of which you want to ask more money for. It's like appraising a 2 bedroom apartment at the same value as a 5 bedroom single family home and then listing it on the market for $750,000 because that's what YOU value it at. In that scenario, the apartment will just sit out on the market unsold forever. Build up the product first and THEN you can list it for what it is actually worth to the buying pulic.

This is the first post in this thread that makes a logical argument for the wrong side.

I'm kidding.

I understand what you are saying and it makes a lot sense. I agree to a certain extent. I am afraid like a lot of common sense things though its a lot harder to accomplish than we would like for a variety of reasons. But it truly is a goal to work towards.

 

[Sandman]

This is the first post in this thread that makes a logical argument for the wrong side.

I'm kidding.

I understand what you are saying and it makes a lot sense. I agree to a certain extent. I am afraid like a lot of common sense things though its a lot harder to accomplish than we would like for a variety of reasons. But it truly is a goal to work towards.

"Like" button has been clicked. :thumbup:

 

[joelpope]

Seems to me the talk recently was about how no American has won this tournament in years. And they still haven't, given Thorsten's win. So why is it getting such a bad rap for not being a World Championship when Americans don't ever win it?

It's semantics. How many Americans are in the US Open (tennis or golf)? Should Americans be disqualified to compete in the British Open because it's called the BRITISH Open? And we should change the name of the World Series to the American-Canadian Series since it excludes, for instance, Japan and the Dominican Republic (and we all know Dominicans can't play baseball at all).

Much ado, meet nothing.

really funny (good) points...

 

[azhousepro]

But we are not discussing the US Championship. We are discussing the WORLD Championship? By your logic, a World Championship should have lower requirements if it takes place in the US?

Mike

I can understand the reasoning and wanting to set a standard across the board but due to the current unpopular state of billiards in America today, I believe we must FIRST build the popularity up by supporting eachother in as many events as possible so that we are popping up all over in the public eye BEFORE asking sponsors for more money. NOBODY wants to throw money at an unpopular sport. Build it up FIRST, have SEVERAL events hald by those who love the sport, and THEN you can set standards of dollar amounts. Right now, we don't have the value in the product of which you want to ask more money for. It's like appraising a 2 bedroom apartment at the same value as a 5 bedroom single family home and then listing it on the market for $750,000 because that's what YOU value it at. In that scenario, the apartment will just sit out on the market unsold forever. Build up the product first and THEN you can list it for what it is actually worth to the buying public. The buyer being corporate sponsors in this case. I couldn't charge customers prime rates for low quality equipment. I had to INVEST money, time and efforts into the quality of the tables in my room FIRST and now I can charge those rates and all the serious players and enthusiasts in my area are happy to pay to play on the high quality equipment. Pool is at a low right now and we ALL need to work together to uplift the sport on a whole in any which way to LATER raise the bar of standards. Not cut off our platforms for exposure at the pass. Thank you.

 

[azhousepro]

Max, will all due respect...

I love this message for so many different reasons. This whole thread is debating your proclamation that this is a World Championship, no matter what the governing body of pool says.

And instead of actually debating it, you just jump in and say that you are right in the end and lets move on to something else.

Well, by that logic...

In the end the WPA is right...

Time to move on...



Mike

So true. There are very few purely invitational major events in the whole pool world... including the most prestigious US Open 9-Ball. ...and because of the storm some guys could not make it so why now give a few straight pool lovers a thrill and keep the field full and the prize money up.

In the end I'm right... people will look to this event to find the 14.1 World Champion and finishers for this year.

There really was never a debate. Some folks just did not want to see that happen, and their friends and fans supported them... but now won't be able to do anything about it, and probably realize that's ok. And that is good for everyone.

Justin that is a big "if" on your hypothetical 14.1 event...(no one in the world was doing anything big with 14.1, it was in fact dying) Charlie and Cindy did a smart thing and now get some flack from people who do not like that... Now 14.1 is stronger since DP revived it btw...

The players still support DP and this event, and now that it is over, this argument is becoming moot because I feel even those who have been trying to deny it, know and feel in their heart of hearts that, yeah ok, this was the real deal... let's see what the future holds. Make it brighter. Work together, or at least not try to bring each other down for crying out loud!

Ok time to move on...

See you guys around, enjoy your day.

Max Eberle

 

[maxeberle]

With respect to you too Mike, my original post says it all really.

Just because the WPA (who took no leadership in reviving 14.1 except to sanction a great and true world championship) and a few followers (at least some who agree with them for the moment) don't want it to be the world 14.1 Championships, it still is, and history will judge it as so.

It is basically the same event that the WPA did sanction for the last 5 years, barring a few strong players as my friend Stu Mattana pointed out (they lost out by not playing, and actually Niels Feijen tried to get there but the hurricane prevented it) yet filled with many more of the strongest players.

Perhaps it was not the perfect event (who does promote the perfect event), yet I'm sure you and all rational non politically leaning people on here would agree the same about most past world 14.1 events, including ones that barred the great black players (James Evans and Cicero Murphy) from playing etc...

Historians of the future whose judgement is not clouded by their political leanings of the day will indeed see this years DP event as yet another legitimate World 14.1 Championship, and even more so than many past world 14.1 championships.

So all I'm really highlighting is that we may as well all admit and subscribe to the truth today, instead of waiting for a future date.

All my Best,

Max Eberle