TAR Podcast #8 - Shane - Fransisco - Shane Talks About His Aiming Method

Thanks for starting this thread Lenny. I haven't had much time for anything these last couple of days but I was able to watch the TAR Podcast on the way out of the door and this was one of the best interviews that I have ever seen a professional player do.

Shane answered every one of the questions with concise candor. I even like the way that Shane described his aiming system and can't wait to get to the table to try it out. It makes perfect sense what he says he does. You probably just need to learn which angle shots to use which part of the cue. Shane's aiming system requires that you become very familiar with the angles but I like the fact that he aims at something very finite.

Great set of questions for the interview. Just an all-around great interview!

THIS TYPE OF INTERVIEW PROMOTES POOL.

Thanks to TAR for getting it done. Hopefully, there will be more podcasts like this with other players.

If you haven't seen this podcast, you owe it to yourself to invest the time to do so.
 
your even uglier than I thought. Just because you played in a tournament and played a champion, it doesn't mean you are one. What is your point? That you paid an entry fee to get your a$$ handed to you???

No point for someone who is a bumper pool champ, lol.

AND has a "man crush" on Efren.

You'd probably just piss your pants if you hand to play him, lol.

Lou Figueroa
 
Dave,
I'm always puzzled by players who think competing in tourneys with pros, or even defeating them in short races has ANYTHING IN THE WORLD to do with credibility or skill level. Now if the player is staking himself, and playing for something significant that is a whole different deal. Like Grady said in his book (paraphrased), "for 10 years I was playing against the best players in the world on my own dollar, and if there was any spot involved, I was the motherf$#ker giving it." In my view, THAT is credibility.

Now I need to give you some advice; in the Stalev photo, you are shooting the blue ball. HIT THE WHITE ONE FIRST!!!

By the way, is it possible that different shaft diameters could affect this system??? I'm supposing Shane is scared s&$tless to sand his shaft.

I'll look for the Hover-round at DCC; just don't run me down.


Playing champions doesn't mean anything, unless it is in comparison to the keyboard pool champions who can't even get up and do that ;-)

Lou Figueroa
 
Shane's System - All Systems

Doesn't Shane's system reflect the GB aiming? Lets face it if you're going to make that shot then the end result is that your stick has to end up aiming like his does or the GB does or it won't go. It seems to me that we're discussing THE APPROACH to the shots as being different but don't they all need to be aimed the same way prior to shooting (with possible added English, Draw, Follow). THE APPROACH makes the shot easier in a lot of ways but requires a lot of practice that we have used elsewhere over the years. I've tried a lot of systems and eventually know I will use the GB on various shots because I feel confident on those shots that I had hit so many times before.
Back several years we had a member that gave out thoughtful suggestions on how to do different shots and actually wrote out a system of aiming that depended on where the CB and OB lined up on the rail. If you were between the corner pocket and the first diamond you aimed thusly, if you were lined up between the 2nd diamond and the 3rd diamond you had a aiming point, etc..
I thought this was the most helpful system I had seen but of course like Shanes on some shots you need to adjust.
However, some negative dickhead (who is also an intelligent man) caused him so many problems that he left the Forum. This was a big loss to some and he hasn't been replaced yet in my mind. The Dhead was asked to leave the Forum and that pleased me but thats just because his approach rubbed me the wrong way and I probably could have learned a lot from him. Nah!
I realize everyone has reasons for thinking what they do and we will never ever work the problems to just one solution and I don't plan on getting into heated discussions with anyone about the above.
Aim your own way, stay down, and shoot straight. Man, that sounds easy.
 
Dave,
I'm always puzzled by players who think competing in tourneys with pros, or even defeating them in short races has ANYTHING IN THE WORLD to do with credibility or skill level. Now if the player is staking himself, and playing for something significant that is a whole different deal. Like Grady said in his book (paraphrased), "for 10 years I was playing against the best players in the world on my own dollar, and if there was any spot involved, I was the motherf$#ker giving it." In my view, THAT is credibility.

Now I need to give you some advice; in the Stalev photo, you are shooting the blue ball. HIT THE WHITE ONE FIRST!!!

By the way, is it possible that different shaft diameters could affect this system??? I'm supposing Shane is scared s&$tless to sand his shaft.

I'll look for the Hover-round at DCC; just don't run me down.

I wholeheartedly agree. I was just mocking Lou's "I'm the man" post.
 
Chicken Little

I went to the pool room tonight to give Shane's aiming system a workout and was pleasantly surprised.

It seems that it is much easier to use this method of aiming if I used a long bridge. Shorter bridge didn't fare as well.

I think that Shane's system is similar to CTE/Pro One in that he is referencing a particular spot on the object ball. The use of the ferrule edges and center works quite well, even on bank shots. Yeah, I put it to the test on bank shots.

Unlike what Chicken Little insinuates, there is no danger in learning how to aim with this method of aiming or CTE/Pro One or any other aiming system. Learning different aiming systems hasn't hurt my game one bit. In fact, I credit learning CTE/Pro One and Perfect Aim with improving my game. I hope that Shane's AIMING SYSTEM improves my game even more.

Another thing that hasn't been brought up, at least not from what I scanned in this thread, is my theory that an aiming system like Shane's does not use up as much mental energy as a contact point to contact point aiming system or ghost ball aiming where you have to imagine so much. These finite points make it easier to focus on them rather than trying to match up two miniscule points on an object ball and a cue ball. I believe that people like Jesse Bowman may use a similar aiming system by the way that he shoots but I couldn't be positive about that.

Anyway, I strongly encourage anyone to travel down any aiming system rabbit hole you can find. Your game isn't going to suffer and the sky really won't fall down on you unless your name is Chicken Little.
 
Yes, it could have an effect. Just think of the difference it could make if the shaft was extremely wide (ignore the rules for this image) versus extremely thin. The cue would be pointing in different directions in those two cases if you aimed its edge at the outside edge on the OB.

But for most of us, shafts are within a fairly small range of diameters. The player using this approximation method would, in time, learn the adjustments needed for his shaft.

If the shaft has a taper, aiming the line on the side of the shaft will converge with a line through the center at some distance...a problem on long shots.:confused:
 
Well,

i agree with many guys who re playing pool. Personally i enjoy to earn knowledge about the game- no matter what it is.

The easiest for everyone would be to try to just REALLY learn a system and understand it s ideas. I read so much material about aiming-here on AZ or just from books-or written by hand from pool-players-just because i am interested in it. For me the most interesting thing is, how a player makes it work for him. Many have a problem to describe it, but that s also interesting for me. This is even the small path where an instructor is walking on and trys to find a way how he could make the other side understand the stuff he s transferring.

I wrote this so many times-but here again: Every single player uses a system- even if he *thinks* he wouldn t (still funny :p). That s just how the brain works, to make work things for yourself by doing the *try and error game*. You miss, your brain works it out- if it works, then make it over and over again until it is burned in. This works for every single action we re doin.

The most ppl just don t give enough time to understand and the necessary table time. The last 2-3 months i mostly spent time on pivot systems, just because i m interested how it works- and if i could make it work for myself. To be seriously open minded is the key. If you learnt the hard way like i did where no books were available, you HAVE to think about what you re doing. Try and Error with enough table time is a good way to learn. Nowadays is much more comfortable bc you can find so many things via internet. And start Try and Error again....but with a better way to start-because you have a bit more knowledge before and don t have to workout everything on our own.

Neil and another guy wrote a fantastic sentence (fantastic in my opinion)- he/they wrote, that they re using a 2nd (or 3rd or whatever) system to doublecheck it<--- that is very well explained. If you have a plan to doublecheck under pressure it s just great.

I always used a combination of 3-4 systems for aiming-and still do it. After spending more time with the pivot and cte stuff (several ones incl pro1) i finally gave also 90/90 a serious chance. I always really had an understanding problem with 90/90-until Neil and Randy gave me a simple explaining that worked for my understanding. Now i use it as an additional system to doublecheck. Very helpful. I just worked out for MYSELF a number of shots (6 angles, so *just* 6 shots) which i can 100% do with 90/90 system. So i have a clear picture of them. The same shots i know also exactly with the *systems* i usualy use (contact2contact, stickaiming,fractional). So i am also not helpless under pressure if i am not in the zone, where you have a great time just shooting :p.

But with any system you have to give it a real chance to make it work. You have to spend much time-and you need to understand it. Would be great if some guys would be a bit more open minded and would really try themselves some things out with enough table time- instead of bashing everything what is not fast enough to hide.


Be open-minded-and you ll learn a lot. Shane just said it. he worked somethin out THAT IT WORKS FOR HIM. And this with a great amount of practicing, thinking and learning.
Active-learning is the key!

lg
Ingo
 
Not that surprised this interview turned out to be a great one. The Q & a format with questions from fans is perfect for the pod casts! Something to keep doing in the future. As said before, great for the sport!
 
No point for someone who is a bumper pool champ, lol.

AND has a "man crush" on Efren.

You'd probably just piss your pants if you hand to play him, lol.

Lou Figueroa

Im sorry I forgot who Lou Figawhatever is. World Chumpion. you insinuating people pissing thier pants makes me think thats exactly what you did when Efren whopped your a$$.
 
Im sorry I forgot who Lou Figawhatever is. World Chumpion. you insinuating people pissing thier pants makes me think thats exactly what you did when Efren whopped your a$$.


Considering who Efren is and who I am, no, I actually played "surprisingly well."

"The tournament plugs along, and on Saturday Richeson wins his match against Alex Pagulyan, Then beats Glenn 'Piggybank' Rogers 4-0. Reyes plays Lou Figueroa, an amateur from St. Louis who does surprisingly well. Still, the audience knows Figueroa's doomed. When he shoots a particularly good safety, I say, 'Good shot,' and the railbird next to me says dryly, 'Yes, he's granted himself a stay of execution.'"
J.D. Dolan in the June 2001 copy of Details magazine

Here's my personal recollection:
#####

This is from a trip report from, I think, the 2000 US Open 1pocket Tournament, up in Kalamazoo, picking it up on day two of the event.

(insert flashback music):

Saturday morning I headed over to the Playground and just tried to get my mind set before my match with, arguably, the greatest all around pool player of all time. When I got to the tournament room, the line was: you could bet either way, whether I'd get to one. I decided that that's what I'd shoot for: to take one game off Efren Reyes. I'd told AllenB, the night before, that I would really appreciate it if he could snap a photo of me lagging with Efren, to prove to future generations that this match had actually taken place. Alan said no problem, and, a man of his word, was there setup in time with his camera and tripod to capture the moment and has already sent me the photo.

Well, we were put on table two, right in front of the largest section of bleachers and they were packed. Everyone wanted to see Efren play. I was just along for the ride. I put down a good lag, but Efren put the ball within an inch of the rail. I looked at my watch. It was one o'clock.

The first game did not go well, for me. He broke the balls well, and I was under the gun the entire game. When he didn't have a shot, he'd gently spin the cue ball one or two rails and snuggle it up against a ball. I, and the crowd, laughed out loud at the positions he'd put me in. I lost the first game 8-0. It was while I was racking the balls to break (it was a rack your own tournament) that the dawning realization came upon me that it was quite possible that, not only could I lose the match 4-0, I could, conceivably: lose the match against a player of this caliber WITHOUT SCORING A SINGLE BALL. Oh, the humiliation. What do you tell the guys back at the pool hall? What will everyone back on RSB think? That you got a chance to play Efren Reyes and didn't score a single ball!!?? Suddenly, not only did my goal of winning one game seem like the only way to maintain my dignity and salvage the honor of RSB, but it also seemed a goal that was now, on further reflection, very, very far away.

I broke well the second game. Shortly after the break, he left me frozen on the side rail just above my pocket. I looked at the rack for a long time. There was an unfrozen three ball combination that just might go. But the only way to hit it right was to send the cue ball into a fourth ball and then have it carom into the third ball in the combination chain. I'd have to hit it at warp speed to get enough energy on the shot to get the last ball in the combination to the pocket. If it didn't go, I was toast, because the stack was going to explode.

IMO, one of the more beautiful shots in pool is when a cluster of balls is struck hard and the object ball eventually emerges from the stack and slowly begins marching towards it's assigned pocket. Despite shooting with brio, the two ball virtually crawled towards it's destination with total mayhem all around it. As I watched the shot, it seemed as if all the other object balls, and the cue ball, were moving and every single one of them wanted to kiss out the two ball. But somehow it made it safe and sound to its destination. The ball dropped. The crowd burst into applause.

Still, the balls were spread too wide for me to get out. As the game progressed, we got to the point at which I needed two and Efren needed one. And then, something began to become apparent to me, and then to everyone in the stands, and eventually to Efren: Lou was banking well today. Real well. Well, actually, I started banking like god.

Efren kissed into a shot and sold out the last two balls. A modest cut shot with moderately difficult position on the out ball. I missed. All I could hear in the stands were muttered, "Well, he had a chance..." A few innings later, I missed a thin hit to play safe and had to spot a ball. Now I needed three. But then it happened. I banked three and out to take the second game. The monkey was off my back.

Efren took the next game. Twice he tied me up so bad that my only option was to kick three rails and then two rails for an intentional scratch. But I pulled both of them off. The crowd started applauding my shots and the increasingly ridiculous accuracy and consistency of my bank shots.

I took the fourth game 8-0 to tie it up at 2-2. The fifth game we went down to the last three balls, all down table on the side rail just below the side pocket on his side. I needed all three and went for the home run: a carom and combination bank that would send two towards my hole and the third up table to my side. The shot went kaablewwweee, and left Efren straight in. Nonetheless, my banks continued to go, as if on wires.

The last game was another battle, but he was just too strong. I lose 4-2. I looked at my watch, it was 3:30. I had just wrestled with Efren Reyes, in a race to four, for two and a half hours and taken two games off him. I swear I'm not making this up, but during the match Buddy Hall was playing on one side of us, Steve Cook on the other, and during the course of the match I got at least six rounds of applause from the crowd for my bank shots. There was not one round of applause for Hall, Cook, or Reyes. Buddy, in particular, kept looking over wondering what the hell was going on.

As I shook Efren's hand after the match, he said smiling in the high clipped accent he has, "Louis bank good. Miss straight in." That about summed it up.
#####

Lou Figueroa
 
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If the shaft has a taper, aiming the line on the side of the shaft will converge with a line through the center at some distance...a problem on long shots.:confused:

I imagine we should just worry about the straight or fairly straight portion of the shaft near the ferrule, not the whole thing. (Otherwise, with parabolic tapers, we could be doing pirouettes!)
 
I just came back from the pool room where I tried Shane's aiming system, also known as CTE/Pro One. I just ran 6 racks of 9 ball, I swear on my Predator shaft and Scruggs butt. For reference, I was a C player yesterday, with a high run once in my life of 3 racks. Now, after today, I fancy myself a strong B player. Maybe by tomorrow I will be an A player.
 
I don't get the aiming systems. After you hit so many balls....like Shane says....it's just automatic
 
I am not one of those people who gets too involved with the aiming system wars. I know that I have seen an improvement this past year using the method but I need to keep practicing and working on tough shots, its not that I do not know where to hit the ball or how to aim the shot, its more mechanical for me as my mechanics are poor so on certain tough shots I might move a bit and that can make you miss and sometimes you just plain miss. So much goes into making a ball, staying down, following through stroking straight through, stepping into the shot correctly and having proper alignment among other things.

I was shown this by a good pool player whom I consider a mentor so I trusted it and did not buy some video or read some stuff on the net so its a bit different for me, my mind was open to it and I believed in it. It did take me time and more time than it should to get it because I was gambling and playing tournaments, under pressure you revert back to old and comfortable behaviors so your caught in the middle fighting your new knowledge. The method for the most part does become somewhat automatic but if you get lazy you will miss, you just do not get down and bam pull the trigger.

I find I play best and miss less when I take a bit more time as I am a fast player, it helps me as part of my pre-shot routine and something I am working on to say in my mind that this shot is center to the edge or edge of the shaft to the edge of the ball or whatever. I hope for some this is working for you and if it is please share your results, I wish I could explain it better but I am not a teacher or instructor but as Shane figured it out so can you I believe.

I am not saying I play anywhere close to Shane, I am a B player on my way to being an A player within the next year or 2 I believe. I started pool at 25, I am 32 now, 1 year in the bars, 6 in the poolrooms. I wish I could have started earlier as you learn faster I think but I am doing okay for the time I have invested but nothing makes up for natural talent that Shane has, hard work, dedication, practice and starting when he was probably in pre-school. Good luck to those in your pool journey, best to be a bit open minded not just in pool but life too.
 
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