It's The CB

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Step 1- Learn to repeatedly get the cue to go in a straight line

Step 2- Learn to hit the cb exactly where you want to.

Step 3- Learn to pocket balls

Step 4- Learn some speed control

Step 5- Learn english on the cb, how it affects your aim on the shot, and how it reacts off rails.

Step 6- Learn position play to a general area.

Step 7- Learn to pocket balls to a specific part of the pocket. (fine tune your aim)

Step 7- Learn to position cb to a specific area of table. (fine tune your position play)


You will never learn to fine tune your position play until you learn to precisely pocket balls to specific areas of the pocket. Hitting different areas of the pocket can change your position play by several diamonds easily. If you are sloppy on where you hit the ob, you will automatically be sloppy on where the cb ends ups. The two go hand in hand together.

Which is more important? Pocketing balls, obviously. If you miss position, you are still shooting. If you miss pocketing the ball, you are done shooting.

The big separation between A's and shortstops, and shortstops and pros is in how much they have fine tuned the two aspects of shotmaking and position play. And, in how much they have made those aspects a part of their subconscious so they don't have to think so much about it. (edit: speed control is a part of position play, and is the key to the better safes. It's the difference between leaving a jump shot, or a lock up safe)

The advantage will always go to the person that has a system that he has thoroughly learned. When in those situations that you just haven't come across yet, and your subconscious has to guess on what exactly to do, the system player can easily KNOW what to do because he knows what the reactions are, and he can take a second to figure out exactly how to get to where he wants to and not have to guess.
Excellent post Neil. For players who don't have perfect subconscious intuition and feel for position play, there is quite a lot of knowledge and understanding that can help create more confidence and success. Many position-play techniques and principles that are useful to know and understand are described and demonstrated here:
If somebody doesn't know all of this stuff "intuitively" or "by feel" already, it can help to learn and practice with the info.

Regards,
Dave
 
while we are plugging things

Excellent post Neil. For players who don't have perfect subconscious intuition and feel for position play, there is quite a lot of knowledge and understanding that can help create more confidence and success. Many position-play techniques and principles that are useful to know and understand are described and demonstrated here:
If somebody doesn't know all of this stuff "intuitively" or "by feel" already, it can help to learn and practice with the info.

Regards,
Dave



While we are plugging tools to learn position play I highly recommend Joe Villalpando's two DVD's. I have never seen anything better to learn position play although I'll admit there are far more DVD's out now than I will ever see. Three months working with these DVD's had they been out then would have shaved years off my learning curve, no exaggeration at all.

I have noticed that all of Joe V's students have a great stroke but he doesn't teach that on his DVD's. If somebody is very early in their learning curve then I think I'd send them to Joe Tucker's stuff for the stroke and the break and Joe Villalpando's stuff for the more advanced play. With no more information than that I think a player would be well capable of winning regional tournaments. Of course they would have to put in the time to utilize the information on the DVD's first.

Hu

http://pooliq.net/contact.htm
 
Trolls get off on pissing other people off. The more the target gets pissed the more they laugh. That's the real trolls. Forum trolls are just people like Randy and Thaiger who get offended when called on their BS and so they become baby stalkers trying to burn the person who dared to call them out.

Only it often backfires and their own hypocrisy is exposed in short order.

You've never offended me, you daring, brave hero, you.
 
you make a great case Mr. Barton but in my dissertation in my useless soc media class you were one of the antagonists. now that its all done i can ask, is this the role you enjoy?

Why on earth would I care about your schoolwork? If you want to post your dissertation for public examination I will happy to rebut anything I see that is wrong. And will you people stop with the 'you make a fin case' nonsense trying to say I should stick to cases.

Number one this thread is about handling the cue ball and like it or not I have been doing that at a decent level for 25 years.

Number two if you are fair you will see that every post of mine was on topic until thaiger and randy and YOU took it somewhere else. So where did you put yourself in your paper?

You wanted to know what a troll is Phil? Look at yourself in this thread and you find the answer.

Three, where is your contribution to the topic?


www.jbcases.com
 
Are you threatening me with other people?

How odd.

You made the general remark that this forum is for talkers. So that includes other people. Try to keep up with your own comments.

Based on your lack of knowledge thus far I am confident that I would be successful against you in a heads-up match. But if not then I am certain that there are many here who would trounce you easily on a pool table and probably on a snooker table as well.
 
Personal experience? I've been playing this game for 56 years John...but that doesn't mean I stopped learning!

Most great shooters do NOT think about aiming...that's a fact! We practise aiming and other parts of the game so we DON'T have to think about them! If you read the book I mentioned above, you will learn that the mind cannot focus on more than one part of shotmaking, so you practise the other parts so they become unconscious. A professional golfer relies on muscle memory to execute his swing, allowing himself the ability to focus on maybe direction or another small aspect of the shot. Likewise, the professional pool player practises so that most of his game becomes unconscious and he can focus on the one thing that will allow him to continue his inning. Usually what he'll focus on is something that varies from shot to shot (none of the mechanics of your stroke should vary by any large degree) like maybe the speed of the cue ball necessary to obtain line or zone position.

Maybe it's just the way you talk down to people John! Just like your statement above, "I can't help it if you continually present things on this forum that are wrong" or in the previous post where you personally attacked TheThaiger with, "Do you add ANYTHING to the conversation? Why bother with us?" This is an open forum where people express their opinions about the op's topic. Because their opinions differ from yours is NOT a reason to attack them personally! Calm down and express YOUR opinion on the topic...not on the people who are expressing their opinions! You'll get along a lot better here! Have a nice day!

So Randy,

By your own words above you say that the book you read states that the mind cannot focus on more than one aspect of shotmaking (or presumably on more than one part of any task). However Randy, since that book was out there have been significant advances in understand what the brain does using FMRI imaging while testing subjects with a variety of tasks to learn just what they are capable of with a lot of input.

So in fact the brain is much more complex than Bob Fancher posits and more than you know about from ONLY reading his book.

If you never stopped learning then you would test your statements against the latest research in the subject. Google is your friend. Amazon is your friend.

As for talking down to YOU, yes I do. When you call me a slave driver in other threads and try every way possible to denigrate me then I will talk down to you whenever it is neccesary. Like now.

But let's suppose that Bob Fancher and you, through parroting him without attribution, is correct.

As you state a person CAN NOT focus on more than one aspect of the shot at a time.

So by that idea here is how it breaks down as I said previously:

1. Aim.

2. Shoot.

Which means that the player first focuses on how to get down on the ball in the physical position they decide they need to be in to make the ball and send the cue ball to the place they want it to go after contact.

THEN

once they are down on the ball they focus on proper execution to DO what they have decided that they need to do.

Got it?

Aiming is first no matter how you get there. Whether it's a fully conscious act involving a five step system or a fluid motion without conscious thought the first part is aiming. Without proper aim the shot cannot be made and thus cue ball control is meaningless.

Is this concept too hard for you to understand? It has nothing to do with what people can focus on at any given time. By your definition people shouldn't be able to drive and eat/talk on the phone. But guess what that happens millions of times a day without incident. Most people manage to be able to juggle tasks easily giving enough focus to each to get through. So spare us your regurgitated plagiarism of Bob's work. Which by the way you were not honorable enough to credit in your first post. Polite people cite their sources Randy.

If you don't want to be talked down to then stop acting like a child.

P.S. Research also shows that when people DO NOT multitask then then they perform better. And further more there is really no such think as multi-tasking only super fast switching between tasks. source: Google, too lazy to go find the links....

In fact Randy it is as myself and others have been saying. IF you are not sure about your aim then it affects your focus on execution. But IF you are certain of your aim then you can devote 100% focus to execution which results in better and more consistent cue ball control.
 
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You made the general remark that this forum is for talkers. So that includes other people. Try to keep up with your own comments.

Based on your lack of knowledge thus far I am confident that I would be successful against you in a heads-up match. But if not then I am certain that there are many here who would trounce you easily on a pool table and probably on a snooker table as well.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise it was a nattering contest I was being offered. Silly me! There's NO WAY I'd accept that with you, as, judging by your general verbosity, I'd be lucky to get a word in edge-ways. Less is more, John.

ps have you ever seen me play, John? I've seen you play. Keep your money where it is, that's my advice.
 
I know. Because you can't offend a true troll. It is however quaint to note that you didn't start trolling me until I rebutted your inaccurate statements.

No, you waded into an area you knew nothing about (gasp!), armed with nothing but google and an imaginary friend.

A little humility wouldn't go amiss at times, John.
 
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realise it was a nattering contest I was being offered. Silly me! There's NO WAY I'd accept that with you, as, judging by your general verbosity, I'd be lucky to get a word in edge-ways. Less is more, John.

ps have you ever seen me play, John? I've seen you play. Keep your money where it is, that's my advice.

As I said if my game isn't enough then I sure there are plenty here who can easily dispatch you. Right now you are a complete nobody on here. You could be a champion or a chump. But your statements are what I dispute and those are easily defeated.

www.jbcases.com
 
In my humble opinion we have to look on every shot like a whole process, not separating the various factors of it functionally.

The purpose of every shot except the last one on each frame is to pocket the object ball and get the CB in a desired next position (shape).

Besides the analysis of the various elements playing a role in this process we should always remember this overall purpose.

Most of the pros have analyzed and studied the game in detail and have practiced a lot in order to get to top level.

It takes strong will to work patiently and systematically and if done correctly it usually brings results, keeping in mind also that one's life overall conditions won't affect negatively her/his billiard growth.

Tough shots, ususally long ones are tough shots for everyone, including the pros.

The pros are able to apply correctly the necessary elements on those shots more often than others in order to pocket the object ball and get the CB to the desired shape. That shape may not be always the ideal for the next shot by choice, this comes out from balancing the chances of pocketing the object ball which is necessary in order to keep one's turn on the table.

Talent is a factor that cannot be analyzed completely, I'm not sure if Efren Reyes is able to describe some of the impressive shots he makes completely in a way that makes sense to everyone (or anyone) else..

Pros ususally apply fundamentals better and think but do not overthink. Their concentration is higher than the rest of the players and this derives also from hard work of various forms, whichever form feels better indivindually. So if they execute harder shots and get position more frequently, it's because they know these shots better than others.

Pool combines knowledge and feeling, both serving the purpose of performing in a game as good as possible.
Studying simultaneously pocketing and playing position is one of the keys to play complete pool and progress really further.
There is little use in practicing shot making separately from position play.

I'd say that pool knowledge is like theoretical knowledge in music: you have to learn it and use it subconsciously when you play in order to achieve a good performance.

That applies for most people, and exceptions confirm a general rule..
 
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As I said if my game isn't enough then I sure there are plenty here who can easily dispatch you. Right now you are a complete nobody on here. You could be a champion or a chump. But your statements are what I dispute and those are easily defeated.

www.jbcases.com

Why don't you two guys just put each other on your ignore list. Then you won't have to take up nearly so much realestate, especially the pool cases. Isn't this a form of advertising and AGAINST THE RULES?!!!!!!!!! Personally, I get tired of paging down beyond the pool cases.
 
Excellent post Neil. For players who don't have perfect subconscious intuition and feel for position play, there is quite a lot of knowledge and understanding that can help create more confidence and success. Many position-play techniques and principles that are useful to know and understand are described and demonstrated here:
If somebody doesn't know all of this stuff "intuitively" or "by feel" already, it can help to learn and practice with the info.

Regards,
Dave

Can you buy your Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots in one package or is it seperate discs? Which one is best for position play?
 
What an excellent resource page Dave. I only hope those here who need help with aiming and position play click on the link ---> position play resource page
Thank you. This is probably the one topic I have spent the most time on over the years with articles, videos, analyses, and in my book (although, I've also done a lot of work with dealing with squirt, swerve, and throw).

Regards,
Dave
 
Thank you. This is probably the one topic I have spent the most time on over the years with articles, videos, analyses, and in my book (although, I've also done a lot of work with dealing with squirt, swerve, and throw).

Regards,
Dave

I know, I've read most of your articles and also Bob Jewetts. I've even used some of your resources when I taught pool years ago. It is nice to be able to thank you personally! Keep up the good work and again THANK YOU for being such a valuable contributor to AZ!
 
Why don't you two guys just put each other on your ignore list. Then you won't have to take up nearly so much realestate, especially the pool cases. Isn't this a form of advertising and AGAINST THE RULES?!!!!!!!!! Personally, I get tired of paging down beyond the pool cases.

And miss the mirth? Madness.

I hear ya on the case thing, although it's more because of a personal dislike of the design than the principle of allowing someone to advertise their wares. It looks like a dog's vomited on it. I'd feel a right tit getting that out in the poolhall.
 
While we are plugging tools to learn position play I highly recommend Joe Villalpando's two DVD's. I have never seen anything better to learn position play although I'll admit there are far more DVD's out now than I will ever see. Three months working with these DVD's had they been out then would have shaved years off my learning curve, no exaggeration at all.

I have noticed that all of Joe V's students have a great stroke but he doesn't teach that on his DVD's. If somebody is very early in their learning curve then I think I'd send them to Joe Tucker's stuff for the stroke and the break and Joe Villalpando's stuff for the more advanced play. With no more information than that I think a player would be well capable of winning regional tournaments. Of course they would have to put in the time to utilize the information on the DVD's first.

Hu

http://pooliq.net/contact.htm

Joe V's two rail kicking system is INCREDIBLE. (and that's a fact)

The other day I had another fellow that showed me a different two rail kicking system and while it got you in the vicinity, Joe V's kicking system, was FAR BETTER.
 
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