Unsportsmanlike intentional foul just BIH??

billy bones said:
I don't know what the current rules are as I have not played in many years. I am not specifically referring to the APA but as I remember of the leagues and tourneys I played in such a foul was (1) at the discretion of the ref or director as to foul ball in hand in which case the opponent had the choice of leaving the balls in place or returning them to their original position. or (2) loss of game or (3) loss of match or (4) ejection from the feild of play.

Such deliberate unspotsmanship conduct should not be tolerated at all. Left to my discretion I would impose # 3 for 1st offense. # 4 for any further offense as a matter of record in any future matches and disqualification in any future events period. :nono:
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I think you're right. It is the discretion of the ref as to the severity of the penalty...but in practice, from what I've seen, they usually escalate after there are repeated offenses.

I can see in this situation giving ball in hand either for the sportsmanship violation or as a refusal to take a turn, since the shooter deliberately did not strike the cue ball.
 
actually by apa rules it is not a ball in hand nor is it a foul it is considered accidental movement of the balls and they are returned to their original position and the original shooter tries again and is told that no legal shot was taken. He can try again or give his oponent ball in hand but can not leave the balls where he pushed them to.
 
leehayes said:
according to what I know about the rules....the balls would get replaced to the spot closest to where they originally were before being hit.
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This, it is the same thing as bumping a ball with your arm or unintentionally moving a object ball with your cue. The balls go back to their former position to where the opponent feels they were.

That is the least of the rule that should have been called, the tournament director who made the BIH ruling is clueless and people who have that little understanding of the game that are in positions of power to screw up that badly do nothing but harm this sport with their idiocy.
 
I had someone try this on me in one pocket. I had them totally screwed. They walked over to a ball and just moved it with there cue. They called foul. I looked at them and said so that is one foul. They said yes. I walked over and raked every ball on the table flush up against my pocket and left the one they were buried behind. I believe it was 10 or 11 balls. I put a coin up on the table and said you are on one.

It was called wrong by the ref. Balls should have been replaced as near as possible to its original position from the point of view of the incoming player. It is his decision as to where he thought the balls lay.
 
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quadrary said:
actually by apa rules it is not a ball in hand nor is it a foul it is considered accidental movement of the balls and they are returned to their original position and the original shooter tries again and is told that no legal shot was taken. He can try again or give his oponent ball in hand but can not leave the balls where he pushed them to.
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This is correct. There is no option to leave them where they are, they must be put back, in every situation.
 
We had something come up last year, also in Jack and Jill. I was just watching the match. A team was made up of a 7 and a 2. The 2 had the cue ball hooked and didn't have much of a shot at getting a hit. The other teams balls were tied up, also, and he didn't want her to break up their balls. They had already used their timeout. I happened to be standing next to the LO. The 7 came over and asked what would happen if he called another timeout, giving the other team BIH but not breaking up their cluster. The LO said that would be a sportsmanship foul and loss of game. Seems to me thats what should have happened in your case, also.

Andy
 
Mr. Wiggles said:
Along these same lines is purposefully shooting your opponents balls. Done all the time and should be loss of game. I don't care what the rule book says, it's wrong. Un American. Chicken poop.[/QUOTE


Does anyone else share this view?

If you are hooked and know that you are going to give up ball in hand, is it wrong or unsportsmanlike to shoot at your opponents ball to make his out more difficult?

Sort of like in 9 ball when you are about to give up ball in hand and the 9 is a hanger. Shoot the 9 in the hole so it is spotted instead of leaving the easy winner for your opponent.
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You guys are all assuming the movement of the balls was done on accident. Any purposeful movement of balls has to be loss of game. I, for one, dont even care what the rules say. IF it is hard to tell whether he did it on purpose or not, i'd say the moving them back responses are correct.
 
desmocourtney said:
Mr. Wiggles said:
Along these same lines is purposefully shooting your opponents balls. Done all the time and should be loss of game. I don't care what the rule book says, it's wrong. Un American. Chicken poop.[/QUOTE


Does anyone else share this view?

If you are hooked and know that you are going to give up ball in hand, is it wrong or unsportsmanlike to shoot at your opponents ball to make his out more difficult?

Sort of like in 9 ball when you are about to give up ball in hand and the 9 is a hanger. Shoot the 9 in the hole so it is spotted instead of leaving the easy winner for your opponent.
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I agree with YOU here. As long as the player legally strikes the cueball, there is nothing unsportsmanlike about it.
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justadub said:
This is correct. There is no option to leave them where they are, they must be put back, in every situation.
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This part is correct the, balls must be put back into their original positions first.

Now if the balls were moved intentionally then yes it could and should be unsportsmanlike conduct. Depending on the offense it could be a warning, BIH, loss of game or match. In this case as described it should have been BIH with a warning that the next offense (any unsportsmanlike conduct) will be loss of game and or match.
 
He pushes two opponents balls together WITHOUT hitting the cueball first. He just pushes his tip into the six to tie it up against the seven.
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This is one of biggest DB moves I have ever heard of.....How in any sort of frame of mind does anyone arrive at the conclusion this falls within the rules? Much less the spirit of the game?

I mean why not move em all? Just pick em up with your hands even??
Then take your foul and move on I guess?? With your opponent left to sort out the havoc you have built for him on the table??LOL WUT??!!
 
I think your right......

SpotMonster22 said:
Thinking the way APA sportsmanship rules usually go...it would first be ball in hand, with a warning. Next sportsmanship violation would be loss of game, and then the next, forfeit of match. I would also think that balls would need to be reset to their original position.
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Just the same as you bump a ball on a shot your opponent should be able to move the balls back. That way there can be no advantage to the player doing this. Pretty simple. Kind of a no brainer.

Or forfeit.

By moving the balls back this move would do no good.
 
I've seen some low down dirty pool,,but have never seen this happen.

There's a rule if more than one ball is moved,cue involved or not,,,it is BIH to opponent.Balls are moved back,also.

But if only moving 1 ball with-out cue involved. It gets moved back and continue shooting. Dirt Bag(DB) shoots again.

If the DB does it once and you move the ball back,,,and he does it again. LMAO. Hmmmm??? If there's a Ref there,,it would be a forfiet. But if no Ref it would just be silly!!!!

I would just keep replacing the ball in it's original position until many people got a good look at what was going on,,,or until he gets tired of it,,,and moves more than one ball. Or realizes what a ass he is being.

Hope I never see it happen to me,,,things like this can get several people kicked out of a tournament ,if you know what I mean.
 
Intentional movement of balls, unsportsmanlike violation - first offense, BiH. Second offense, loss of game. Third offense is forfeiture of match.

In some cases, they could go directly to loss of game if they rake the table or do something else not easily undone. In this case, BiH and replacement of ball(s) should be enough.

PiF could also be applied after the match by the incoming shooter.
 
SpotMonster22 said:
I think you're right. It is the discretion of the ref as to the severity of the penalty...but in practice, from what I've seen, they usually escalate after there are repeated offenses.

I can see in this situation giving ball in hand either for the sportsmanship violation or as a refusal to take a turn, since the shooter deliberately did not strike the cue ball.
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I'm not going for this.^
If a player moves the balls without striking the cue-ball in a conventional
manner....it must be loss of game.
Second infraction...disqualification.

Anything else is opening Pandora's box.
Where would it stop?
..at putting all the balls in a cluster?
..lifting the table when your opponent is shooting?
..throwing sand on the table?
..threatening your opponent with a gun?

Stop it with the first infraction...so everybody knows.
Otherwise, the toughest guy in the room would win every tournament....
...and Chuck Norris would be world champion.
 
Banks said:
Intentional movement of balls, unsportsmanlike violation - first offense, BiH. Second offense, loss of game. Third offense is forfeiture of match.

In some cases, they could go directly to loss of game if they rake the table or do something else not easily undone. In this case, BiH and replacement of ball(s) should be enough.

PiF could also be applied after the match by the incoming shooter.
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I agree with this,,,but for a forfeit a Ref has to be present? right??

The guy should be banned from all play IMO. And PIF after tournament.lmao

Nobody likes to lose,,,but come on!!! Terrible sportsmanship to say the least.
 
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