Stevie moore true professional!!!!

[Mark Griffin]

Stevie Moore

Murdoch,

The very first match (between Ernesto Dominguez and Stevie Moore) started with the table open. I was asked if we would leave it open. Originally saying yes (remember the match had already started). After a couple minutes of thought, I decided that was not fair to everyone else and we said future matches would be on coin.

The fit thrown by Stevie took place about 30 hours and 8 matches later. As far as I know, it was the only instance of someone having a problem with the decision. It was not like Stevie played immediately after we reviewed the original decision. (please keep the facts and time frames straight).

We don't just make decisions without giving it some thought. The original decision was needed immediately - but upon reflection, it was determined we probably made the wrong decision, and we corrected that problem.

The problem is still about one thing: Stevie Moore throwing a fit and basically calling out everyone involved in the operation of this event.

I won't put up with it and my staff should not have to put up with it! That is what this is all about.

Now, I apologize for not being there to try and resolve the issue. (Stevie might be glad I wasn't there) - but I was in the hospital (for 6 days!). I am sure my staff had other things to do than to calm a 'professional' player down.

(BTW, I am quite sure Stevie is aware of this thread, and if it was me, I would think about contacting either Ric jones or Justin and clearing this up. Since I was not there, he did not insult me to my face, but he did insult my event and my staff and associates).

As others have said, sometimes things just go sideways. Let's learn and move on. But to think that we caused Stevie's meltdown is just not understanding the real issues. I do not want to argue with anyone, but Stevie's actions are the issue!

We do a lot of things in the pool world. And we are going to make some mistakes. And we are going to try and fix those errors and try to avoid them in the future.

And, Mr. Murdoch, I will always sign my name. Sometimes I do put the CEO on it also so others in the thread might understand that I should know what I am talking about. To think that I do that to 'flaunt' my title just means you do not understand me. I do not need people to know who I am, after all, I am comfortable with who I am.

If you want to discuss this further, I encourage you to contact me directly through PM or email (markg@playcsipool.com).

Mark Griffin

No problem with that at all, Nick. I agree completely. Mark should be able to make any rule he wants. However, when, according to Justin, one minute he agrees to open the table and another minute (actually 20 minutes) he gets "religion" and closes the table, that can create a problem.

 

[corvette1340]

Here are my thoughts on all of this. I was out of town on business, but caught up with the threads, admittedly skimming though them, but catching the general plot. I have not talked to Stevie, nor plan to anytime soon, and I probably won't mention this situation to him when I do.

I discussed this with some other guys, who like myself, have been friends with Stevie for quite some time and we all agreed, while not actually being there, it seems that Stevie was in the wrong for his actions and going on tilt.

I've always been from the school of thought that pros like Stevie need pool and the people that promote, market, and give back to pool much more than the pool world and those people/tourneys/etc...need Stevie or any of the other pros. While these and other minor areas need to be discussed and decisions be made beforehand and the pro's certainly need to voice their opinions, they should be doing all they can to be as congenial as possible to the pool world in general. In the end it's them who put food on their table. Kind of the whole "biting the hand that feeds you" thing.

All that said, Stevie is a helluva guy and one of the most honest, classiest, pool players out there. I'm sure something just set him off and he had a moment, just like we all do. Shit, if I had a dollar for everytime I went on tilt and said a little too much I'd be rich.

How many times have you ever seen Stevie get out of line? I bet not many. Earl gets out of line on a daily basis, but gets a pass. Hopefully all that are involved will get in touch with each other and put this to bed.

 

[easy-e]

Here are my thoughts on all of this. I was out of town on business, but caught up with the threads, admittedly skimming though them, but catching the general plot. I have not talked to Stevie, nor plan to anytime soon, and I probably won't mention this situation to him when I do.

I discussed this with some other guys, who like myself, have been friends with Stevie for quite some time and we all agreed, while not actually being there, it seems that Stevie was in the wrong for his actions and going on tilt.

I've always been from the school of thought that pros like Stevie need pool and the people that promote, market, and give back to pool much more than the pool world and those people/tourneys/etc...need Stevie or any of the other pros. While these and other minor areas need to be discussed and decisions be made beforehand and the pro's certainly need to voice their opinions, they should be doing all they can to be as congenial as possible to the pool world in general. In the end it's them who put food on their table. Kind of the whole "biting the hand that feeds you" thing.

All that said, Stevie is a helluva guy and one of the most honest, classiest, pool players out there. I'm sure something just set him off and he had a moment, just like we all do. Shit, if I had a dollar for everytime I went on tilt and said a little too much I'd be rich.

How many times have you ever seen Stevie get out of line? I bet not many. Earl gets out of line on a daily basis, but gets a pass. Hopefully all that are involved will get in touch with each other and put this to bed.

Best post so far.

 

[BasementDweller]

What's Fairness Anyway?

I think I get it now...Stevie crossed the line and ticked some people off. He should probably just apologize and all would be forgotten.

The one thing that I'm still sort of shaking my head at is this idea that all the players have to be treated as equals -- no matter what. So, the streaming table can't be open because that wouldn't be FAIR. Well, the whole concept of fairness went out the window once you put up the cameras and start selecting matches to be streamed. How is it FAIR to only have certain players streamed? It's not, but who cares? The better players deserve the visibility of being streamed because they are....wait for this.....better players. That's how life works.

Say Joe Schmoe decided he wanted to sponsor the streaming table. So, now none of the players would have to pay for their games while playing on it. Would that be FAIR to Joe Banger who has no chance of being streamed? No, but so what? What if a perfect stranger threw you a roll of quarters and said, "Hey, here's some quarters for you to use on your next match." Would you think, "well, that wouldn't be FAIR to the other players that have to pay for their games out of their own pocket so I won't accept the offer." I doubt it.

There are several guys on here that played at the USBTC and they have this sort of view of fairness. It reminds me of the straight "A" student I went to high school with (insert flashback music). We are in Chemistry class and we are reviewing our exams that had just been returned to us by our teacher. During this review, it was discovered that I actually had the wrong answer down on one of the questions but the teacher didn't mark it down (you following me?). So, what's this guy do? He just about brakes his hand waving it around to get the teachers attention so he can point out the discrepancy. Long story short, the teacher comes over and changes my grade. I wasn't very happy. This had zero effect on his grade. Just like a few guys getting to save a few bucks has no effect on those that don't get to save them. But some people will insist that everyone be equally miserable no matter what.

I guess this was just my long winded way of saying what I could have said in one sentence:

Life isn't fair.

I bet you've never heard that one before.

 

[easy-e]

I think I get it now...Stevie crossed the line and ticked some people off. He should probably just apologize and all would be forgotten.

The one thing that I'm still sort of shaking my head at is this idea that all the players have to be treated as equals -- no matter what. So, the streaming table can't be open because that wouldn't be FAIR. Well, the whole concept of fairness went out the window once you put up the cameras and start selecting matches to be streamed. How is it FAIR to only have certain players streamed? It's not, but who cares? The better players deserve the visibility of being streamed because they are....wait for this.....better players. That's how life works.

Say Joe Schmoe decided he wanted to sponsor the streaming table. So, now none of the players would have to pay for their games while playing on it. Would that be FAIR to Joe Banger who has no chance of being streamed? No, but so what? What if a perfect stranger threw you a roll of quarters and said, "Hey, here's some quarters for you to use on your next match." Would you think, "well, that wouldn't be FAIR to the other players that have to pay for their games out of their own pocket so I won't accept the offer." I doubt it.

There are several guys on here that played at the USBTC and they have this sort of view of fairness. It reminds me of the straight "A" student I went to high school with (insert flashback music). We are in Chemistry class and we are reviewing our exams that had just been returned to us by our teacher. During this review, it was discovered that I actually had the wrong answer down on one of the questions but the teacher didn't mark it down (you following me?). So, what's this guy do? He just about brakes his hand waving it around to get the teachers attention so he can point out the discrepancy. Long story short, the teacher comes over and changes my grade. I wasn't very happy. This had zero effect on his grade. Just like a few guys getting to save a few bucks has no effect on those that don't get to save them. But some people will insist that everyone be equally miserable no matter what.

I guess this was just my long winded way of saying what I could have said in one sentence:

Life isn't fair.

I bet you've never heard that one before.

I like your thought process, and you make a good point. I think the same advice could have been given to Stevie during his rant. We all should understand your post: Life Isn't Fair.

 

[master_cueist]

Out of all of these comments and rants about what everybody think went wrong and right and all the hoopla BS. The person who has made the best point so far, as well as the quickest, simplest, most straight foward comment about it all was Shane, who was then immediatly and harshly lashed out at by Stevie, and what he said was "they have to make money too" that right there ladies and gentlemen, no matter whos side your on is the end of the f**king story for me. Because yes, almost everybody in this whole entire thing except Shane and from the sounds of it Justin were in the wrong in one way or another. But the plain and simple fact is they put these tournaments on to give pros like Stevie a career, but how do you think they can keep doing it? You think its free or something? They have to make money also and where a lot of that comes from is the tables. I do NOT think that the streaming table should be open for ANYBODY no matter who they are, Shane didn't care did he? And if we want to start pulling the rank cards I think the general concencous is that more times than not Shane is going to smoke Stevie, stats don't lie. So if Shane doesn't have a problem with it, then why does Stevie just because he happened to play on that table ONE time the whole tournament with it open and now all of a sudden they are out to get him and only him. He should have been happy he had the opportunity to get some free media coverage. If he cares about his image at all, he should be lucky that his rant didn't get streamed or else his reputation would be shot. I agree that he should be making calls to Ric, Mark, Justin, and Shane, and whoever else he belittled and apologizing.

 

[JAM]

Best post so far.

Agreed!

 

[Nick B]

No problem with that at all, Nick. I agree completely. Mark should be able to make any rule he wants. However, when, according to Justin, one minute he agrees to open the table and another minute (actually 20 minutes) he gets "religion" and closes the table, that can create a problem.

I manage a complex business with a lot of people, dollars and distributor partners that has a lot of moving parts. What seems to be a good decision today may not work down the road. I do my best to consistent but sometimes I miss the mark. At that point I am duty bound to adjust and not worry about looking foolish. Mark thought it through and adjusted. Maybe he did it to make bad boys happy. Maybe he did it for consistency. Maybe he just changed his mind. Who cares. We are talking about 10 bucks people. What is showing your a$$ worth.

 

[JAM]

I manage a complex business with a lot of people, dollars and distributor partners that has a lot of moving parts. What seems to be a good decision today may not work down the road. I do my best to consistent but sometimes I miss the mark. At that point I am duty bound to adjust and not worry about looking foolish. Mark thought it through and adjusted. Maybe he did it to make bad boys happy. Maybe he did it for consistency. Maybe he just changed his mind. Who cares. We are talking about 10 bucks people. What is showing your a$$ worth.

You make a good point.

I will say this, based on personal experience attending some of the larger events, though I did not attend this one.

Sometimes the players may experience sleep deprivation, lack of good nutrition, crappy hotel room and/or financial issues when competing in tournaments. There is no doubt in my mind that this can contribute to somebody flying off the handle. Some folks may have a short fuse due to environmental issues; others, like me, may get emotional and cry. :embarrassed2:

My last pool experience in Vegas was 2006, and due to the environmental issues I encountered, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I vowed that would be the last pool tournament I ever went to. It was nobody's fault that promoted the tournament; rather, it was the stress. It just became too much for me personally. Pool tournaments can be damn stressful. I don't care if you're the player, the promoter, or a professional railbird/stakehorse/driver, et cetera, like me. :grin-square:

When we used to return home from the week-long events, it took me almost a week to recover. Pool is not only a rich man's high, IMO, but it's also geared towards younger folk. Who in the heck can shoot pool well at, say, 8 a.m. in the morning, as an example? My bones aren't even moving right yet.

 

[satman]

Nice post Jam...

Those can all be contributing factors. But I always tell people, you never know what someone else is going thru at that particular time. Maybe a phone call, or just found out someone they were betting on was dumping. Maybe even, some nutcase walked into them in a hall and tried to start a fight. Every person's day, doesn't run perfect. If that behavior starts to be consistent from someone, then, maybe they need to get away from pool. I don't know Stevie, but have played him at DCC, and seen him play several matches. Never seen anything like this from him.

You make a good point.

I will say this, based on personal experience attending some of the larger events, though I did not attend this one.

Sometimes the players may experience sleep deprivation, lack of good nutrition, crappy hotel room and/or financial issues when competing in tournaments. There is no doubt in my mind that this can contribute to somebody flying off the handle. Some folks may have a short fuse due to environmental issues; others, like me, may get emotional and cry. :embarrassed2:

My last pool experience in Vegas was 2006, and due to the environmental issues I encountered, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I vowed that would be the last pool tournament I ever went to. It was nobody's fault that promoted the tournament; rather, it was the stress. It just became too much for me personally. Pool tournaments can be damn stressful. I don't care if you're the player, the promoter, or a professional railbird/stakehorse/driver, et cetera, like me. :grin-square:

When we used to return home from the week-long events, it took me almost a week to recover. Pool is not only a rich man's high, IMO, but it's also geared towards younger folk. Who in the heck can shoot pool well at, say, 8 a.m. in the morning, as an example? My bones aren't even moving right yet.

 

[Murdoch7627]

I manage a complex business with a lot of people, dollars and distributor partners that has a lot of moving parts. What seems to be a good decision today may not work down the road. I do my best to consistent but sometimes I miss the mark. At that point I am duty bound to adjust and not worry about looking foolish. Mark thought it through and adjusted. Maybe he did it to make bad boys happy. Maybe he did it for consistency. Maybe he just changed his mind. Who cares. We are talking about 10 bucks people. What is showing your a$$ worth.

Nick,

Sounds like you are a good and successful manager. Just one question please. After you make the "adjustments" do you inform your people and distributor partners about them or do you just sit back and hope those affected will somehow hear about the new adjustments? Just wondering.

 

[JCIN]

Nick,

Sounds like you are a good and successful manager. Just one question please. After you make the "adjustments" do you inform your people and distributor partners about them or do you just sit back and hope those affected will somehow hear about the new adjustments? Just wondering.

I really think you are reaching here. If we are talking about a rule change that effects game play such as "From now on you have to shoot the one ball last or face immediate arrest and detention" then yeah you have a point.

Hell there was as good a chance as any the change about paying coins wouldn't effect either player anyway. Do you go tell everyone involved about changing a minor detail that statistically will not effect them anyway ? I get testy when a road is closed but I don't wig out at the cop standing by the barricade because they didn't call me on my cell phone and tell me about it.

 

[Taco]

If this had been a professional golf tournament, or a professional baseball game, how long would it have taken to throw the guy out after he called his opponent a "dumb fvck" in front of a tournament official and a national TV audience?

Not long, I think.

Stevie might be a great guy who, for whatever reason, suddenly went postal. I have no idea. But you can't let that kind of behavior slide, unless it's in a professional wrestling match.

I think it would have been more effective to have shown him the door at that moment than debate it after the fact on an internet forum. I don't know if there's anything in the by-laws governing abusive behavior, which would give you the right to show him the door and hit him where it hurts - his wallet - but there should be. Of course in most tournaments you'd lose one of your biggest stars - Earl - but that's a small price to pay.

Everybody says pool doesn't get any respect. This is a pretty good example of why.

 

[sfleinen]

If this had been a professional golf tournament, or a professional baseball game, how long would it have taken to throw the guy out after he called his opponent a "dumb fvck" in front of a tournament official and a national TV audience?

Not long, I think.

Stevie might be a great guy who, for whatever reason, suddenly went postal. I have no idea. But you can't let that kind of behavior slide, unless it's in a professional wrestling match.

I think it would have been more effective to have shown him the door at that moment than debate it after the fact on an internet forum. I don't know if there's anything in the by-laws governing abusive behavior, which would give you the right to show him the door and hit him where it hurts - his wallet - but there should be. Of course in most tournaments you'd lose one of your biggest stars - Earl - but that's a small price to pay.

Everybody says pool doesn't get any respect. This is a pretty good example of why.

Actually, that already happened at the Diamond Pro Players 10-ball tournament at last year's Super Billiards Expo, when Earl was shown the door by TD Frank DelPizo for his (Earl's) abusive behavior. So it's not like a precedent hadn't already been set; it certainly had.

-Sean

 

[master_cueist]

I've never been to this tournament, but every single other tournament I have ever been to, has made it very clear that the tournament staff has the right to make adjustments as needed or as they see fit, such as player ranking, matches depending on time limits, and clearly having a table open or closed would easily fall into that category.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I'm also in the camp that hopes Stevie will man up and apologize. He's not had a pattern of bad behavior so I gotta believe he just had a bad moment.

Come on Stevie, we're waiting with

 

[pt109]

I'm also in the camp that hopes Stevie will man up and apologize. He's not had a pattern of bad behavior so I gotta believe he just had a bad moment.

Come on Stevie, we're waiting with

View attachment 215901

That's how I feel....the OP talked about true professional.....

...so far, Justin and Mark Griffin have shown to be professional.

Stevie, state your case.....or will this be an ABP thing?

 

[spanky79]

Actually, that already happened at the Diamond Pro Players 10-ball tournament at last year's Super Billiards Expo, when Earl was shown the door by TD Frank DelPizo for his (Earl's) abusive behavior. So it's not like a precedent hadn't already been set; it certainly had.

-Sean

I wouldn't use Frank as an example of a good tourney director. That may have been teh one time Earl should not have been tossed.

If they would of tossed Stevie there would be many more people *****ing about how unfair it was they deprived him a chance to make money and how Shane is TAR's boy and they did it on purpose.

You can't make everyone one happy.

 

[tigerseye]

The final contestants shouldn't have to pay for time....imo

 

[cookie man]

That's how I feel....the OP talked about true professional.....

...so far, Justin and Mark Griffin have shown to be professional.

Stevie, state your case.....or will this be an ABP thing?

First off the OP came on a public forum to whine about a situation with Stevie, why? It's not necessary for a tournament official to whine on here. They wanted Stevie to handle it privately but they post it on a public forum. Bad decision.
Second no other pro comes on here to explain anything, why on earth would Stevie?