I always wondered if the slip stroke wasn't something they learned playing as youngsters because their arm span was so short they gripped farther up the cue and sort of threw it at the ball?
Slip Stroke
- Thread starter BuddyWing
- Start date
That is a possibility. I think I developed it by trying to have "touch" in my stroke and probably and simply held the cue too loose.
QUOTE=book collector;2535952]I always wondered if the slip stroke wasn't something they learned playing as youngsters because their arm span was so short they gripped farther up the cue and sort of threw it at the ball?[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=book collector;2535952]I always wondered if the slip stroke wasn't something they learned playing as youngsters because their arm span was so short they gripped farther up the cue and sort of threw it at the ball?[/QUOTE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJHmXPG_YQ
I found this example of Stroke Slip use and wanted to share it with you guys.
I use it 90% of the time but I actually have not seen many pros use it. (from what I have seen in youtube videos) Anyone know any pros who use it consistently?
I found this example of Stroke Slip use and wanted to share it with you guys.
I use it 90% of the time but I actually have not seen many pros use it. (from what I have seen in youtube videos) Anyone know any pros who use it consistently?
whole lot of info//thanks
In all my years of playing pool I never heard of anyone slipping their hand forward, but I have seen umpteen players use a regular slip stroke with proficiency and have used it myself periodically. What it does is cock your wrist back into the proper position, thus creating the snap naturally. English takes on a whole new dimention. Downside being a slip stroke is far more sensitive to glitching. I've found most players who use one are not the big money players. I was good friends with Jimmy Moore, who perfected the method, and I watched him butcher the twenty dollar ring games in Johnston City every time he got in them. But for big money action, in the words of the great Cecil Hall, "Alfie, grip down on that cue. It's flopping around too loose back there." Buddie's held the cue pretty tight but the way he brought his cue back and paused, cinched his wrist being cocked properly. True, sometime you had to wait an hour or so for him to pull the trigger, but what's the difference, it isn't going to be your shot anyway.
Keep it nice. Alfie
In all my years of playing pool I never heard of anyone slipping their hand forward, but I have seen umpteen players use a regular slip stroke with proficiency and have used it myself periodically. What it does is cock your wrist back into the proper position, thus creating the snap naturally. English takes on a whole new dimention. Downside being a slip stroke is far more sensitive to glitching. I've found most players who use one are not the big money players. I was good friends with Jimmy Moore, who perfected the method, and I watched him butcher the twenty dollar ring games in Johnston City every time he got in them. But for big money action, in the words of the great Cecil Hall, "Alfie, grip down on that cue. It's flopping around too loose back there." Buddie's held the cue pretty tight but the way he brought his cue back and paused, cinched his wrist being cocked properly. True, sometime you had to wait an hour or so for him to pull the trigger, but what's the difference, it isn't going to be your shot anyway.
Keep it nice. Alfie
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I cannot BELIEVE no one has mentioned the King of the slip stroke, Cisero Murphy!! Look at 9:12 to see what everyone is talking about. He even adds a significant backward pause, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxobcdPCYwE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxobcdPCYwE
Another possiblilty cold be Denny Searcy. hre he the very rponounced slip stroke and made he cue ball dance all over the place.
I used it for yers and years when playing bartables and wasthe hardest thing to stop doing I eer tried.
When I go a week or 10 days without playing iseem to natureally revert to it and really struggle withnot using it.
Buddy does have a very snug grip on that cue. His hand and fingers cover the entire butt of the cue (hardly any space in between the cue and his hand, ever). With as big as he is and as large as his hands are, you would think that he would have trouble with gripping the cue too tightly every now and then.....but NO. I guess he is just one of those big ole teddy bears that have paws soft as velvet.
wish it was a slip stroke I got back!
I wish it was a slip stroke I got back when I quit playing for awhile. I used to grip the stick all the way back at the butt cap and use a sideways flick of the wrist trying to get extra english when I was very green and dumb. Did it for a year or so and perfectly timed it will indeed make a cue ball behave like a wild child. Quit using it by the time I was seventeen so you would think that silliness would be long gone but every once in awhile when I haven't been playing and grab the cue at the very back of the butt cap and bumper . . . I played some good pool for years afterwards grabbing the cue that far back so you would think the bad habit would have a million proper shots overlaying it but no, when I least expect it some muscle memory will fire.
This is a very nice example of a slip stroke. Starting at about 9:00 is a good starting point and his hand being near the light wrap and butt cap make it easy to see. There is a bit of that slight of hand magic going on that I talked about. At first it seems like the video skipped or something.
This is a great old thread and to me what AZB should be about. Reviving it is going to cost me some hours though, going work on my slipstroke some more! Mine is a pale and pitiful version but it does have some uses. Need to rewrap the ratty old cue I am using or cut a wrap groove in my wrapless cue which ain't gonna happen.
Just thought about it, wonder what weight cue most of the slipstroke users were using? Seems like around 20oz was more common.
Hu
I wish it was a slip stroke I got back when I quit playing for awhile. I used to grip the stick all the way back at the butt cap and use a sideways flick of the wrist trying to get extra english when I was very green and dumb. Did it for a year or so and perfectly timed it will indeed make a cue ball behave like a wild child. Quit using it by the time I was seventeen so you would think that silliness would be long gone but every once in awhile when I haven't been playing and grab the cue at the very back of the butt cap and bumper . . . I played some good pool for years afterwards grabbing the cue that far back so you would think the bad habit would have a million proper shots overlaying it but no, when I least expect it some muscle memory will fire.
This is a very nice example of a slip stroke. Starting at about 9:00 is a good starting point and his hand being near the light wrap and butt cap make it easy to see. There is a bit of that slight of hand magic going on that I talked about. At first it seems like the video skipped or something.
This is a great old thread and to me what AZB should be about. Reviving it is going to cost me some hours though, going work on my slipstroke some more! Mine is a pale and pitiful version but it does have some uses. Need to rewrap the ratty old cue I am using or cut a wrap groove in my wrapless cue which ain't gonna happen.
Just thought about it, wonder what weight cue most of the slipstroke users were using? Seems like around 20oz was more common.
Hu
A nice thread to revive
I agree with Hu that this is a nice thread to revive. (Talk about a ghost thread from the past!)
If anyone wants to learn how to execute a slip stroke, see posts #63 and #64 (slip stroke tutorial parts 1 and 2, respectively) in this very thread.
I personally don't use the slip stroke anymore (for reasons detailed in those two posts). But if you've never shot with a slip stroke, I highly recommend learning it, because it will teach you things about your own stroke that will come in handy in the future, whether you continue to use a slip stroke or not, I promise.
-Sean
I agree with Hu that this is a nice thread to revive. (Talk about a ghost thread from the past!)
If anyone wants to learn how to execute a slip stroke, see posts #63 and #64 (slip stroke tutorial parts 1 and 2, respectively) in this very thread.
I personally don't use the slip stroke anymore (for reasons detailed in those two posts). But if you've never shot with a slip stroke, I highly recommend learning it, because it will teach you things about your own stroke that will come in handy in the future, whether you continue to use a slip stroke or not, I promise.
-Sean
artistic and practical
Sean,
I'm hooked on the art of the slip stroke, it is a fun skill to master. From a practical standpoint despite some people's belief that releasing and regripping the stick would lead to inaccuracy, for me it is the way to make long straight in shots when the cue ball is on the rail or just an inch or two from the rail. A tough shot to hit the cue ball accurately, very easy to get unintended masse since you are hitting down on the cue ball a little like it or not, miles of green between the cue ball and object ball, and the cue ball finds it's target like it had eyes. I think one reason is that in an awkward position we have grooved in the motion in the range of our practice stroke perfectly and with a slip stroke we stay in that range until after we hit the cue ball.
Obviously Sean has worked with a slip stroke much more than I have but for those that haven't, the slip involves just the slightest release of pressure and increase of pressure, no more than a few ounces. It has no detectable sideways impact on the back and forth path of the cue.
Hu
Sean,
I'm hooked on the art of the slip stroke, it is a fun skill to master. From a practical standpoint despite some people's belief that releasing and regripping the stick would lead to inaccuracy, for me it is the way to make long straight in shots when the cue ball is on the rail or just an inch or two from the rail. A tough shot to hit the cue ball accurately, very easy to get unintended masse since you are hitting down on the cue ball a little like it or not, miles of green between the cue ball and object ball, and the cue ball finds it's target like it had eyes. I think one reason is that in an awkward position we have grooved in the motion in the range of our practice stroke perfectly and with a slip stroke we stay in that range until after we hit the cue ball.
Obviously Sean has worked with a slip stroke much more than I have but for those that haven't, the slip involves just the slightest release of pressure and increase of pressure, no more than a few ounces. It has no detectable sideways impact on the back and forth path of the cue.
Hu
This is a little clearer view.....
Look at the 3:20 mark on this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E&feature=related
You'll see it was definitely as subtle as others have stated on here. There is another point a bit earlier where he has to do a medium-power draw and he does not slip-stroke it, he appears to start out with the grip further back. I did say "appears," so don't anybody go criticizing me - just judge for yourself.
Look at the 3:20 mark on this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKw56oAA-E&feature=related
You'll see it was definitely as subtle as others have stated on here. There is another point a bit earlier where he has to do a medium-power draw and he does not slip-stroke it, he appears to start out with the grip further back. I did say "appears," so don't anybody go criticizing me - just judge for yourself.
If it is not natural for you.....
..... then don't start trying to shoot every shot with a slip stroke. You'll find that it is not very good when jacked up to any significant degree. But it is obviously effective if you have it mastered.
..... then don't start trying to shoot every shot with a slip stroke. You'll find that it is not very good when jacked up to any significant degree. But it is obviously effective if you have it mastered.
addition instead of an edit
After going back and rereading Sean great posts 63 and 64 I wanted to edit my post but for those interested in trying the slip stroke I didn't want them to miss some new information I am adding too.
Under benefits Sean did a great job explaining in much better detail why the slip stroke has some benefits by hitting the cue ball in the same range of motion.
One thing I have to disagree with however, with a linen wrap there is no reason to need to pinch the bridge to slip a cue. Quite easy to slip the inch or two required without altering the bridge. I can't tell the difference performing a slip stroke with an open or closed bridge, there is that little difference in pressure in the grip, release, and regrip for me. When learning a slip stroke elevating the back of the cue slightly seemed to make it easier for me. As a quick test I just tried a slip stroke with the butt of the cue distinctly lower than the tip with no difficulties at all.
I am used to using "triggers" in other sports. One reason I never perforate things I don't intend to like my hind leg and left hand is that when drawing a pistol I never take the safety off until my left hand touches my right starting my two handed grip and forward push with muzzle level or near level. I deliberately built a trigger into my actions that the weak hand touching was the trigger to take the safety off. In my little bit of experimenting with the slipstroke this morning I have noticed that the slip seems to be a trigger to my body in the same way, announcing this is the stroke for all the marbles. Although it isn't as important with a slip stroke my follow through seems easier and more natural using one. I do have elbow drop on follow through, personal preference.
Hu
After going back and rereading Sean great posts 63 and 64 I wanted to edit my post but for those interested in trying the slip stroke I didn't want them to miss some new information I am adding too.
Under benefits Sean did a great job explaining in much better detail why the slip stroke has some benefits by hitting the cue ball in the same range of motion.
One thing I have to disagree with however, with a linen wrap there is no reason to need to pinch the bridge to slip a cue. Quite easy to slip the inch or two required without altering the bridge. I can't tell the difference performing a slip stroke with an open or closed bridge, there is that little difference in pressure in the grip, release, and regrip for me. When learning a slip stroke elevating the back of the cue slightly seemed to make it easier for me. As a quick test I just tried a slip stroke with the butt of the cue distinctly lower than the tip with no difficulties at all.
I am used to using "triggers" in other sports. One reason I never perforate things I don't intend to like my hind leg and left hand is that when drawing a pistol I never take the safety off until my left hand touches my right starting my two handed grip and forward push with muzzle level or near level. I deliberately built a trigger into my actions that the weak hand touching was the trigger to take the safety off. In my little bit of experimenting with the slipstroke this morning I have noticed that the slip seems to be a trigger to my body in the same way, announcing this is the stroke for all the marbles. Although it isn't as important with a slip stroke my follow through seems easier and more natural using one. I do have elbow drop on follow through, personal preference.
Hu
I agree
Certainly looks like Willie uses a slipstroke at around 3:20. The old players I knew had multiple strokes in their bag of tricks and used the best one for the shot. Pretty old school myself but I often wonder if trying to use one stroke to do all tihngs isn't a mistake.
Hu
Certainly looks like Willie uses a slipstroke at around 3:20. The old players I knew had multiple strokes in their bag of tricks and used the best one for the shot. Pretty old school myself but I often wonder if trying to use one stroke to do all tihngs isn't a mistake.
Hu
Try it...
.... glad you agree.... try it and report back whether you had the same faulty results with a jacked-up slip stroke, I would be interested to know. I think it's because the grip can change because as you slip back straighter, the angled cue drops into an ungripped open space, then comes to rest more on the thumb side or index side, causing movement and maybe even an subconscious attempt at grip recovery... spoiling the grip that you were trying to use with the slip in the first place. Jacked up, I seemed to almost always miss in one direction, so tell me if your experience is the same. It sucks to know all these things and never get paid when you teach people, you know? They wouldn't ask a golf instructor for all this free info.....
.... glad you agree.... try it and report back whether you had the same faulty results with a jacked-up slip stroke, I would be interested to know. I think it's because the grip can change because as you slip back straighter, the angled cue drops into an ungripped open space, then comes to rest more on the thumb side or index side, causing movement and maybe even an subconscious attempt at grip recovery... spoiling the grip that you were trying to use with the slip in the first place. Jacked up, I seemed to almost always miss in one direction, so tell me if your experience is the same. It sucks to know all these things and never get paid when you teach people, you know? They wouldn't ask a golf instructor for all this free info.....
More, jacked up slippin'
The thing is, when you use the slip stroke you can get your grip arm/hand forward of a vertical forearm, then you slip back. If you jack up, this creates more of a drop with hand and cue both, then the effect I describe above happens. Maybe that's why, as I noted in discussing Mosconi's draw stroke in the footage... he was a little jacked up, not much, but did not seem to slip stroke it then. He knew things we may never know..... unless we get smart and cipher 'em out.
The thing is, when you use the slip stroke you can get your grip arm/hand forward of a vertical forearm, then you slip back. If you jack up, this creates more of a drop with hand and cue both, then the effect I describe above happens. Maybe that's why, as I noted in discussing Mosconi's draw stroke in the footage... he was a little jacked up, not much, but did not seem to slip stroke it then. He knew things we may never know..... unless we get smart and cipher 'em out.
been there
Already been there. Slightly jacked up a slip stroke works fine but you reach a point where your range of free motion in your fingers is impaired when your wrist is severely cocked and a slip stroke is no longer practical.
When you are jacked up too much to use a slip stroke there are times when just releasing your grip and letting the cue slide through your hand will execute the shot quite nicely. When you are in a really uncomfortable position for some reason this can be worth a try. Might be some debate concerning legality but I read the rule book as "forward motion of the cue" which that definitely is.
Hu
Already been there. Slightly jacked up a slip stroke works fine but you reach a point where your range of free motion in your fingers is impaired when your wrist is severely cocked and a slip stroke is no longer practical.
When you are jacked up too much to use a slip stroke there are times when just releasing your grip and letting the cue slide through your hand will execute the shot quite nicely. When you are in a really uncomfortable position for some reason this can be worth a try. Might be some debate concerning legality but I read the rule book as "forward motion of the cue" which that definitely is.
Hu
slip stroke
I had the pleasure of watching Mosconi warm up for an exhibition game in the mid 60's and referee a straight pool game to 100 with a local and then do some trick shots, Willy run 91 and out off a safety. Doing trick shots, he shot the CB table length and jumped it off the end rail so high it looked like a popfly and then caugh it in the left pocket of his sport coat, no hands.
Sorry, got side tracked in an old memory.
If Mosconi used a slip stroke that day in the 60's I didn't see it and I think I would've noticed, I've played with a slip stroke as long as I can remember for the last 50+ years.
My slip stroke controls how much follow through I get, length of bridge combinded with length of slip determines length of follow through. I pretty much use it on all shots, long, short, soft, firm you name it. Jacked up, no. I do not change how tight my bridge hand is on the cue. To me the slip stroke is just natural not something I tried to develop or practice, when I start playin it just shows up.
Stroke slip, throwing the cue stick at the CB, that ought to be good for a laugh or two.
Dale (J.Dale)
I had the pleasure of watching Mosconi warm up for an exhibition game in the mid 60's and referee a straight pool game to 100 with a local and then do some trick shots, Willy run 91 and out off a safety. Doing trick shots, he shot the CB table length and jumped it off the end rail so high it looked like a popfly and then caugh it in the left pocket of his sport coat, no hands.
Sorry, got side tracked in an old memory.
If Mosconi used a slip stroke that day in the 60's I didn't see it and I think I would've noticed, I've played with a slip stroke as long as I can remember for the last 50+ years.
My slip stroke controls how much follow through I get, length of bridge combinded with length of slip determines length of follow through. I pretty much use it on all shots, long, short, soft, firm you name it. Jacked up, no. I do not change how tight my bridge hand is on the cue. To me the slip stroke is just natural not something I tried to develop or practice, when I start playin it just shows up.
Stroke slip, throwing the cue stick at the CB, that ought to be good for a laugh or two.
Dale (J.Dale)
Buddy does have a very snug grip on that cue. His hand and fingers cover the entire butt of the cue (hardly any space in between the cue and his hand, ever). With as big as he is and as large as his hands are, you would think that he would have trouble with gripping the cue too tightly every now and then.....but NO. I guess he is just one of those big ole teddy bears that have paws soft as velvet.
Joey,
I took some lessons from Buddy a few years back in Reno. I asked him about the slip stroke and he was adamantly against it. He did advocate a soft grip. He said that slipping the cue through your hand is not good because you lose control. Watching him shoot right up close was mesmerizing! That man controls the cue like no one I've ever seen and it is just effortless looking!
I used to use a slip stroke and liked it a lot. I just enjoy doing it because you can do things easily that are otherwise somewhat difficult, e.g., if you want to force follow a ball on the rail so the cue ball stalls on the rail, a slip stroke works very well for that, at least it does for me. Unfortunately, if you don't use it all the time, it becomes a little difficult to control it.