To me, your input indicates the ABP's promoter guidelines (demands?) are approaching blackmail, subject to be applied at the ABP's discretion via an undefined and undisclosed decision process.
Poo. More poo.
Allen Hopkins Sanctions with the ABP
- Thread starter ABPpros
- Start date
Poo. More poo.
Yes 10 ball.
Race to 10 - alternate break - call shot - call safety. Incoming player can return a missed shot if they desire. You lose your turn if you luck a ball in but the incoming player can return the shot if they do not like the leave.
This is as of yesterday. Who knows if the rules will change again.
I trust that Jenny may be correct in the possibilty of the IP addy of Dragon and APB posts being one and the same.
A couple of times, we have all read on the main AZ page, statements coming from the APB mentioning that the members here have no idea what they're talking about and should basically keep our opinions to ourselves.
If that is the general consensus of the APB leadership and members, maybe they should consider keeping their press releases to themselves.
A couple of times, we have all read on the main AZ page, statements coming from the APB mentioning that the members here have no idea what they're talking about and should basically keep our opinions to ourselves.
If that is the general consensus of the APB leadership and members, maybe they should consider keeping their press releases to themselves.
As a side question: Whatever happened to The Allen Hopkins Million Dollar 9 Ball Challenge? One and done due to perhaps the less than expected turn-out and pay-out?
I understand what you mean for sure.
We were out to dinner with Allen sometime ago, and the discussion of AzBilliards forum came up. We then engaged in a colloquy about this forum as well as the current events happening in the pool world at that time.
Allen, by his own admission, said he does not have the knowhow to navigate on the Internet, but he did add quickly that his son, Allen Jr., keeps him apprised of the goings-on as it pertains to the Web.
Sometimes I think Allen is better off not reading a pool forum. In fact, he's doing just fine keeping the annual SBE thriving as well as other high-profile pool extravaganzas. I have had several conversations with him about the future of pool in the United States in the past, private conservations, and he is one of the most forward-looking people I know, always thinking about how to help professional pool world survive during these tough economic times. :smiling-heart:
When it comes to Allen Hopkins Sr., he's probably the only industry member I know in this American pool world who thinks of the pool player first in his decision-making process. Sure, he's got to keep his sponsors and supporters happy, but he never forgets his roots. That's what separates him from all the rest. He's a promoter, a sponsor, an industry member, a tournament director, but he will always be a player first and foremost in his own mind, I think. :yes:
I like Allen. Can you tell?!
Thanks! I know I do not come to the forums all that often, but I will try and address and issues/questions here now as best I can...
To begin, you are correct - he does not visit forums often. In fact, he is barely ever on a computer, although I have managed to teach him how to check email often enough
Let's just say he is not much of a "computer person", nor do I really expect him to be - his talents lie elsewhere... In that regard, I am typically his eyes and voice for any online issues.I appreciate the kind words and will pass them along...
Thanks!
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And, I will do my best to try and answer any questions anyone may have on here.
To begin with, yes, we are working with the ABP for the Diamond Open 10-Ball Pro Players Championship this year, as their press release indicates. We did not issue our own press release regarding this, because, well, they did and I just posted that on our website. They issued a release, we thought it was great. Perhaps not issuing our own was an oversight - but the message got out.
Yes, my father believes that what they (ABP) are doing is a positive thing for professional players. Sanctioning the event with them is a way of showing his support. I am not privy to every detail that they discussed, and I have no need to question anything. I am confident that if my father has talked with them and agreed to work together then everything must be satisfactory and positive.
Well, like I said - I'll check back in often and try to address questions. Sorry I am not a full-time regular poster, but I hope that I can be a welcomed member and someone who can provide answers time to time.
Allen Jr.
Thanks! I know I do not come to the forums all that often, but I will try and address and issues/questions here now as best I can...
To begin, you are correct - he does not visit forums often. In fact, he is barely ever on a computer, although I have managed to teach him how to check email often enough
I appreciate the kind words and will pass them along...
Thanks!
*********** End of direct reply to quote
And, I will do my best to try and answer any questions anyone may have on here.
To begin with, yes, we are working with the ABP for the Diamond Open 10-Ball Pro Players Championship this year, as their press release indicates. We did not issue our own press release regarding this, because, well, they did and I just posted that on our website. They issued a release, we thought it was great. Perhaps not issuing our own was an oversight - but the message got out.
Yes, my father believes that what they (ABP) are doing is a positive thing for professional players. Sanctioning the event with them is a way of showing his support. I am not privy to every detail that they discussed, and I have no need to question anything. I am confident that if my father has talked with them and agreed to work together then everything must be satisfactory and positive.
Well, like I said - I'll check back in often and try to address questions. Sorry I am not a full-time regular poster, but I hope that I can be a welcomed member and someone who can provide answers time to time.
Allen Jr.
Allen Jr. nice reply, I like you already. Very professional.
kano
Thanks! I know I do not come to the forums all that often, but I will try and address and issues/questions here now as best I can...
To begin, you are correct - he does not visit forums often. In fact, he is barely ever on a computer, although I have managed to teach him how to check email often enough
I appreciate the kind words and will pass them along...
Thanks!
*********** End of direct reply to quote
And, I will do my best to try and answer any questions anyone may have on here.
To begin with, yes, we are working with the ABP for the Diamond Open 10-Ball Pro Players Championship this year, as their press release indicates. We did not issue our own press release regarding this, because, well, they did and I just posted that on our website. They issued a release, we thought it was great. Perhaps not issuing our own was an oversight - but the message got out.
Yes, my father believes that what they (ABP) are doing is a positive thing for professional players. Sanctioning the event with them is a way of showing his support. I am not privy to every detail that they discussed, and I have no need to question anything. I am confident that if my father has talked with them and agreed to work together then everything must be satisfactory and positive.
Well, like I said - I'll check back in often and try to address questions. Sorry I am not a full-time regular poster, but I hope that I can be a welcomed member and someone who can provide answers time to time.
Allen Jr.
Obviously you deal with the ABP, can you get them to answer some of the many questions that people have been asking them? They have a tendency to throw up a post and disappear.
You are correct on that
I still believe the principle behind that is what the sport needs to create big payout events... Once a few events like that could happen per year, the ball would start rolling. Winning players would have lots of money in their pockets - and be able to afford future large buy-in events (or back their friends if they wanted)Maybe it was a bit ambitious, sure, but oh well... The presumption was based on the huge popularity and payouts in poker - while of course there is a lot more luck involved - the central fact is that their payouts are huge because the entry fees are too. There is no "Added Money" in poker events, in fact, the casinos get a nice chunk of change for these events. The payouts are astronomical because players line-up out the door (literally, in some poker rooms) to drop down $1000 and more to play. Sure, the luck factor is huge - but good players still expect to win, or at least double or quadruple their buy in.
So, for example, if a top pool player could go to an event, post the entry fee, and have a reasonably good expectation to make the money, what happens?
Well, for a $500 entry fee event, they go play for a few days, make it to the money - and, lets say, pick up $2000 (4x the entry) for their efforts. Thats net $1500 over the entry (which was a moot amount - a good player "knows" or reasonably expects he will make the money. So, he/she nets $1500. After hotel, travel, expenses, etc for a few days - there is not much of a profit.
So now, lets say the entry is $5000 - all other variables the same. This same player will pick up $20,000 (4x the entry). Net $15,000 over the entry. Since hotel and expenses haven't changed - thats a nice score for a few days. Again, the entry was moot, because this player is a professional and knows/expects he will perform well and quadruple (or better) his buy-in.
Well, hope this explains my logic a bit... if players want to win more money, they gotta put more up to win from... It's what has fueled poker into where it is at now. Just works better there because any Joe can win....
I don't want to be misleading - I do not work for the ABP or have any affiliation with their actions. We are promoting an event and have this event sanctioned with them in an attempt to help promote their cause and efforts.
I cannot tell them how to conduct their business or make them visit the forums to address questions. Please don't take my statements to be representative as "coming from them", as they do not - they are my own.
What I can do is visit the forums and address any concerns about our operations, and I will try to do so - which is what I tend to do as any of our events approach.
ABP Pro's do what is Right
Francisco said on TAR he did not sign up to ABP.
Show some heart and do what is right !!!!!!
Take Francisco's name off.
He is a Hall of Famer (BCA) respect his comments.
Not likely to happens as Charlie Williams never replies.......
Francisco said on TAR he did not sign up to ABP.
Show some heart and do what is right !!!!!!
Take Francisco's name off.
He is a Hall of Famer (BCA) respect his comments.
Not likely to happens as Charlie Williams never replies.......
But Francisco's management company said he did. Who do you love?
Charlie can't start responding to things here. He'd never get off
I believe the key difference relates to rule 9.7 in the WPA (World Standardized rules) rule set:
9.7 Wrongfully Pocketed Balls
If a player misses his intended ball and pocket, and either makes the nominated ball in the wrong pocket or pockets another ball, his inning has finished and the incoming player has the option to take the shot as is, or hand it back to his opponent.
Under this rule, if no ball falls on a missed shot, the incoming player must take the balls in position. The ABP prefers the incoming player to have the option on ANY miss, regardless of whether a ball falls or not. Essentially it takes the shot/safety two way shot completely out of the game. The ABP's position is that it is more important to eliminate the luck factor of missing and inadvertently hooking your opponent.
The SBE was played this way in the past but went with the WPA rules last year (and maybe the year before, not sure). I guess they are going back to the option on any miss.
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Allen Jr
Can you answer a few simple questions?
1. Did the SBE escrow the prize money per ABP rules?
2. Are you running the tournaments per ABP rules?
3. Do the pros get seeded and if so by who's rankings?
I was planning on attending my first SBE but if you are aligning the SBE with Dragon Promotions I will not attend.
Can you answer a few simple questions?
1. Did the SBE escrow the prize money per ABP rules?
2. Are you running the tournaments per ABP rules?
3. Do the pros get seeded and if so by who's rankings?
I was planning on attending my first SBE but if you are aligning the SBE with Dragon Promotions I will not attend.
Hi, Klink! I just wanted to insert a thought to you on this thread. :smile:
I totally empathize with your stance, but I would respectfully suggest to you that Allen Hopkins has always been the captain of his own ship when it comes to the SBE. If you want to boycott the pro event by not attending because of Dragon/ABP, I understand why, but if you have never been to the SBE before, do give it a shot. Don't judge the SBE on one pro event. That is peanuts compared to everything else that's going on, believe me.
You will have multiple vendor booths with cool pool stuff, the action table which is always my favorite, and then there's the women, seniors, youth, amateur, and the pro/am tournaments going on simultaneously with the pro event. In the scheme of things, the pro event is only a drop in the bucket at the SBE.
Hope to see you there!
To piggyback JAM's input...
Allen has a long history of supporting pro-players and their attempts at professional organization. He knows what its like to fight the fight.
Allen has a long history of supporting pro-players and their attempts at professional organization. He knows what its like to fight the fight.
Hi, Klink! I just wanted to insert a thought to you on this thread. :smile:
I totally empathize with your stance, but I would respectfully suggest to you that Allen Hopkins has always been the captain of his own ship when it comes to the SBE. If you want to boycott the pro event by not attending because of Dragon/ABP, I understand why, but if you have never been to the SBE before, do give it a shot. Don't judge the SBE on one pro event. That is peanuts compared to everything else that's going on, believe me.
You will have multiple vendor booths with cool pool stuff, the action table which is always my favorite, and then there's the women, seniors, youth, amateur, and the pro/am tournaments going on simultaneously with the pro event. In the scheme of things, the pro event is only a drop in the bucket at the SBE.
Hope to see you there!
I will see if I can help:
1. The SBX has followed the rules regarding prize money as requested by the ABP.
2. The pro event (the only event that the ABP sanctioning applies to) will be run by the rules that my father and the ABP decide is best. Since our event has been going on for many years - and more specifically, we have been promoting it all year - we can not make any changes or adjustments to the format or rules at this late date.
3. The pro event will be seeded, my father will work with the ABP to determine how they want this done. Does it make a difference what method of seeding is applied? My father is wondering if you have something specific in mind?
I certainly hope you will still plan to attend the SBX... If you love pool, then this is definitely an event that should be on your calendar every year! (and thanks JAM for mentioning this as well)
I am not sure why you chose to imply our event is aligned with Dragon Promotions, I suppose because of CW's involvement with the ABP. However, the ABP is more than any one player - it is a collective voice of a group of professional players working towards a better future for ALL professional players. Allen Hopkins Productions is the sole promoter of the Super Billiards Expo, and my father decides and acts on what he thinks is best for the event, the players, the spectators, the exhibitors, and the event as a whole.
He has chosen to show support for the ABP because he believes in the fact that the pro players need to have a unified voice and a player association that is working for the advancement of professional billiards here in the US.
This Pro Event is only one aspect of the Super Billiards Expo. The SBX is a trade show that is designed to promote and advance everyone in the industry. Uniting all of the various manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, and players with the fans, spectators, and devoted enthusiasts of the game is the ultimate goal. In addition to the Diamond Open 10-Ball Professional Players Championship, we have over 200 vendor booths available, a section devoted to the American Cuemakers Association (ACA), a section devoted to the International Cuemakers Association (ICA), seven different divisions of the Amateur Players Championship event (which brings in over 1300 independent amateurs), and the TAP League Rally in the Valley Event. On top of that, we also house the WPA World Artistic Championships and the Professor Q-Ball Invitational Champion of Champions 3-Cushion event. Having the recently developed ABP involved is only a natural extension of our desire to make this event something for everyone in the world of billiards.
If you, or anyone else, would like to discuss your thoughts about this issue or any other concern of the SBX, you are welcome to give my father a call. He can be reached at (609)652-6116. Things are kind of busy this time of year, if he misses your call leave a message and he'll call you back.
So I'm now watching the SBE 10 Ball event and have to ask, what's the deal with alternate break? I thought this was being played by ABP format guidelines, which includes winner break.
Mitchell...In the post above yours, Allen Hopkins Jr. specifically said that no rule changes will be made, simply because of the addition of the ABP sanctioning. They have had this event for several years, and play by their rules, rather than those specified by the ABP. 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Mitchell...In the post above yours, Allen Hopkins Jr. specifically said that no rule changes will be made, simply because of the addition of the ABP sanctioning. They have had this event for several years, and play by their rules, rather than those specified by the ABP.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott, I saw that but this thread was started by the ABP to announce (quoting from the OP):
Understood that the SBE has been going on for several years and they want to play by their own rules and that's perfectly understandable. Isn't that basically what every promoter wants? So since the event does not conform to the ABP's stated guidelines for sanctioning I'm left wondering what is the basis for the sanctioning? Were the top 16 seeded by the ABP? About the only thing for sure is that the incoming player will have the option on ANY miss.
It's reasonable to ask of the OP why sanctioning was granted to an event that didn't meet their guidelines when they started a thread saying it did.
I'd also be curious to see if the SBE will go to winner break next year since there is plenty of time to incorporate that change.