Kevin Trudeau hawking more books on TV...

KT would have been a 'hero' to the poolplayers...even though he is still a con man!.

Scott Lee

Scott,

Pool has a "culture" of considering con men heroes that dates back much further than Kevin Trudeau......

Just wanted to clear that up.

I do find it amusing that many "professional" pool players participate in many morally questionable activities in the effort to take off "suckers", but many of these people squealed like stuck pigs when ole Kevin started up his shenanigans with not paying the pool players on time.

Face it.. It was much the same as all the other scams Kevin participated in. He found a group of people desperately looking for a savior, and he played it to the hilt. It just did not work out in his favor, since Mike Segal basically suckered him into the whole thing, telling him there was money in pool.

I still to this day believe Kevin only payed off the players because quite a few professional players know some very violent people from their days as scufflers, and pool players aren't the sort to take getting stiffed for multiple thousands laying down.

Kevin mighta had a bad "accident" if he hadn't paid off at least the players.

The vendors, on the other hand, are not going to show up with a 9mm and "take" what they are owed, or hire someone to do so for them. :-D

Russ
 
Scott,

Pool has a "culture" of considering con men heroes that dates back much further than Kevin Trudeau......

Just wanted to clear that up.

I do find it amusing that many "professional" pool players participate in many morally questionable activities in the effort to take off "suckers", but many of these people squealed like stuck pigs when ole Kevin started up his shenanigans with not paying the pool players on time.

Face it.. It was much the same as all the other scams Kevin participated in. He found a group of people desperately looking for a savior, and he played it to the hilt. It just did not work out in his favor, since Mike Segal basically suckered him into the whole thing, telling him there was money in pool.

I still to this day believe Kevin only payed off the players because quite a few professional players know some very violent people from their days as scufflers, and pool players aren't the sort to take getting stiffed for multiple thousands laying down.

Kevin mighta had a bad "accident" if he hadn't paid off at least the players.

The vendors, on the other hand, are not going to show up with a 9mm and "take" what they are owed, or hire someone to do so for them. :-D

Russ

A perfectly logical decision on his part . . .;)
 
When something sounds too good to be true and doesn't make logical sense when viewed from a distance, the right thing to do is put more distance between yourself and the newest thing. Trudeau started out offering a pot of gold to everyone. No matter how much I wanted to believe that and wished it were true, I still had some connected brain cells and just couldn't buy it. Turns out I was right. The only good pyramids are in Egypt.
 
Poolplayers that know "unsavory characters"?...say it ain't so! :withstupid: :rotflmao1: There's a rumor that Puyat sent an "emissary" to "visit" KT. He had an empty briefcase that allegedly left "full", with at least the $500K that KT owed Efren. :yikes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott,

Pool has a "culture" of considering con men heroes that dates back much further than Kevin Trudeau......

Just wanted to clear that up.

I do find it amusing that many "professional" pool players participate in many morally questionable activities in the effort to take off "suckers", but many of these people squealed like stuck pigs when ole Kevin started up his shenanigans with not paying the pool players on time.

Face it.. It was much the same as all the other scams Kevin participated in. He found a group of people desperately looking for a savior, and he played it to the hilt. It just did not work out in his favor, since Mike Segal basically suckered him into the whole thing, telling him there was money in pool.

I still to this day believe Kevin only payed off the players because quite a few professional players know some very violent people from their days as scufflers, and pool players aren't the sort to take getting stiffed for multiple thousands laying down.

Kevin mighta had a bad "accident" if he hadn't paid off at least the players.

The vendors, on the other hand, are not going to show up with a 9mm and "take" what they are owed, or hire someone to do so for them. :-D

Russ
 
I agree with you there, and I am certainly not "sticking up" for KT. That said, your other statement implies that KT took millions out of pool...which is simply not true.

Trudeau put millions into pool from the many millions he took out first.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

When something sounds too good to be true and doesn't make logical sense when viewed from a distance, the right thing to do is put more distance between yourself and the newest thing. Trudeau started out offering a pot of gold to everyone. No matter how much I wanted to believe that and wished it were true, I still had some connected brain cells and just couldn't buy it. Turns out I was right. The only good pyramids are in Egypt.
 
Kevin doesn't force anybody to buy his books.In his Natural Cures books,
he's not writing all the ''so called cures'' but has Doctors and other
people chime in and give there opinion about the cures.
I know he was way off base to say he had the cure for Cancer but
is he right about the Drug Companys?He's a smart dude who produces
books that are not all bullsh-t.Anybody that says his books are 100%
false have obviously never read one.
As far as him getting involved in Pool,everybody knew who this guy
was before hand but was still willing to take his money anyways.
Anybody that was involved in the IPT thought this guy was the King
and thought this guy could be the saver for pool.For them to flip on
the guy just shows how hypocritical people really are.
On my final note,if anybody says that none of his cures in the book work
is a ball faced liar.
I have way more issues with my government f--king me ,then Kevin
Truedeau!
 
Never said he was a good guy you might want to reread what I wrote.
Just said he put more money into pool than anyone else, that's all I said so don't let what I didn't say get you all bent out of shape OK

Learn to read I never said that I like him, so how is your value system trying to put words in my mouth that I didn't say smart guy!

I said that he put more money into pool than anyone else ever that is all.
I also never made any bucks as you put it from him, so there you go again making assumptions.

All I did was state the facts. Have a nice day.

Yes but he put more money into pro pool than anyone else ever in history. Funny how so many put him down for that!

You may not of said that you liked him, but the last comment "funny how so many people put him down for that" clearly leans toward taking Trudeau's side.
I understand your attempt to take the other side just to create a debate, but when it comes to Kevin Trudeau, be prepared to take a lot of heat.
 
You may not of said that you liked him, but the last comment "funny how so many people put him down for that" clearly leans toward taking Trudeau's side.
I understand your attempt to take the other side just to create a debate, but when it comes to Kevin Trudeau, be prepared to take a lot of heat.

And your point is, did you have anything to add or did you just want to quote three things I said. Then you go on to say that "you understand I wanted to create a debate".

Wrong I was stating a fact that he put way more money into pool than anybody else. More players made more money when the IPT was around than any other time. Whether you or the people who like to pile on like him or not, has nothing really to do with what I'm saying.

When he came around anybody who wanted to could have checked him out, few if any did that. The IPT tournaments brought pool to a level that it had never seen before and has never seen since then, unfortunately. Did that last no it didn't which is also unfortunate. Was it exciting while it lasted I think so and I think many people feel that way.

Will a lot of people say what I'm saying probably not even if they agree. The reason for this is because as you stated I should be prepared to take the heat.

My question to you is should it concern me that a bunch of people who probably wouldn't stand up for something on their own even if they think they were right but are more than willing to pile on as a group and bum rush someone who does. I wonder if you think (any heat as you say) that is put on me by these people should be of any concern to me? Perhaps you think that I should just cow down and not state the truth. That's not the way I live and I hope you don't live that way either.

Yes I do think it's funny that everyone piles on to say how bad Kevin Trudeau and the IPT was for Professional Pool after the fact. If you take Kevin Trudeau and the IPT out of the history of pool the players and pool it's self wouldn't be better off they would be worse off, whether you want to admit it or not.

The self-righteous people who want to jump all over something or someone once something fails makes me want puke. Where were they saying what a bad guy or group something was before it failed?

In fact where are your self-righteous Holier than thou voices now? One of the best events at the Derby City is the Fat Boy Challenge. I love to watch this event and always buy the DVD's from Accu-Stats. I'll bet some of you who jumped on me for stating the facts about Kevin Trudeau watch the Fat Boy Challenge or buy the DVD's. I'll bet some of you go to the Derby City Classic or buy the DVD's, but why? Didn't Fat Boy make his money in a questionable way? Why would you ever participate, watch or purchase anything that he was involved in? Or is it that you're all waiting for something to go wrong or the money not to be there or something to happen so you as one (big brave) group can jump up and say how bad he was for pool, how you told us so, or some other equally as lame cr*p.

I'll stand up and say right now that I think it's great Fat boy is putting up half the added money for the event and that it is good for the players and the game. Not to mention it's a great event, and I'd like to say thank you. Perhaps we'll hear from the self-righteous if something goes wrong, but doubtful until then.

What either of these gentleman have done is nothing compared to: the government, big corporations, insurance companies, drug companies, wallstreet, ... and you get the picture, have done. So get over your self-righteous selves.
 
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Trudeau deserves some credit for investing in pool, and there's absolutley no question that had he prospered from it, the players would have prospered greaty with him. I admire the fact that he showed so much respect for BCA Hall of Famers, ensuring each of them at least one $30,000 payday. He also honored them by having giant pictures of legends of pool surrounding his torunament venues.

Yes, Trudeau may have been deluded by one or more persons that his investment was well-advised and he may have badly mismanaged his venture, and there can be little denying that he took advantage of players, poolrooms and pool proprietors, and conducted himself with impropriety.

..... but he rolled the dice on pool, and it might have helped our sport. Unfortunately, he not only failed to help it but hurt it quite a bit. First, he brought the relationship between pro pool and its governing organizations to an all time low. Second, he brought the level of distrust between players and pool event proprietors to an all-time high.

In the end result, I feel, Trudeau deserves some credit for what he tried to do for pool, but poor conceptualization and poor execution, in the end, let scars on pro pool that are still healing.

His actions outside the world of pool are another issue.
 
I would like to know how Kevin Trudeau brought the relationship between pro pool and it's governing organizations to an all time low.

And if you'll answer that for me you can skip the question about how he is the main cause for Global Warming.

PS. What were the all mighty governing organizations for pro pool doing that was so good that it allowed the opportunity for a figure such as a Kevin Trudeau to step in and take over in the first place, would be a good question in my opinion?

I would have to think that the relationship between these two bodies was at a fairly low state already. Many people state things as fact and then use these so called stated facts to bolster their arguments. If this was indeed the case maybe you can enlighten me as to how Kevin Trudeau brought this about. Thank you for your time.
 
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SJM,
KT deserves zero credit. The legends piece was just a smoke screen of legitimacy. Like the testimonials he uses in the infomercials. Oldest con in the books. Look at me. I own 9 homes, zero down and make 20K a month in profits. The 30K was in essence the same thing. It must be real. Look at all these hall of famer's. Nobody deluded KT. His con. His game. His rules. Some may have been in on it but he ran the show. I'm sorry but anything else is naive.

Nick

Trudeau deserves some credit for investing in pool, and there's absolutley no question that had he prospered from it, the players would have prospered greaty with him. I admire the fact that he showed so much respect for BCA Hall of Famers, ensuring each of them at least one $30,000 payday. He also honored them by having giant pictures of legends of pool surrounding his torunament venues.

Yes, Trudeau may have been deluded by one or more persons that his investment was well-advised and he may have badly mismanaged his venture, and there can be little denying that he took advantage of players, poolrooms and pool proprietors, and conducted himself with impropriety.

..... but he rolled the dice on pool, and it might have helped our sport. Unfortunately, he not only failed to help it but hurt it quite a bit. First, he brought the relationship between pro pool and its governing organizations to an all time low. Second, he brought the level of distrust between players and pool event proprietors to an all-time high.

In the end result, I feel, Trudeau deserves some credit for what he tried to do for pool, but poor conceptualization and poor execution, in the end, let scars on pro pool that are still healing.

His actions outside the world of pool are another issue.
 
I would like to know how Kevin Trudeau brought the relationship between pro pool and it's governing organizations to an all time low.

Trudeau consciously and publicly opted not to affiliate himself with either the govening bodies of pool in America or the WPA, publicly commenting that he didn't need them. Yes, this was a defining moment in our sport's history, and the IPT players supported him.

You can find countless posts in the IPT forum about why this threatened the unity within and the vitality of the game. Trudeau attempted a hostile takeover of our sport and by cutting the governing bodies who sanction profesisonal tours and events out of the loop, he ensured that even if he were to succeed, no money would accrue to a) those who help keep pool an international sport, b) those who finance all world championship events and many other events, and c) those who finance the participation of member countries in world championship events.

There has probably never been a greater disconnect between pool and the governing bodies who work so hard to maintain the international vitality of our sport than in the case of the IPT, a venture that publicly mocked the game's governing bodies and made it crystal clear that the growth of the sport was of little concern to them.
 
From the Publisher
By Mike Panozzo
Mike became editor of Billiards Digest in 1980 and liked it so much that he bought the company. He has served on the Billiard Congress of America board of directors and as president of the Billiard & Bowling Institute of America.

February: Person of the Decade
February 2010
ALL OF the discussion and debate about the players of the decade got me thinking. (Which is rarely a good thing!) Who was the person of the decade in pool? What was the story of the decade in pool?

The answer to both of those questions, of course, is simple.

Kevin Trudeau.

Let’s face it. No one made a bigger impact on billiards in the past decade than Kevin Trudeau and the ill-fated International Pool Tour.

Obviously, some will compare my selection of the infomercial king and best-selling author as Person of the Decade with Time magazine’s selection of Adolf Hitler as the Man of the Year in 1938 … a person of infamy as much as a person of greatness.

But, for all his faults (and there were many), Trudeau’s foray into pool was far more positive than those of the numerous scam artists and crooked promoters the game has endured over the years.

Love him or hate him (and I’m guessing the only people who may fall into the former category would be designated fawner Mike Sigel and the still-IPT-employed Deno Andrews), Trudeau’s mere presence elevated the sport … even if only for a brief 16 months.

Who will forget Trudeau’s initial announcement of a pro tour? At the time, Trudeau was riding a wave of success from his New York Times bestseller “Natural Cures.” Trudeau had grand plans for the sport. He spoke of a big-money challenge match with Sigel and Loree Jon Jones. Then he spoke of a pro tour with multimillion-dollar prize funds. He spoke of job security, health care plans, pension funds, dental plans and dog-walking services for the players.

And Trudeau was genius about how this great tour would come together. Trudeau alone would pick the initial 100 IPT touring pros, and he asked players to submit resumes and letters explaining why he should offer them one of the coveted spots. I always pictured road-hardened pool hustlers sitting at the kitchen table, writing letters to Trudeau in pencil, their tongues sticking out from the corners of their mouths like they were penning a Christmas list to Santa.

That, to me, was the most lasting memory of the “Trudeau Era.” The effect he had on the players was amazing. They hung on his every word, and with good reason. He boasted a tour that would launch with six tournaments and $8.5 million in prize money. Who will ever forget that first players meeting in Orlando prior to the “King of the Hill” tournament? Trudeau made attendance mandatory for all 150 IPT pros, despite the fact that only 40 would participate in the tournament. In a way, he was testing their commitment. Players were also instructed to wear suits. It was a sight to behold. Old-timers, young guns, the game’s elite men and women … all polished up and sitting at attention like school kids in church. And that’s where he dazzled the players with talk of $100,000 guarantees to every IPT touring pro in the second season.

And what an impact he had. For a while, at least, pool players stood taller and walked straighter. They dieted and worked out.

Of course, the second season never came. In fact, the first season lasted just three tournaments. And, as was well publicized, the last of those events took 14 months to pay out. Trudeau blamed the government for queering a deal that would have guaranteed the IPT’s future. Players were angry, and with good reason. The industry felt cheated as well. The list of unfulfilled promises was longer than the prize list.

Still, I can’t help but thinking about all the things that Trudeau actually did. That tends to get lost in his pool legacy.

There is no debating the fact that from the summer of 2005, when he started the IPT and sent Sigel and Jones into battle in what will likely live on as the most extravagant pool tournament ever staged, Trudeau spent more than $13 million of his own money on the players and his events.

I’ll never forget the Sigel/Jones challenge match. Trudeau spent nearly $1 million in production costs alone on what amounted to a three-hour event. He held a lavish celebrity-studded party in an MGM mansion the night before the tournament, had a red carpet, packed the stands with models. Then he paid Sigel $150,000 and Jones $75,000 for their three hours of work.

That was real.

And the King of the Hill? That nifty little event paid out $1.125 million to 40 players. And in one of the coolest gestures ever, Trudeau gave a spot to all of the living BCA Hall of Fame members, guaranteeing each $30,000 just for showing up.

Again, that was real.

What else was real? The $5 million that was paid out for the final two events. Were there problems? Yes. Do some players still feel shortchanged? I’m sure.

But I also know that Efren Reyes alone was paid $765,000 for playing in the IPT. How many years of winning every event in pool would it have taken him to earn that much?

I’m the first to admit that in many ways, Trudeau’s unrealistic business plan ended up hurting pool every bit as much as it helped. A lot of air got taken out of the pool world when the IPT imploded.

But no matter how you slice it, I don’t think there’s much doubt that nothing in the last decade rivals the impact that Kevin Trudeau had on our little world
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that Mr. Panozzo states things better than I can, so there you have it my friends.
 
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Trudeau consciously and publicly opted not to affiliate himself with either the govening bodies of pool in America or the WPA, publicly commenting that he didn't need them. Yes, this was a defining moment in our sport's history, and the IPT players supported him.

You can find countless posts in the IPT forum about why this threatened the unity within and the vitality of the game. Trudeau attempted a hostile takeover of our sport and by cutting the governing bodies who sanction profesisonal tours and events out of the loop, he ensured that even if he were to succeed, no money would accrue to a) those who help keep pool an international sport, b) those who finance all world championship events and many other events, and c) those who finance the participation of member countries in world championship events.

There has probably never been a greater disconnect between pool and the governing bodies who work so hard to maintain the international vitality of our sport than in the case of the IPT, a venture that publicly mocked the game's governing bodies and made it crystal clear that the growth of the sport was of little concern to them.

Thanks for your response. Let me ask you do you think that then or now for that matter that the governing bodies do a good job for professional pool? I, to some degree, think that the IPT might have been right in their mocking of the governing bodies of pool. Apparently the players didn't feel that they owed the governing bodies much for all that they did which I'm assuming was not a lot, if the players were so eager to jump ship and had no loyalty to them. I would guess that there was no tour with decent prize funds and that made it a simple choice for the players.

I saw that you mentioned how hard the governing bodies work to maintain the International vitality of our sport.
But I have to ask what good is that if the U.S. players can't even afford to go to International Events?
How does that help the players? Maybe I'm just dense, but I can't see it.
 
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Oh I just wanted to make a correction. I was wrong when I said earlier that Kevin Trudeau put 12 million out of his own pocket into pool.

According to Mike Panozzo from Billiards Digest he spent 13+ million out of his own pocket.

But what's a million or a million and half when it comes to sponsoring pool tournaments people put that much up all the time, don't they?

I sure the governing bodies had plenty of events lined up for the pro players back then with huge payouts and they were just about to break the news to the players when Kevin Trudeau came along, and ruined everything.
 
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Thanks for your response. Let me ask you do you think that then or now for that matter that the governing bodies do a good job for professional pool?

I saw that you mentioned how hard the governing bodies work to maintain the International vitality of our sport.
But I have to ask what good is that if the U.S. players can't even afford to go to International Events?

How does that help the players? Maybe I'm just dense, but I can't see it.

Good questions here. No doubt, it's all about one's perspective. At tmes, the WPA in particular has achieved only marginal results, but of late, they seem to have had some measure of success.

The WPA announced within the past week a 26 event calendar for the upcoming year. My initial reaction is to applaud their efforts. After all, for them to have an event every two weeks on average means that for the player willing to compete internationally, there will be a very full slate of events and a whole lot of earnings opportunities.... and that's on top of what they can earn in tournaments in their own or nearby countries.

One of the core questions that needs to be considered, and which has, at times, been debated right here on AZB, is whether the growth of pool internationally is important to American pool. After all, to nobody's surprise, nearly all of the 26 WPA events will be in either Asia or the Middle East.

I come from the school of thought that worldwide growth of the game means more money in the profession called pro pool and that this should be a good thing for all who play pro pool.

Hence, my view is that the WPA has something to show of late for its efforts. The BCA however, is much harder to make a case for, and many argue that, as a trade organization, it should not remain the American delegate to the WPA, but that's a debate for another day.

I could understand why some might feel that, because America has failed to provide a pro tour or some other vehicle or means by which American players could participate much more often on the internaitonal tournament scene, the growth of pool on the international scene is of only marginal importance. I just don't happen to agree with those who feel this way.
 
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At the end of the day,pool players go to where the money is
with not a care in the world who's money it is.The amount of money
on the IPT was so big and unheard of,this was an opportunity for the big
players that felt this is there moment for a self deserving win-fall.When
I still see the controversy in tournaments with top players ,splitting
throwing matches and so on,Kevin was just the money and thats all.
Personally i find it much more disappointing seeing the corruption that
still goes on in the pool world today without Kevin Trudeau.
The only difference between then and now is the payday is far less
now.
 
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